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Comments on news posted 2013-01-23 08:40:02: A new Google-funded survey out of Columbia University (pdf, via Ars Technica) unsurprisingly finds that those who pirate also tend to buy the most content. ..

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skeechan
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Hypocrites

It's fun to listen to the MAFIAA whiners complain about piracy when they have 'evil doers' in their own ranks; same with the DOJ. When do we get to turn their Internetz off or traffic shape them into the ground like they want to do to everyone else? Never, because they're all scumsucking hypocrites. F-em.



seamore
Premium
join:2009-11-02

will someone plz think about "Big Business"?
Must protect!J!!


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Blocking "Pirates"

I think the results are misleading. I have to believe most of us approve of copyright concepts but we disagree with how they are enforced.

An overwhelming majority of Americans don't want folks to drink and drive but if you asked them if they support that notion if it means tracking their alcohol purchases in the cloud and dispatching an officer whenever a computer algorithm suggests they might have purchased too much booze...I'm sure we'd all say no.

Even as misleading as these questions are, it's clear those polled do not want the government involved in tracking/blocking sites.

Surprisingly, 58% of those polled believe ISPs should screen activity and remove pirated files. How is an ISP going to remove files from a site they don't control? Do we want them to hire a police force and shake down sites?

I particularly like the question regarding support for blocking if it meant some legal content would also be blocked. Who answers yes to that? Isn't that like saying do you support [name your enforcement activity] if it means some innocent folks get shafted?

Other than those polled making it clear they don't want government net nannies, referencing this poll to support the notion that most don't support enforcing copyright is risky.



Nightfall
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They obviously don't know any of the pirates that I know.

I personally know many pirates who download games, music, and movies and don't spend a dime on that content. In fact, with hard drive prices getting so cheap, they download and just keep it on their network for future use.

The study is interesting though. I take the same approach to be honest. If I download a game and like playing it, I will buy it. Dishonored is a good example of that. I downloaded it, enjoyed the product, so I bought it on Steam. I have no doubt that there are a lot of people like me out there doing the same thing.

I also have no doubt that there are a lot of people like the friends I have that just download and don't spend a dime on content. I choose to believe that more of the later exists.
--
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cahiatt
Premium
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA

I'm a Pirate

But mostly out of necessity.

I can count numerous times where I've rented a movie (Blueray) and the embedded DRM or some other bogus software bug wouldn't even allow me to play it until I did some software or firmware upgrade. I just want to watch the darn movie. It is sometimes faster to just rip the movie or download it than try to fix their issue so I can play the movie I brought home from Blockbuster.

Similar issue with some software. Their anti-pirate crap has in the past broken more stuff than it fixed. Sometimes you can't get a trial version of something either. I'm not going to fork over a few hundred bucks for something I'm not sure works. I WILL try it first. If the company will not offer a trial, I will find my own..... If I like it, I'll buy it. The RIAA needs to move on.



IowaCowboy
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I pay for my content

Since iTunes launched in 2003, I've probably spent over $1000 in the iTunes Store since it launched in 2003. Not to mention the countless CDs I own. I also have a collection of videotapes, DVDs, and Blu-ray Discs that I paid for. If I want to watch a movie once, I can get it with Xfinity on demand.

Green Day, Bruno Mars, and Lady GaGa don't perform for free. They get compensated for their work and their salaries are paid by music sales.



tshirt
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1 edit
reply to skeechan

Re: Hypocrites

So a few bad employees, taint ALL efforts in an entire industry?

A pretty tough standard if applied across entire countries or species.



ARGONAUT
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reply to skeechan

said by skeechan:

It's fun to listen to the MAFIAA whiners complain about piracy when they have 'evil doers' in their own ranks; same with the DOJ. When do we get to turn their Internetz off or traffic shape them into the ground like they want to do to everyone else? Never, because they're all scumsucking hypocrites. F-em.

100% with you.
--

Hey you, out there in the cold. Getting lonely, getting old. Can you feel me?

devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA

Piracy is stealing - plain and simple

The reason there is content worth stealing is because most people pay for it. If the world went down the path of most people stealing, there wouldn't be enough money to make good content. (not all of it is good)

Similar to any type of stealing, piracy is paid for by the rest of us. What gives Pirates the right to free content?

A bank robber buys more goods with the money they stole... That doesn't justify their theft.


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to IowaCowboy

Re: I pay for my content

Not that I disagree with what you are saying but I thought startup bands get more revenue from their concerts which in turn drive music sales. But I didn't think music sales were the sweetest plum until later when(if) they get popular, their initial recording contract expires and they negotiate from a position of strength vs. luck.



cdru
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reply to cahiatt

Re: I'm a Pirate

said by cahiatt:

I'm a Priate
But mostly out of necessity.

