dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2013-01-25 09:01:47: A German Judge has ruled that broadband subscribers have the right to receive compensation from their ISP for outages because Internet connectivity is an "essential" part of life. ..


JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL

1 recommendation

A right?

Correct me if I'm wrong but for it to be a "right" it must fall under the "Bill of Rights" and it's amendments. The term "right" is WAY over used.
One doesn't have a "right" to drive an automobile, one has a privilege etc.
kerya666

join:2002-12-20
Valrico, FL

Re: A right?

said by JimThePCGuy:

Correct me if I'm wrong but for it to be a "right" it must fall under the "Bill of Rights" and it's amendments. The term "right" is WAY over used.
One doesn't have a "right" to drive an automobile, one has a privilege etc.

Well it is in Germany, Finland, France...your interpretation of how it is or should be here because "Bill or Rights" or whatever document has no meaning there.

The way I see it if I pay taxes on roads then I should have a RIGHT to use them provided I can physically and mentally handle it (not severely handicapped etc.) Privilege? What government is my master and parent that I should get a privilege? Just because they try to claim it is a privilege to have one up on me does not mean I agree.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
Not a right - I lean more to a luxury, and if pushed maybe it could be called a utility under a stretch of that term.
LostInWoods

join:2004-04-14

Re: A right?

I don't see it being much of a stretch to call broadband access to the internet a utility similar to phone service or power, but not certainly not a right. And with being a utility could and perhaps should come some quality of service regulation, since for most of us there are at most two methods of broadband internet access.

leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

Re: A right?

said by LostInWoods:

I don't see it being much of a stretch to call broadband access to the internet a utility similar to phone service or power, but not certainly not a right.

Phone, power and television (was originally radio) have already been considered "essential" previously and now Internet access is treated in the same way. I don't know how well the German definition of an "essential part of life" compares to the US legal definition of a "right" (there may be overlap, but I don't think they are truly equivalent). From what I know about Germany, things considered "essential" may be subsidized (or fully paid for) for social security recipients and a landlord may not prevent a tenant from owning "essential items" or receiving "essential services". There are also restrictions on the repossession of goods from people in financial difficulties (for example: one working phone and one working television has to remain in the home because of their status as "essential" items).
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
i could argue the same for running water in the 1800's , power in the early 1900's, telephone in the early to mid 1900's

civilization moves on technology moves on
like it or not
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: A right?

You can survive without internet, telephone, and power. You can survive without running water too, but not without water in general.

They sound luxuries to me.

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

Re: A right?

civilizations decided other wise

what you think doesnt matter if the majority think other wise
Telco

join:2008-12-19
You do realize that you are on an tech forum.
Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by JimThePCGuy:

Correct me if I'm wrong but for it to be a "right" it must fall under the "Bill of Rights" and it's amendments. The term "right" is WAY over used.
One doesn't have a "right" to drive an automobile, one has a privilege etc.

The Tenth Amendment makes it pretty clear.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Anything not prohibited is technically a right.

It's only been since we started getting right wing interpretations of governance that suddenly only things exhaustively enumerated in the constitution and its amendments are "rights".

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

Re: A right?

said by Angrychair:

said by JimThePCGuy:

Correct me if I'm wrong but for it to be a "right" it must fall under the "Bill of Rights" and it's amendments. The term "right" is WAY over used.
One doesn't have a "right" to drive an automobile, one has a privilege etc.

The Tenth Amendment makes it pretty clear.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Anything not prohibited is technically a right.

It's only been since we started getting right wing interpretations of governance that suddenly only things exhaustively enumerated in the constitution and its amendments are "rights".

As opposed to left-wing interpretations of governance that suddenly even rights exhaustively enumerated are not really rights?
Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: A right?

said by R4M0N:

As opposed to left-wing interpretations of governance that suddenly even rights exhaustively enumerated are not really rights?

Like...?

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

Re: A right?

said by Angrychair:

said by R4M0N:

As opposed to left-wing interpretations of governance that suddenly even rights exhaustively enumerated are not really rights?

Like...?

Just the question being asked already shows me on which side of the debate you fall on... We've already deviated from the topic far enough. I'll leave it at that.
Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: A right?

said by R4M0N:

said by Angrychair:

said by R4M0N:

As opposed to left-wing interpretations of governance that suddenly even rights exhaustively enumerated are not really rights?

Like...?

Just the question being asked already shows me on which side of the debate you fall on... We've already deviated from the topic far enough. I'll leave it at that.

That's a cute cop-out.

If you didn't have a point in the first place why bother replying?

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo

join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

Re: A right?

I see... You wanted a sucker to fall for your trolling on a tech website and I fell for it hook, line and sinker.
MURICA

join:2013-01-03
Pro Tip: Your only "right" in life is the right to death. And even science will be able to take that away from us eventually.

ANYTHING else you define as a "right" is entirely subjective. So you might as well include Internet access in those definitions.

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

Re: A right?

seems thats not even a right in some places
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Right or not

It doesn't really matter what it is classified as in the US. We could classify it as a right too, but rights no longer matter in this country.

tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
kudos:36

outages

I don't know about it being a "right", but if you are paying for a service and not getting it because of an outage, then the customer should be compensated.
gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL

Re: outages

said by tim_k:

I don't know about it being a "right", but if you are paying for a service and not getting it because of an outage, then the customer should be compensated.

You're not paying for a guaranteed service though. Check your terms of service. They aren't guaranteeing it to you in any way shape or form. Now if you were paying for a business class service with a service level agreement (and monthly figures much higher dollar wise), sure. But for residential service, no..
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
kudos:36

Re: outages

said by gunther_01:

said by tim_k:

I don't know about it being a "right", but if you are paying for a service and not getting it because of an outage, then the customer should be compensated.

You're not paying for a guaranteed service though. Check your terms of service. They aren't guaranteeing it to you in any way shape or form. Now if you were paying for a business class service with a service level agreement (and monthly figures much higher dollar wise), sure. But for residential service, no..

But that only goes so far. What happens if the outage goes on for a month, or more? There has to be some minimum service level expected. Usually what you're saying applies to upload/download speeds which are best effort. But to have no service at all, I think there's another standard that applies there.
--
RIP my babies Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07, Beamer 7/24/08, & Bows 12/17/94-10/11/09
gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL

Re: outages

I would agree only to the extent that if the customer notified the company.

The customer has some kind of responsibility as well. If they don't like the service, then they should leave it. Before it becomes something ridiculous like not have service for months, not calling in, and then demanding a refund for that time. (I see this all the time, and a router reboot fixes the issue)

You would be amazed at the level of individuals that somehow think every outage is caused by the ISP. And where the individual claims zero responsibility. Or that a "tech" is supposed to come fix every issue. Or refund them because the power went out last night.

There is a balance, and that line normally is very simple.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

Eddy120876

join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY

So if its good for the people then is it bad for all?

Thats what i keep hearing the Right and tea baggers talk . I mean when the government give its people the tools to improver themselves and call its a right then is socialism. Yet when a big corporation shoves down their product upon you then is ok because is from a company and not from the government. Look right wingers we get it you believe anything that comes from the gov is bad and everything from a corporation is good. Sadly thats not the case since you know most companies don't give a damn as long as you keep paying and keep your mouth shut . Look I agree with the Germany decision telecommunications (like the internet) should be part of your rights because with the internet you can find anything you need for school,work and life so you can improve it(or destroy it..is your right ). Also about they having to pay you for the outages then I'm ok as long as its not weather related since we can't predict the weather 100%. Also incase you are asking why should they pay simple because if I'm paying for it but if i stop paying then for say lost my job then i lose my service.