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Comments on news posted 2013-02-13 08:22:00: Comcast's fourth quarter earnings indicate that the cable company almost managed to not lose video subscribers on the quarter, but still shed 7,000 anyway. ..

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gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4

bad link Karl

»www.cmcsk.com/releasedetail.cfm?···D=739834

also while they lost some video subs, video revenue went up.
--
I'm better than you!


newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
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Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
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1 recommendation

said by gar187er:

also while they lost some video subs, video revenue went up.

It's not hard to increase video revenue when you raise prices twice a year


bbeesley
VIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5
said by newview:

It's not hard to increase video revenue when you raise prices twice a year

Video revenues are up 2.5% or about $1B from 2011 to 2012 so the tactic seems to be working for them financially.

NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast

You think they'd figure it out...

Subscribership for video is flat (at best) or declining (at worst). Subscribership for broadband is growing.

And yet they still insist that "cord-cutters" aren't impacting their business, that Hulu and Netflix are inconsequential, and insist on keeping miserly control over as much content as possible...

Does anybody else see anything wrong with this picture? In many ways, wouldn't Comcast be much better off by embracing this trend and offering IPTV services of their own which could be set up to integrate easily with Windows Media Center, XBMC plugins, AppleTV, etc.? Intelligence... I guess I'm just expecting too much from their leadership...
--
The only difference between Bush and Obama is the group they're wasting our taxpayer money on. It's time to elect responsible legislators.


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
reply to newview

Re: bad link Karl

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh you went there lol


bbeesley
VIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to NOVA_UAV_Guy

Re: You think they'd figure it out...

said by NOVA_UAV_Guy:

And yet they still insist that "cord-cutters" aren't impacting their business, that Hulu and Netflix are inconsequential, and insist on keeping miserly control over as much content as possible...

I would expect that they are right....given the limited amount of content, especially Sports related, and the effort required to setup, I suspect that the majority of video sub losses are to competitors like DirectTV, Dish, AT&T or Verizon.

turnerbrewer

join:2011-11-22
reply to NOVA_UAV_Guy
I'll second that. The pay TV business model is on life support. A company like Apple or Intel need to pull the plug...


tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
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reply to newview

Re: bad link Karl

said by newview:

said by gar187er:

also while they lost some video subs, video revenue went up.

It's not hard to increase video revenue when you raise prices twice a year

Yet most people continue to pay, so they feel it is worth the price.


tshirt
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Snohomish, WA
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1 recommendation

reply to turnerbrewer

Re: You think they'd figure it out...

Please note Apple's model is a pay per episode/season (pretty expensive if you watch more than a couple shows) and nothing realtime so sports and current events are out.

Intel is starting a service which sounds like Netflix but so far might be redbox or even a blockbuster of a fail.
Even Google fiber (which some believe to be the holy grail of broadband ) chose a standard catv video subscription model.


NormanS
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reply to tshirt

Re: bad link Karl

said by tshirt:

said by newview:

said by gar187er:

also while they lost some video subs, video revenue went up.

It's not hard to increase video revenue when you raise prices twice a year

Yet most people continue to pay, so they feel it is worth the price.

And for those of us who don't think it is worth the price, all the Xfinity direct mail goes directly to recycle.
I am not a "cord cutter"; I never had a cord to cut, and never will.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


NormanS
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reply to tshirt

Re: You think they'd figure it out...

said by tshirt:

Please note Apple's model is a pay per episode/season (pretty expensive if you watch more than a couple shows) and nothing realtime so sports and current events are out.

As contrasted with the waste of many money for a broad selection of mostly similar channels with similar shows, when you only watch a couple of shows; and no live sports.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


IowaCowboy
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Winning the war on Cord Cutters

They should waive caps if the subscriber subscribes to expanded basic or higher. I'd be bored without cable. I like to watch Fox News, Weather Channel, and other things.

The reason broadband prices are lower if you subscribe to cable or phone is they still have the same infrastructure costs whether the subscriber is an HSI only customer or subscribes to all the services offered by the MSO so their business model is cable TV subsidizes broadband.

