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Comments on news posted 2013-01-23 08:40:02: A new Google-funded survey out of Columbia University (pdf, via Ars Technica) unsurprisingly finds that those who pirate also tend to buy the most content. ..


skeechan
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Hypocrites

It's fun to listen to the MAFIAA whiners complain about piracy when they have 'evil doers' in their own ranks; same with the DOJ. When do we get to turn their Internetz off or traffic shape them into the ground like they want to do to everyone else? Never, because they're all scumsucking hypocrites. F-em.

seamore
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Re: Hypocrites

will someone plz think about "Big Business"?
Must protect!J!!

tshirt
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1 edit
So a few bad employees, taint ALL efforts in an entire industry?

A pretty tough standard if applied across entire countries or species.

skeechan
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Re: Hypocrites

Yeah, because they want to drop the hammer on other businesses with a "few bad employees".

F them and the horses they rode in on.

Cthen

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said by tshirt:

So a few bad employees, taint ALL efforts in an entire industry?

A pretty tough standard if applied across entire countries or species.

Same goes for customers. So a few bad customers taint ALL efforts in sales for the entire industry?

Also a pretty tough standard if applied across entire countries or species and customer base.
--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek

tshirt
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Re: Hypocrites

said by Cthen:

Same goes for customers. So a few bad customers taint ALL efforts in sales for the entire industry?

Also a pretty tough standard if applied across entire countries or species and customer base.

I haven't seen MPAA or RIAA accuse EVERYONE of stealing, only those downloaders they attempt to track down.

skeechan on the other hand uses a broad brush, to imply everyone in that part of entertainment industry is corrupt.
The same standard applied species wide would make him a thief, child rapist, Nazi, drug lord (also part Dalai Lama, prostitute, republican and saint.)
CXM_Splicer
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Re: Hypocrites

I don't think that's what he is saying; he is not accusing everyone in the industry of anything. He is saying they shouldn't be going after people when they are unwilling (or unable) to stop their own employees from uploading.

ARGONAUT
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said by skeechan:

It's fun to listen to the MAFIAA whiners complain about piracy when they have 'evil doers' in their own ranks; same with the DOJ. When do we get to turn their Internetz off or traffic shape them into the ground like they want to do to everyone else? Never, because they're all scumsucking hypocrites. F-em.

100% with you.
--

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ITALIAN926

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Yes, if every single person in this country used Torrents, SALES WOULD SKYROCKET ! Box office revenue and DVD sales would simply explode.

Lets not watch it for free at home, lets go pay $40 at the theater, umm, for the atmosphere, and the expensive popcorn.

[/sarcasm]

skeechan
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Re: Hypocrites

Perhaps if the MAFIAA weren't pirating, their sales would improve. Let them clean up their own employees' criminality before complaining about everyone else or at least let them apply the same standards to themselves as they attempt to apply on everyone else.

Let the MAFIAA set an example by dropping their own Internet connectivity since they can't seem to control their criminal behavior.
silbaco
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Re: Hypocrites

People pirate at work. That's not surprising. Especially software. You can setup the most elaborate policies and filtering software. But at the end of the day, you can't control your employees.

skeechan
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Re: Hypocrites

The MAFIAA insist on the principle of "Do as I say, not as I do." No thank you.

Pirate515
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said by silbaco:

People pirate at work. That's not surprising. Especially software. You can setup the most elaborate policies and filtering software. But at the end of the day, you can't control your employees.

I disagree. While yes, you cannot control your employees, you can monitor and/or limit what they do when using their work equipment and/or connection. You can also take action against them when they do stuff that you tell them upfront you do not want them to do.

Many businesses have their corporate domains behind firewalls and internet connections for their employees proxied, filtered and monitored. For example, where I work P2P of any kind is strictly prohibited. If caught, depending on how important you are, you will either be fired on the spot or severely reprimanded. Now, there will always be a few bad apples who will try to get around whatever measures are in place, but in this economy not many would be willing to jeopardize their jobs for the ability to torrent music/movies at work. Now, that's not to say that these same people won't do it using their home internet connections.

