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Comments on news posted 2013-02-05 14:49:33: Back in late 2009 both AT&T and Verizon decided to make it mandatory that smartphone owners must have a data plan, even if you have no interest or never actually use data. ..

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cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to KrK

MVM

to KrK

Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but...

said by KrK:

For example, I bought a new GS3 off a guy on Craigslist for $480. I have a $30+tax prepaid plan. So, assuming I only used the phone for two years and then replaced it, that would be $20 a month + service.

Or you can go say with T-Mobile Value plan where a GS3 costs $99 up front and $20 a month for 20 months for a total of $499 or...$20.79 over 24 months + the price of service. So it requires $380 less up front but $19 over the 2 year contract.

No it's not $30, but you also aren't comparing plans apples to apples. If a $30 plan suits you, that's great. But some people want or need more minutes or data.
TheGuvnor9
join:2006-06-23
Beverly Hills, CA

TheGuvnor9 to fiberguy2

Member

to fiberguy2

Re: Signing for contracts

Ding Ding, best answer ever. If you don't want to get fleeced don't sign a contract. Buy a pad, download skype, add some $$ just in case and talk away on free wifi.
Expand your moderator at work
wkm001
join:2009-12-14

wkm001

Member

Prepaid

Page Plus Cellular (Verizon MVNO) does not require a data plan to use a smart phone. But they do require you to use a 3G phone.

It is a real catch 22, those tech savvy enough to find Page Plus and cut their bill also want to use the latest phones. Hopefully Page Plus will get 4G access soon.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA to rradina

Premium Member

to rradina

Re: Eh

That's connectivity here and there, not persistent connectivity like a smartphone is designed to work with.

Lone Wolf
Retired
Premium Member
join:2001-12-30
USA

1 recommendation

Lone Wolf to cdru

Premium Member

to cdru

Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but...

said by cdru:

said by Lone Wolf:

Even funnier than the math game with data plans is the math game with subsidized phones. People are paying up to $1600 for a $400 phone because they bought a subsidized phone for $1 ( or so they thought).

Can you give an example, please?

Here's a quick example.

»Does Anybody Ever Look At What They're Buying?

I just went to the verizon site and entered all of the info to purchase the 16gb Siii with 2gb data and unlimited talk/text.

It came to $200 for the phone and $120 monthly for the service.

Now comes the fun!

120 month x 24 months = $2880 add $200 for the phone and you have spent $3080 plus taxes and other fees for 2 years for cell phone and service.

I can buy the phone outright anywhere for around $600 without a service plan. Personally I would only buy a GSM phone (worldwide) rather than the CDMA model (US only). Then I would buy an unlimited everything service plan from an MVNO for between $40 to $60 monthly.

$50 month x 24 months = $1200 plus $600 for the phone and I will have spent $1800 (no taxes or anything else added) for 2 years for cell phone and service.

rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina to BiggA

Member

to BiggA

Re: Eh

An iPod is the same thing without the phone and millions of folks love them despite having only WiFi connectivity. Next?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to cdru

Premium Member

to cdru

Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but...

Yes, that is another option, but again you're in for the two years, pay $579 for the phone. It's a good middle ground option, T-mobile seems to be more flexible with it's offerings than either Verizon or AT&T, but of course their service isn't nearly as universal.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

SimbaSeven to rradina

Member

to rradina

Re: Eh

said by rradina:

An iPod is the same thing without the phone and millions of folks love them despite having only WiFi connectivity.

Same with the Samsung Galaxy Player's. It's a Samsung Galaxy without the CDMA/GSM module, antennas, or SIM card readers.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to Lone Wolf

MVM

to Lone Wolf

Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but...

said by Lone Wolf:

said by cdru:

said by Lone Wolf:

Even funnier than the math game with data plans is the math game with subsidized phones. People are paying up to $1600 for a $400 phone because they bought a subsidized phone for $1 ( or so they thought).

Can you give an example, please?

Here's a quick example.

»Does Anybody Ever Look At What They're Buying?

But that example is not what you said. You said they are paying $400 for a phone, but then you use a $600 phone as an example.

Your plan pricing might have been correct when you posted your message, but 2GB data+unlimited voice on Verizon is now $100+taxes/fees.

Your $40-60 MVNO plan doesn't include LTE data as Verizon's does. And depending on which MVNO you go with, you may be stuck with just 3g speeds, not even HSPA+.

Also depending on which MVNO, data or voice coverage may be less then what a MNO's coverage is, due to the MVNO not having the same roaming agreements or favoring one network over one that has a better signal at a location.

Going with a carrier directly isn't a requirement for everyone. But a MVNO doesn't meet everyone's requirements either. Just saying people are paying $1600 for a phone is a little bit of a characterization of the situation.
notambiguous
join:2005-03-24

1 recommendation

notambiguous to KrK

Member

to KrK
said by KrK:

The reason is simple, Americans buy everything on credit and are mortgaged to the hilt.

Not this American. We use Verizon mainly because they have coverage in the places we need it.

