 MikePremium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1
 ·Verizon FiOS
Host:
W.O.W.
FairPoint
World of Warcraft
Site Tools
Verizon Wireless
| Librarian of Congress? In before dictator etc etc.
However if you unlock your phone after Sunday and get convicted.. it's 10 years of federal prison.
I suggest killing someone instead and have good behavior if you have an urge to unlock a phone.
--
"If something about the human body disgusts you, complain to the manufacturer" - Lenny Bruce
What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon. |
|
cahiattPremium
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA | said by Mike:I suggest killing someone instead and have good behavior if you have an urge to unlock a phone.
Maybe the people that write these laws? Two birds with one stone. Just sayin....
(Note to FBI: Not serious. Read into the sarcasm) |
|
 ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | yeah, okay As long as this rule remains in place, I will never buy a phone from a carrier again. My property is MY property. |
|
 elwoodbluesElwood BluesPremium
join:2006-08-30
HarperLand | Crazy laws You get less time in jail for armed Robbery, which has real victims then unlocking a phone or camping a movie.
That's why you get when you allow lobbyists to write laws. |
|
| I don't understand how they're actually going to know??
There are plenty of ways to unlock your phone, and if a company truly wants your business, they're not going to care. |
|
 TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·CenturyLink
| reply to elwoodblues
Is there any surprise with this sort of thing. When you have the RIAA using the provisions of the same law to sue people for an amount for one song shared that exceeds the total revenues for the entire history of the recording industry. The solution is the purchase your phone outright and then look for a carrier as they do in Europe. Chinavasion has all kinds of smart phones that can operate anywhere in the world and many have multiple SIM slots so you can actually run more then one carrier. Friends at work are ordering stuff from this outfit and they have been very pleased with what they are getting for such a cheap price.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption |
|
 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
 ·Comcast
 ·Verizon Broadban..
| Ownership of software and other works You may own the device but you don't own the software on it, the copyright owner does. As with software, you don't own it but you are granted a license by the developer to use it.
Same with any media, when you buy a CD or Blu-ray, you don't own it, you are purchasing a license to have a copy.
So in other words, it is a breach of the license to modify the software on your smartphone and that includes unlocking it. While you may own the physical device, you don't own the software on it and you are bound by the software licensing agreement. |
|
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon FiOS
 ·voip.ms
| reply to camelot
Re: Crazy laws This is going to have the unintended (or intended) consequence of destroying the secondary market (used) phones. This will do a few things:
1. If you can buy a phone off of ebay, CL, etc now all of a sudden you are taking a chance that by buying a phone, you now become an oulaw.
2. These new "protection" databases where carriers will be tracking "stolen" phones will be used as an intimidation tool by the mainline carriers to ban phones on their networks AND MVNO, and once they start sharing across the board.
3. Theoretically a carrier locking a phone should be illegal, because even if the phone is subsidized (leased) it is still your property. The action to make whole is the termination fee if one breaks a contract which is a CIVIL not CRIMINAL matter.
Did you hear any of the big guys complain- NO. They LOVE this, it artificially limits competition. It's like you have to scrap your 2 year old car and buy another new one (cash for clunkers), except the car still has robust economic value for many years....Guess what cars, phones, etc depreciate in value like heck in the first 2 years. I can buy a 2 year old phone that "cost" $500 for $100.
The imperial government is in the process of criminalizing civil matters so they can simply gain more control and the lobbyists use the congress and pres to be their hammer.
Copyright, etc are purely civil not criminal matters and breaking DRM is not breaking the law at all. By finding a hole in intellectual property (known as an INVENTION) that person who breaks the DRM should be filing a patent, not going to jail. Of course that is yet another way the government limits competition and the entrepreneurial spirit. And then we become Greece. |
|
| The Supremes will rule in this case.... ....which will have "trickle down" effects on smartphones and indeed every other non-USA manufactured device
Note: no decision has been rendered yet in this case.
Justices Weigh Case on Imported Textbooks
»www.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/busin···oks.html
The general rule for products made in the United States is that the owners of particular copies can do what they like with them. If you buy a book or record made in the United States, for instance, you are free to lend it or sell it as you wish. The question for the justices was whether that rule, called the first-sale doctrine, also applies when the works in question were made abroad.
The answer turns on a phrase in the Copyright Act, which appears to limit the first-sale doctrine to works “lawfully made under this title.” The lower courts said that textbooks manufactured outside the United States cannot have been made under American law and so remained subject to the control of the owner of the copyright. |
|
 Lark3poPremium
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
·Knology
| reply to ArrayList
Re: yeah, okay said by ArrayList:As long as this rule remains in place, I will never buy a phone from a carrier again. My property is MY property.
Agreed.
Don't buy a subsidized phone if you want to mod/hack it. Pretty simple really... |
|
|
|
kd6caeP2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Palmdale, CA | I've got a technical question I've got a question for anyone who knows about such things. How does a phone know which carrier it is suppose to lock to if it's a locked device as mine currently is? Even an upgrade of the phone's OS keeps it locked to the carrier, as does a phone restore.
I have an iPhone 4S, and when my contract is up at the end of this year, I'm considering switching to Verizon. If I do so, will I be able to have sprint unlock my phone, so I can use the same device on Verizon if I wish? I know plenty of folks who have unlocked GSM devices, but I don't hear much about anyone with CDMA carriers getting their phone unlocked. Correct me if I'm wrong on my understanding of this, but my iPhone 4S is a phone capable of CDMA or GSM. Currently since my phone is locked to sprint, I could not put any GSM carrier's sim into my phone and have it work. And since Verizon is CDMA, the phone will not see Verizon towers unless unlocked? I'm just curious how all this works, and what the procedure will be for me when the time comes that I do wish to unlock my phone. Thanks. Oh yeah it's silly to make unlocking your phone illegal, I mean I've already long since paid for the total cost of my phone. OK rant done. |
|
Reviews:
·Comcast
| Once again; laws created by those who don't understand. *Why is it legal for cell phone companies to make my phone run slower with apps that cannot be removed without unlocking?