The fact that people can freely torrent stuff from corporate domains of major music/movie/TV studios tells me that these companies either employ brain-dead system/network admins who have no clue how to secure their networks or their management simply doesn't care about this kind of thing going on.
--
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A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill...
silbaco
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Re: Hypocrites

You can always catch and punish someone, and you can block simple things like P2P or block domains and IP addresses. But I don't know of a lot of companies that actually put great amount of effort into blocking content. That's just not high on the priority list. Now with the 6 strikes, it could go up a few notches.

My guess on why copyright holders are allowing P2P traffic is that they have a valid reason to allow P2P. Probably to catch offenders who torrent their content or partner's content. And their admins are probably too understaffed to worry about someone abusing the privilege. They may catch the employees, they may not. We have no way of knowing. But I am sure downloading truly infringing content is not allowed.

tshirt
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said by skeechan:

Perhaps if the MAFIAA weren't pirating, their sales would improve.

Why do you and the story author ASSUME the **ia's were pirating?

skeechan
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Re: Hypocrites

DP

skeechan
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4 edits
Oh, it's no assumption. They were CAUGHT pirating. And it wasn't casual piracy but RAMPANT piracy. Meanwhile the MAFIAA sues people for what their employees are doing EVERY DAY. Hypocrisy of the highest and most disgusting order.

»torrentfreak.com/hollywood-studi···-121225/

»torrentfreak.com/exposed-bittorr···-121226/

And the MAFIAA doesn't just pirate movies and TV shows...they were caught stealing software as well.

»torrentfreak.com/mpaa-steals-cod···license/

Now if the MAFIAA wants to apply 6 strikes to business, let them apply it to themselves first. Their employees were caught pirating from other studios and record labels on an epic scale.

Time to traffic shape them into the ground and then disconnect their Internet connectivity for piracy. Once the MAFIAA is off the Internetz, turn to the DOJ and other law enforcement agencies that are also FULL of pirates. When their Internetz is cut off, THEN we can start looking at mom and pop cafe owner.

tshirt
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Re: Hypocrites

The "Proof" in the stories you quoted appears to IP addresses supposedly linked to the studios, something you have repeated said CANNOT be linked to any given offender, so if it's not proof for you, it's not proof for them either.
even if we accept the IP as one linked to the studio, YOU have no way of knowing if the individual there was given written permission(a license ) to download for tracking purposes.
Even if it was a rogue employee, specific regulations prohibit an employer from publicly disclosing how or why an employee was disciplined or terminated for violating company regulations and/or federal, state or local laws.
so IF it was a violation, it MAY have been dealt with in even a more punitive manner or settlement then what they attempt to do to members of the public they caught.
It's not a matter of studio employees first, it treat all equally.

If YOU have ABSOLUTE proof of violations in the US, why haven't YOU taken them to the DOJ or state AG yourself?

skeechan
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4 edits

Re: Hypocrites

Supposedly linked? The IPs belong to the MAFIAA. Meanwhile that is the same "proof" used by the MAFIAA to sue 13 year olds for downloading Happy Birthday and open access points (rogue users) are no defense. Rogue employee or not, it is the exact same same "proof" they intend to use in enforcing six strikes against mom and pop businesses that offer free WiFi, acceptable collateral damage according to the MAFIAA criminals. While it is apparently okay for the MAFIAA to steal software and engage in rampant piracy, they frown upon mom and pop businesses offering free wifi in violation of their ISP's TOS. Hypocrites of epic proportion, the lot of them.

»www.techdirt.com/articles/201301···e.shtml?

I am not the copyright holder, and not being the copyright holder I have no standing to sue or file a criminal complaint. I can only point out their hypocrisy and the hypocrisy of the shills that support them.