I know what you mean. I'm a bank robber. But mostly out of necessity as well.

I can count numerous times where I've had a job and company policy or some other bogus rule wouldn't even allow me to be myself. I just want to earn money. It is sometimes faster to rob a bank or holdup a store than try to fix the policies so I can earn a living at the job I have.

A roof over your head, cloths on your skin, food in your belly...those are necessities. Being able to watch a DVD/BD/whatever is not a necessity. It's a desire. Justifying piracy as being a necessity is just silly.


ARGONAUT
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Downloading is the new radio.

A lot of people download just to hear new groups.

When Bill Clinton 'compromised' and deregulated radio in 96 that's when music died. All we have now is corporate-fed pablum.

Local groups used to cut a track at a radio station and it would get played. Now, all that's gone.
--

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AnonFTW

@reliablehosting.com

That's not what the study says at all ...

More hair on fire reporting on the Internet. Here is the text from the Ars article:

said by Ars :
The average American on a peer-to-peer network has a music library of almost 2,000 songs. Of these, 760 (38 percent) are reported to be legitimately purchased. In contrast, those who say they are not P2P users (but do collect digital music files) have an average library size of 1,300 songs. Of those, 582 (roughly 45 percent) were purchased from legitimate sources. Most of the others were ripped from CDs or copied from friends and family. [...] So as we might expect, a larger fraction of the music collections of non-P2P users come from legitimate sources.
So as a percentage - no - pirates do not buy more music. Once you factor in the lost sales due to the media the P2P user didn't buy, the percentage is even more skewed.


ArrayList
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reply to devnuller

Re: Piracy is stealing - plain and simple

no, it isn't stealing. it's copyright infringement.



ARGONAUT
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reply to cdru

Re: I'm a Pirate

said by cdru:

said by cahiatt:

I'm a Priate
But mostly out of necessity.

I know what you mean. I'm a bank robber. But mostly out of necessity as well.

If you put a dollar bill on a copy machine and made one copy or ten copies would that be considered bank robbery?
--

Hey you, out there in the cold. Getting lonely, getting old. Can you feel me?

devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA
reply to ArrayList

Re: Piracy is stealing - plain and simple

And piracy is high-seas robbery and kidnapping...

TomAto / toMAto


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to devnuller

I don't disagree but... (and I'm not justifying piracy but...)

If they couldn't pirate, would they buy? The industry has always published huge figures in terms of lost revenue but I have to think that some (perhaps most?) of the illegal activity would not be a sale if perfect DRM was possible.

I think on-line music services that allow folks to buy a song for a buck have probably done more to curtail copyright problems than the rest of the efforts.

When I grew up I used to make "mix" tapes of songs I had recorded from FM radio stations. Although illegally obtaining a digital copy might have greater sonic purity and when you want something, it's faster, I'm surprised someone hasn't taken this software and combined it with an HD FM tuner card and used it to let folks record days/weeks of OTA broadcasts and build a library.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PopCatcher


Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to Nightfall

Re: They obviously don't know any of the pirates that I know.

You can extend that many ways.

In a nutshell most of us will be willing to give some time and money to organizations that we enjoy to help them out. If that were not true than the Free to play games and the trail versions of software that has a vast majority of needed functionality would not survive because no body would ever donate or buy.



ITALIAN926

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reply to skeechan

Re: Hypocrites

Yes, if every single person in this country used Torrents, SALES WOULD SKYROCKET ! Box office revenue and DVD sales would simply explode.

Lets not watch it for free at home, lets go pay $40 at the theater, umm, for the atmosphere, and the expensive popcorn.

[/sarcasm]



skeechan
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reply to tshirt

Yeah, because they want to drop the hammer on other businesses with a "few bad employees".

F them and the horses they rode in on.



skeechan
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reply to ITALIAN926

Perhaps if the MAFIAA weren't pirating, their sales would improve. Let them clean up their own employees' criminality before complaining about everyone else or at least let them apply the same standards to themselves as they attempt to apply on everyone else.

Let the MAFIAA set an example by dropping their own Internet connectivity since they can't seem to control their criminal behavior.


Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to cdru

Re: I'm a Pirate

You do realize that there are a couple flaws in the ignorance of your come back right?

First, you are committing a criminal act, federal offense even. Copy right is a civil matter.

Second, you are stealing an actual item that has limits and can't be replaced. Electronic files are limitless.