=They way I see it; phone companies owe us $ for lost time that we could have been using to make money -had we not been spending time out of our lives waiting for crap to run on our phones.
What's next? -no laptop bloatware removal?
--
»www.homesystech.com
Richmond Chesterfield VA Computer Tablet Cell Phone Repair |
|
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon FiOS
·voip.ms
| reply to IowaCowboy
Re: Ownership of software and other works I work w/ copyright in software all the time. You assertions while excellent are a little off base:
1. Software are covered under intellectual property law and copyright, which means that yes you own that license (meaning the actual method of use), and it has been proven in the courts that you can resell that license EVEN if the licensor says you can't. This falls under fair use and first-sale doctorine laws which is what they are going after next.
2. Software will also contain intellectual property which may or may not be covered by patents, and this is totally different than the copyright laws.
3. Breaking DRM or protection mechanisms on software is actually a new invention and has been protected since the beginning of time. It should not be illegal to break a lock (DRM), but to use what is behind that lock illegally that is the problem. The DMCA took what was legal since the beginning of time and made a "specific" invention illegal. So this makes an inventor a criminal to limit competition, nothing more. This is NOT a common sense law, but one meant to be anti-competitive.
4. Much of the phone's software is based upon *nix and its open source variants, so there are ZERO phones out there that do not take advantage of open source software that falls under differing licensing requirements. Now imagine AT&T putting a lock on Central Park (a public park), and then telling people that you now have to pay AT&T to go into the park and use it. Do you think that people would go for that? No, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing.
I have worked for a number of software companies, and I can tell you that I am 100% on board for people paying for what they use, but I also 100% disagree with software locks and license owners telling me what I can do with the software, because the entire fact for purchasing the software is to create a new or derivative work. |
|
 a333A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon Online DSL
·Cingular Wireless
| reply to IowaCowboy
Last I checked, breach of copyright laws is not a criminal matter, but rather a civil one. Granted, it's been some time since I last bothered buying a locked device, but AFAIK, I do not agree to anything concerning the locking status of the device I am activating, either on the carrier contract or device license agreement... Locking is strictly a matter between the carrier and myself... They can choose to grant me an unlock code, or I can vote with my wallet and buy unlocked hardware (whether or not it's factory-unlocked is irrelevant.)
--
Physics: Will you break the laws of physics, or will the laws of physics break you?
If physicists stand on each other's shoulders, computer scientists stand on each other's toes, and computer programmers dig each other's graves. |
|
 skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | This isn't DRM What is the exact "digital right" they are managing by locking to a carrier? Unlocking isn't about copying or copyright at all and the phone itself isn't the property of the carrier nor is the operating system (eg iOS, Android). |
|
1 edit | reply to adampsyreal
Re: Once again; laws created by those who don't understand. said by adampsyreal:What's next? -no laptop bloatware removal?
In a word, yes.
Especially if the Supreme Court upholds Wiley v. Kirtsaeng (see post above in this thread)
Here's another view of this case
»www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/1···-sale-2/
"The government’s position was, and still is that the U.S. Copyright Act’s first-sale doctrine does not apply to goods produced and copyrighted overseas and imported to the United States — period. Costco had told the Supreme Court that the decision effectively urges U.S.-based manufacturers to flee the United States (.pdf) to acquire complete control over distribution of their goods in the American market, arguments now being made in the latest case."
Now take, for example, a hypothetical HP-branded laptop made in China or Taiwan, filled with bloatware, whose copyright is 'owned' by a non-US company - perhaps a HP foreign 'partner' or perhaps even HP's own Irish (not picking on the Irish) subsidiary. You decide to remove the bloatware and HP has an 'alarm' system which phones home and tells HP that you've removed something that provides HP with additional revenue (ie. selling your page views or whatever to a 3rd party). HP sues you for lost revenue and damages - or more likely just sends you an extortionate "copyright troll" letter offering to 'settle' out-of-court for $10,000. |
|
skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | reply to adampsyreal
Oh no, they understand completely. They read all those extra zeros on those campaign contributions and understood what was expected of them clear as crystal. |
|
skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | reply to MaynardKrebs
Re: The Supremes will rule in this case.... So this means GM can tell you whether or not you can resell your truck since it was made in Canada. Great. |
|
| reply to skeechan
Re: This isn't DRM I usually buy unlocked to begin with, but my kid lives in the EU. She can use any unlocked GSM so I can give her my old ones.
I unlock and root just to get rid of carrier crap, entertainment of all types, social media of all types. No DRM involved, dammit.
There are quite a few weather apps, astronomy apps, nature apps that simply don't run on a dumb phone.
Some movie named Inception or something like it was included on some TMO phones. I guess it was on the SD card - but I formatted my card first and wouldn't know. But some were looking for it. That would involve DRM, I suppose. So would music if the app is installed by the carrier. |
|
| reply to skeechan
Re: The Supremes will rule in this case.... said by skeechan:So this means GM can tell you whether or not you can resell your truck since it was made in Canada. Great.
And any car manufacturer can prohibit you from 'tuning' the engine computer to alter any parameter which can improve performance.
They could even claim that installing OEM or aftermarket parts is not allowed. |
|