Meanwhile there is nothing, particularly in California where these MAFIAA members are headquartered, stopping an employer from publicaly stating why an employee was terminated.

tshirt
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Re: Hypocrites

If indeed they are "MAFIAA criminals" than YOU should report them to the proper authorities for CRIMINAL prosecution, you don't need to be a rights holder for that, just a concerned citizen.
Failing to act would be hypocritical.
and Especially in California under the labor code employers are barred from making statements about former employees, without the persons consent (given to, say a new prospective employer as part of a background check) and beyond that, state law ANY statement potentially injurious to the persons future employment without proof would bring legal action, so even expressing your opinion (which is protected) about former employees is not a good idea, UNLESS you intend to pursue CRIMINAL charges and WIN. (any CA attorney would tell you to keep your mouth shut, no matter what, even the price of winning is too high)

skeechan
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3 edits

Re: Hypocrites

Okay. I'll email the JD and the California AG but given the JD is also engaging in rampant piracy that is asking the fox to stop eating the chickens. I already notified the MAFIAA so they have no excuse for their hypocritical criminal behavior.

I am an employer in California. There is NO LAW barring employers from making statements about employees termination or work history. It happens all the time. Of course you can't misrepresent their work history or otherwise make FALSE statements but that is defamation but and has nothing to do with being an employer or not.
If you say an employee stole from the company, of course it better be the truth.
CXM_Splicer
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said by tshirt:


Failing to act would be hypocritical.

Certainly you too, a person of high moral standards who feels piracy is damaging the industry, should be obliged to contact the **AA's and the various LEAs and express your concern that their employees should be prosecuted for this behavior. The fact that you are so vocally opposed to piracy but apparently willing to give the 'enforcers' the benefit of the doubt is extraordinarily hypocritical.

tshirt
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Re: Hypocrites

Since I have no direct knowledge of any CRIME by anyone working for the RIAA or MPAA, nor do I believe the "evidence" presented in the link stories, there is nothing for ME to report.

However skeechan See Profile posts "MAFIAA criminals" in every similar thread about illegal downloading would lead me to believe either he has deep personal knowledge of CRIMES (criminal, not civil matters) having been committed.
OR
that he has delusional thoughts
OR
that his accusations are apocryphal
OR
that he believes his business or personal interests are served by the continual reparation of those stories.

skeechan
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Re: Hypocrites

The MPAA shills can spin this anyway they want. The MAFIAA was caught red handed pirating and not just a few files, but RAMPANT piracy, and refuses to hold itself to the same standards as everyone else. They are hypocrites along with the shills that excuse make for them.

ITALIAN926

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Re: Hypocrites

..... and what proof is there that any of this is true? An article from Torretfreak? PUHLEEZ now.

skeechan
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1 edit

Re: Hypocrites

Wow, guess that MAFIAA check cleared.

The fact remains the MAFIAA is engaged in RAMPANT piracy and software theft and they along with their shills that defend them are hypocrites of the highest order. The fact that the MAFIAA membership engages in rampant piracy and code theft gives everyone the moral authority to do the same against them.

When the MAFIAA decides to stop their vile criminal behavior they can start casting stones.

ITALIAN926

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Re: Hypocrites

..... and what proof is there that any of this is true? An article from Torretfreak? PUHLEEZ now.

skeechan
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4 edits

Re: Hypocrites

No genius. The data comes from Scan Eye. Torrent Freak just wrote an article about it. But don't let facts get in the way of your excuse making for the MAFIAA pirates.

»www.customer.scaneye.net/shop?na···mdb=&s=1

Put different organizations in the search field and see what IPs that they own turn up...like the pirates at Warner Bros.

NormanS
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said by ITALIAN926:

Yes, if every single person in this country used Torrents, SALES WOULD SKYROCKET ! Box office revenue and DVD sales would simply explode.

Lets not watch it for free at home, lets go pay $40 at the theater, umm, for the atmosphere, and the expensive popcorn.