Walk into a Verizon store, point at a phone and ask "I want to just buy that phone outright so how much is the monthly plan cost?" vs "I want that phone but don't want to pay up front so how much is the monthly plan?" or "I have this phone I want to use, how much is the monthly plan?". Then note there is no difference in monthly cost. Carriers like Verizon are quite disingenuous about phone subsidies.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA to rradina

Premium Member

to rradina

Re: Eh

Then get one of those if you don't want to pay for a data plan.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

But some folks might want voice everywhere, but not data. So they have to buy a feature phone, get voice everywhere and then carry an iPod for everything else they want in their pocket? Is this your position?
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

Correct. Really, everyone should have a smartphone though. They are so essential these days. And what makes them useful is their persistent data connection.
XJakeX
join:2005-03-05
Coventry, RI

XJakeX

Member

Pre paid since day one

I have been using prepaid minutes purchased as I needed them, since my first Motorola flip phone. bought online. Later I bought a better flip phone (GSM) directly from Motorola. It was all on Cingular for most of that time, but later became AT&T. The minutes could be used for phone, text, or data. Of course, using data on GSM was always slow, and frustrating with the tiny screen, but it was there.

Early last year, I finally upgraded to a smart phone bought off eBay, shortly after which, AT&T announced that smart phone users could no longer use pre paid minutes to access the Internet. A separate data plan was now required. I was a little upset, but that access had never been a big deal for me up to then, so I declined. With Wi Fi at home, at work and hundreds of places in between, I have had all the access I needed.

After reading this, I wonder if I am now going to be "hunted down" and forced into a data plan. If so, I may have to (now illegally) unlock my phone and switch carriers, or it might make Walmart's Straight Talk look very attractive.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

1 recommendation

rradina to BiggA

Member

to BiggA

Re: Eh

We'll just have to disagree. A persistent data connection makes them more useful but to say they are useless without one doesn't make sense to me. Further, to have a carrier require a data plan based on the phone is an indication that more competition or regulation is needed.

Can you imagine cable companies forcing folks to subscribe to an HD package because they own an HD-capable TV?
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

They do require you to get an HD package in order to get an HD box. It's a terrible idea to let people have smartphones with PPU data, and then they come in crying when they have a ridiculous phone bill.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Requiring an HD package to get an HD box means you want HD channels.

PPU: That's still forcing a data plan on smart phone users. The issue is smart phone owners should be able to have a voice-only plan.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

No they shouldn't. That's a support nightmare, and there's no reason to do that in the first place. The point of the smartphone is persistant data.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

We just disagree and if the carriers continue with the same approach, they might be faced with regulation.

It isn't a support nightmare unless the carriers do something boneheaded like allow data transfer without a data plan and thus the thousand dollar surprise bill at the end of the month. If that's what they do then they have created their own support nightmare.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

AT&T's system blocks MMS when you block data, because they use the same APN. Also, why would they spend money to support something that decreases revenue by a tiny amount in order to support a minuscule but vocal minority? It makes no sense, and the whiners just need to shut up and get with the program.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

No data plan, no MMS. No extra cost. A paying customer is a good thing and if they don't want data but they are willing to pay a bit more for a voice plan with no data (but obviously less than voice + data or why bother), that's money in the bank. Why wouldn't a carrier want a profitable, paying customer?
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

OTOH, they probably are able to push more people up to the $20 data plan than they lose, so they end up making more money, the people have a better user experience, everyone wins.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Perhaps but lots of folks are defecting to MVNOs. Other than the horrid iPhone issues (having to use a T-Mobile SIM to setup the APN), it's the same network, just a lot cheaper. If the MVNO is still making money, wow, ATT is making a killing.

Given all the snow... sing this to Walking in a Winter Wonderland.
Regulation ringing, are you listening. More expensive plans, carriers are christening. A beautiful sight, we're happy tonight. Baby bells are being born again
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

MVNOs have data service, so it wouldn't be getting around the requirement for a data plan.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Yes but it's so cheap, who cares! I'm using Straight Talk on my iPhone for $42.50/month. I still have one iPhone on ATT with a grandfathered 4GB tethering plan but when I had both together, it cost $158/month with a 25% corporate discount! To think I paid that for over four years! The remaining iPhone may be moving soon as long my ST experience continues to be uneventful (other than the crappy swap-SIM method to setup the APN). That was total bullshit -- more of ATTs consumer friendly services.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

It's good for a single user who wants to keep their phone for a long time. Otherwise, contract plans are often cheaper and you get refreshed every 2 years.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

SimbaSeven

Member

said by BiggA:

Otherwise, contract plans are often cheaper and you get refreshed every 2 years.

Um.. Ya, right.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina to BiggA

Member

to BiggA
You mean at least two users. Both my iPhones on ST would be $85/month. About half what I was paying before. Granted, no tethering, no visual voice mail but that's the trade off. With the savings I can get a hotspot with a separate contract if I want and still save money.

And if my phone gets too old, I can always do another subsidy contract to refresh my phone. For me, my iPhone 4 is good and should be for at least a couple more years. No need to pay ATT those two years since the rate doesn't go down when I finish my contract. That's where the problem is. If my rate dropped when the contract ended, I'd stay. But it doesn't. ATT didn't give me any incentive to stay -- especially when ST uses the same damn network.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA to SimbaSeven

Premium Member

to SimbaSeven
If you have four lines, and refresh them all every 2 years, contract is legitimately a lot cheaper than ST. For a single user, ST is a lot cheaper, although the true price when you factor in the hardware is around $67/mo.
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