Third, copyright infringement is more or less a victimless crime where as the victim would have absolutely no clue that something was "stolen" from him and it can be done a million times and they still would have absolutely no clue that a violation has occurred.



tln

@rockwellcollins.com
reply to AnonFTW

Re: That's not what the study says at all ...

So they consider "ripped from CDs" to be mutually exclusive with "purchased from legitimate sources"? Interesting.

It's funny, Amazon has recently upgraded their cloud player service... now when you purchase a CD from Amazon, they automatically place the songs from it in your MP3 library (I think they call it "directrip" or something like that). Exactly how is that different from taking a purchased CD and ripping it yourself?



cdru
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reply to ARGONAUT

Re: I'm a Pirate

said by ARGONAUT:

If you put a dollar bill on a copy machine and made one copy or ten copies would that be considered bank robbery?

No. But it could be considered counterfeiting.

My comment wasn't arguing the merits of pirating copyrighted works for reasons of interoperability, merely that it is not never necessary to pirate. If the video does not play, return it as defective. Or don't watch it. But don't say it's necessary as you clearly have a choice and potentially multiple alternatives or other remedies to the situation.


Majestik
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reply to ARGONAUT

said by ARGONAUT:

said by cdru:

said by cahiatt:

I'm a Priate
But mostly out of necessity.

I know what you mean. I'm a bank robber. But mostly out of necessity as well.

If you put a dollar bill on a copy machine and made one copy or ten copies would that be considered bank robbery?

That's considered a waste of paper. It is illegal to copy money in color and the same size I think. And you can only make a one sided copy.
You should read the rest of his post. It makes sense to me.
--
The adventure continues...Sanctuary....

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to AnonFTW

Re: That's not what the study says at all ...

So if the legit ones purchased 582 and the pirates purchased 760, who contributed more to the industry?

This is a simple word math problem I am sure you can figure out.

If you want to go with % as you do above lets do that as well. However, I wont try to skew the point as you do.

If pirates purchased 30% of all music sold and legit people puchased 23%, which group contributed more money to the industry?

You can only assume anything is a lost sale. For all you know the 760 files the pirates has are the only ones they would have paid for period. You can't assume that the other 1240 songs are songs they would have purchased if they couldnt download them.

Lastly, if the legit ones that you try to use the percentages on only purchased 45% of their collection, where did the other 55% come from? Oh that's right... they PIRATED IT!

Now move on.



workablob

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reply to devnuller

Re: Piracy is stealing - plain and simple

said by devnuller:

The reason there is content worth stealing is because most people pay for it. If the world went down the path of most people stealing, there wouldn't be enough money to make good content. (not all of it is good)

Being a musician for many years making nothing for my trouble I know that you could take all of the money out of Music and there would be *plenty* of good musicians still making music of high quality.

I was in the business when the old model applied and it was basically either make it big or get another job if you want to survive.

But, there is so much money to be made on non-piratable goods like merchandise and concert sales.

The music business has changed dramatically.

Now you don't have to be a Lady Gaga to get a seat at the table.

Granted you won't get rich but to be able to make a living doing what you love and exposing your art to your fans is what most true musicians want.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.


cdru
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reply to Skippy25

Re: I'm a Pirate

said by Skippy25:

You do realize that there are a couple flaws in the ignorance of your come back right?

Yeah. But since there were numerous flaws in the original premises I figured a flawless retort wasn't necessary. In the future, for your benefit, I will consider a more appropriate example for any hyperbole.

devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA
reply to rradina

Re: Piracy is stealing - plain and simple

That is the Pirate creed - "I wouldn't have bought it, therefor it is OK" I don't disagree the lost revenue numbers are inflated, but there is lost revenue and this is being made up from the ones that actually pay.

Pirates get a free ride they don't deserve. Perhaps we should call them Stowaways instead (much less sexy). They wouldn't have bought the ticket, but everyone else paid for them to ride.



Nightfall
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reply to Skippy25

Re: They obviously don't know any of the pirates that I know.

said by Skippy25:

You can extend that many ways.

In a nutshell most of us will be willing to give some time and money to organizations that we enjoy to help them out. If that were not true than the Free to play games and the trail versions of software that has a vast majority of needed functionality would not survive because no body would ever donate or buy.

Pirates are not as common as people think. A vast majority are already purchasing. Companies are surviving. Still, pirating does result in a loss of revenue. Just how much is up for debate. Its much less than the billions that the RIAA and MPAA say it is and its much more than the "nothing" that the pirates say they are.
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