[/sarcasm]

I don't spend much on DVDs, or on RIAA member CDs; but neither do I pirate stuff. My expenditure on media, ironically, tracks the MAFIAA claims of declining sales. One might think I am part of the trend driving "lost sales"; except that I don't pirate.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
ju1ce

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Re: Hypocrites

I am in the same boat. I don't purchase music cd's, I don't purchase movie dvd's and I don't pirate.

Why you ask? Cost and quality.
NOVA_UAV_Guy
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There are plenty of other options to legally obtain media which don't put a dime of revenue into the RIAA's or MPAA's pocket (or at least minimizes it). Perhaps those account for the declining revenue trend experienced by those two *cough* *cough* fine *cough* *cough* upstanding *cough* *cough* *choke* organizations.

My point, of course, is that piracy isn't necessarily to blame for all of the RIAA's and MPAA's woes. And given the evidence presented in various studies that show average spending for those who admit to pirating things is greater than average spending for those who don't pirate, I'd humbly suggest that the RIAA's and MPAA's biggest enemy is themselves - with their draconian policies, third world banana republic dictator enforcement schemes, and business model whose most recent update came when President Reagan was sitting in the Oval Office eating jelly beans.

Take me, for instance:

I don't pirate movies, or music, or television shows. I don't really feel that I have the need to do so. At the same time I also do not purchase new CDs, DVDs or Blu Rays for "political" reasons: I do not want to contribute substantially to the longevity of either the RIAA or MPAA. (Yep, I'm one of "those people" - the ones who are happy to wait a little longer to watch a movie if it helps slowly starve the MPAA to death.)

All of my movie and music purchases in the past few years have been at used CD/movie shops, with the exception of a few direct online purchases from groups like The Cynic Project. Aside from directly supporting groups I like, I get the satisfaction of knowing that my money is going to good use (helping the proprietor of a used book store) rather than contributing to freedom's demise. An added bonus, of course, is saving a few bucks on each movie or CD... which means I can generally purchase a few more.

I also use Netflix. I realize that the Evil Axis profits from this guilty pleasure, but the amount they profit is likely far less than they would have made from me if I were to buy all the movie and television series titles that I watch new. In this case, the large gain in having a wide library of media to choose from via streaming and disc offsets the negative of contributing to their profits because they don't profit very much from me. An added bonus is having the ability to stream movies and TV wherever I go. On the occasional drive between DC and Cleveland, it really helps to have streaming video to watch while driving. I revisited a couple seasons of the old TV show "Airwolf" this way last year... something that would have been much more challenging without Netflix. Of course there are also services like Pandora, and Slacker, and (my favorite) Grooveshark (best $3/month spent, IMHO). But I digress...

I rarely go to movie theaters as well, so the MPAA doesn't make much from me that way. I'm happy with the home theater setup I've got, which is far more comfortable and convenient than paying $20 for an over-salted popcorn and sugary Coke. Waiting a few months to see the latest movie really doesn't matter to me, so the investment in electronics yields far more satisfaction. And it's guilt-free satisfaction too, as my enjoyment doesn't contribute nearly as much to freedom's demise as the person who buys 50 DVDs and goes to 10 movies per year.

I have to wonder how many more there are like me out there: people who simply don't go to the movies (whatever the reason), and people who simply don't purchase new music. With the advent of music streaming sites, and popularity of Netflix and streaming from Amazon and Blockbuster, I'm willing to bet that profits are dropping far more due to legal use of legal services than illegal downloading of pirated material.

"Theft" isn't what's killing the MPAA and RIAA; the MPAA and RIAA are. And it's the first time in history that I actually support and encourage self-inflicted injuries and suicide. The faster they go, the better off we all become.

•••
rradina

join:2000-08-08
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Blocking "Pirates"

I think the results are misleading. I have to believe most of us approve of copyright concepts but we disagree with how they are enforced.

An overwhelming majority of Americans don't want folks to drink and drive but if you asked them if they support that notion if it means tracking their alcohol purchases in the cloud and dispatching an officer whenever a computer algorithm suggests they might have purchased too much booze...I'm sure we'd all say no.

Even as misleading as these questions are, it's clear those polled do not want the government involved in tracking/blocking sites.

Surprisingly, 58% of those polled believe ISPs should screen activity and remove pirated files. How is an ISP going to remove files from a site they don't control? Do we want them to hire a police force and shake down sites?

I particularly like the question regarding support for blocking if it meant some legal content would also be blocked. Who answers yes to that? Isn't that like saying do you support [name your enforcement activity] if it means some innocent folks get shafted?

Other than those polled making it clear they don't want government net nannies, referencing this poll to support the notion that most don't support enforcing copyright is risky.

Nightfall
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They obviously don't know any of the pirates that I know.

I personally know many pirates who download games, music, and movies and don't spend a dime on that content. In fact, with hard drive prices getting so cheap, they download and just keep it on their network for future use.

The study is interesting though. I take the same approach to be honest. If I download a game and like playing it, I will buy it. Dishonored is a good example of that. I downloaded it, enjoyed the product, so I bought it on Steam. I have no doubt that there are a lot of people like me out there doing the same thing.

I also have no doubt that there are a lot of people like the friends I have that just download and don't spend a dime on content. I choose to believe that more of the later exists.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

••••••••
cahiatt
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Smyrna, GA

I'm a Pirate

But mostly out of necessity.

I can count numerous times where I've rented a movie (Blueray) and the embedded DRM or some other bogus software bug wouldn't even allow me to play it until I did some software or firmware upgrade. I just want to watch the darn movie. It is sometimes faster to just rip the movie or download it than try to fix their issue so I can play the movie I brought home from Blockbuster.

Similar issue with some software. Their anti-pirate crap has in the past broken more stuff than it fixed. Sometimes you can't get a trial version of something either. I'm not going to fork over a few hundred bucks for something I'm not sure works. I WILL try it first. If the company will not offer a trial, I will find my own..... If I like it, I'll buy it. The RIAA needs to move on.

••••••••••••••

IowaCowboy
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I pay for my content

Since iTunes launched in 2003, I've probably spent over $1000 in the iTunes Store since it launched in 2003. Not to mention the countless CDs I own. I also have a collection of videotapes, DVDs, and Blu-ray Discs that I paid for. If I want to watch a movie once, I can get it with Xfinity on demand.

Green Day, Bruno Mars, and Lady GaGa don't perform for free. They get compensated for their work and their salaries are paid by music sales.

••••
devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA

Piracy is stealing - plain and simple

The reason there is content worth stealing is because most people pay for it. If the world went down the path of most people stealing, there wouldn't be enough money to make good content. (not all of it is good)

Similar to any type of stealing, piracy is paid for by the rest of us. What gives Pirates the right to free content?

A bank robber buys more goods with the money they stole... That doesn't justify their theft.

••••••

ARGONAUT
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Downloading is the new radio.

A lot of people download just to hear new groups.

When Bill Clinton 'compromised' and deregulated radio in 96 that's when music died. All we have now is corporate-fed pablum.

Local groups used to cut a track at a radio station and it would get played. Now, all that's gone.
--

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AnonFTW

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That's not what the study says at all ...

More hair on fire reporting on the Internet. Here is the text from the Ars article:

said by Ars :
The average American on a peer-to-peer network has a music library of almost 2,000 songs. Of these, 760 (38 percent) are reported to be legitimately purchased. In contrast, those who say they are not P2P users (but do collect digital music files) have an average library size of 1,300 songs. Of those, 582 (roughly 45 percent) were purchased from legitimate sources. Most of the others were ripped from CDs or copied from friends and family. [...] So as we might expect, a larger fraction of the music collections of non-P2P users come from legitimate sources.
So as a percentage - no - pirates do not buy more music. Once you factor in the lost sales due to the media the P2P user didn't buy, the percentage is even more skewed.

••••••••

axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

I too am a criminal.

I pay for my content by buying Blu-rays then I rip them while stripping the DRM to add to my home media server. That unfortunately makes me a criminal even though I have never once shared my files with anyone. CSS and HDCP are not too friendly to an owner of media.

Don't even dare suggest Ultraviolet..... (shudder)
Kearnstd
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Re: I too am a criminal.

I do not see the DMCA as a real law so I say copy away to your media server.
--
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silbaco
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Hmm....

Google funded this study. Why are the results not surprising?

••••

anon anon

@charter.com

How much more would be made

If pirates paid for 100% instead of part?

This logic is like saying it ok for me to sneak into the theater half the time because the half I do pay for is more times that what the average person goes to the movies. So the theater is still making more money from me. Well maybe but they'd make even more if I paid 100% of the time.
NOVA_UAV_Guy
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Re: How much more would be made

That's a tough question to answer. I'm sure there are many who pirate music, movies, and software who wouldn't pay anything for it to begin with and would just do without if it wasn't available. In your movie theater example would the theater owner really be hurt financially by people sneaking into the theater without paying, if those people would never have paid to see the movie in the first place?

anon anon

@charter.com

Re: How much more would be made

It doesn't matter if he's not hurt. If you are supposed to pay for acces to content and you don't want to pay then you are not entitled to access. People used to get that point. Now they think they're entitled to access if they want to pay or not.

cableties
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I am not a pirate.

I try before I buy.

Otherwise, no sale.


--
Splat

anon anon

@charter.com

Re: I am not a pirate.

said by cableties:

I try before I buy.

Otherwise, no sale.


Oh so if you download a song or movie and you like it you immediately and go buy a legit copy of it?
spartan002
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Brampton, ON

subpar

Most of the stuff now days is very sub par. No point wasting money on something not worth while.
Sukunai
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When you get past the semantics...

Each nation insists on it's own laws and the words are not consistent, but the bottom line is no one thinks governments don't lie cheat and steal as well as ignore the law, no one thinks corporations don't lie cheat and steal as well as ignore the law...

So why are they shocked that joe nobody is just as willing to lie cheat and steal as well as ignore the law.

The only games I call off limits to downloads, are put out by publishers I consider personal friends. I know the persons and being friends, well you don't steal from your friends.

Aside from that, it is a losing prospect for governments and corporations to try and make me feel bad at being better at the game than they are some times.

I ditched cable, as a service it's a rip off. I like Netflix, and I am happy to pay for it. I could be downloading yet still, but I have found it less hassle and more fun to just pay for the services I consider money well spent.

Eventually the corporations will learn that no one cares because no one needs to care. Hey, you need to consider, some of us are not into believing the whole god thing, and thus by extension his boogy man bad guy won't be coming for us later, and thus, we don't live a life filled with guilt feelings for making good use of a good thing.

I'd rather download straight from the source films rather than go to a theater. I'd be ok paying 5 bucks to get a copy of a film. Sure if we started doing that, it would really suck trying to run a theatre. Oh well, such is life.

I buy all my games as digital downloads.
I buy whatever movies and books I want online.
I rarely have any interest in brick and mortar stores aside from the bored sales clerks providing me someone to chat to on occasion.
Expand your moderator at work

djm61
Change? HAH

join:2001-06-20
Simi Valley, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

How many times...

First I bought vinyl.
Then I bought 8-tracks.
Then I bought cassettes.
Then I bought CD's.
Then I bought digital copies.

How many times do I have to pay for the same content???

Same with video!
VHS
Laser Discs
Dvd's
Blu-Rays

How many times, MafIAA, how many times???
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motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:4

Youtube is a great example

I use youtube to listen to songs and most of the time I use the lyrics videos posted by people and these have helped my choose which songs I purchase through itunes. I can't stand the ads being pushed out by vevo which is junk they are throwing artists in your face with custom backgrounds to advertise.

cork1958
Cork
Premium
join:2000-02-26

I can't touch this

This topic has been beat to death for so many years now, I can't touch it anymore.

The RIAA and MPAA just REFUSE to get with the times!
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