I tried Netflix and I never used it. I found the cable boxes getting more use.

In my opinion I think Netflix is engaged in unfair competition as they are piggybacking on Comcast's infrastructure offering Pay TV at a much lower price than Comcast even though Comcast has the costs of maintaining infrastructure. It would be like Amazon selling electronics in a Best Buy store (using their floor space) at half the price of Best Buy and not paying Best Buy for use of their floor space. There are two forms of competition, fair (which is ethical) and unfair (which is unethical).
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.

NOVA_UAV_Guy
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reply to bbeesley

Re: You think they'd figure it out...

I can see your point. However, to assume that a certain percentage of people aren't leaving them and the satellite providers behind for Netflix, Hulu, and the like would be a mistake.

Streaming media is getting easier and easier to set up, especially with Roku, smart TVs, and nearly point-and-click apps like PlayOn. XBMC and Plex come to mind as well, for people with a little more technical inclination and an extra PC. Thanks to their Windows-friendly binaries, even people like my senior citizen aged parents have media servers in their homes. (Granted, I was the one that set it up for them... but they could have set it up themselves.)

I hear what you're saying about sports events (and potentially local channels, if your reception with an antenna isn't the greatest). Services like Aereo at least have the potential of filling the gap for local channels... and sports events too, if you care about following the local teams.

ESPN does support streaming from their web site, if you are a subscriber to certain ISPs. If cord-cutting gets even more popular, I can see ESPN providing direct-to-user subscriptions in the future for streaming too - as well as other live event sports channels. There's a potential for greater per-subscriber revenue with the direct-to-user model as well, as ESPN eliminates the cable/satellite middle man and gets their cut of the profits too. I suspect that eventually you may see regional sports networks leverage this model as well.

A couple years ago I wouldn't have considered doing any cord-cutting. Today I feel that I'm on the cusp of doing so. I've amassed a fair number of movies and TV shows on my home media server, subscribe to Hulu and Netflix, and plan to subscribe to Aereo when it becomes available in the DC area.
--
The only difference between Bush and Obama is the group they're wasting our taxpayer money on. It's time to elect responsible legislators.

NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium
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reply to IowaCowboy

Re: Winning the war on Cord Cutters

I see where you're going but your analogy doesn't hold up. At best, Netflix using Comcast's connection to provide user-requested content is akin to someone having a package ordered from Amazon delivered to them in Best Buy's parking lot.

An ISP is paid to be a dumb pipe and provide data requested by their users - their customers. It doesn't matter whether this data is a web page, a YouTube video, a Netflix movie, or anything else. Allowing ISPs to build walled gardens (or, in this case, "paywalled gardens") violates the basic principles of network neutrality.
--
The only difference between Bush and Obama is the group they're wasting our taxpayer money on. It's time to elect responsible legislators.


tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
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reply to NormanS

Re: bad link Karl

I understand that, I've always been a limited basic (OTA is not useable at my location) because I can't see spending the money on "endless channels". for the last 5 months we've had a blast plus promo which added digital preferred HD channels for about $10 a month. While there are a few channels we like, we fell into the pattern of a half dozen shows we actual watch, not worth the $70+ that will be charged next month, so the STB goes back and we become limited basic/hulu+/Netflix customers again.

But it is a choice, and MOST seem unwilling to walk away/reduce their consumption. (sort of a video obesity/ compulsive viewer, an effect that MANY premium luxury services depend on to upsell non- Necessities )


newview
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reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

Yet most people continue to pay, so they feel it is worth the price.

... and those of us who DO drop their cableTV are immediately dinged $15.00 extra per month for HSI because we refuse to subscribe to their crappy cableTV.


tshirt
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Snohomish, WA
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reply to NormanS

Re: You think they'd figure it out...

As in my post above "it's a choice" but the limited number of shows/channels watched is human nature even with thousands of available choices you/most will pare it down to a few favorites that they regularly watch.
As far as sports there are plenty shown even on limited basic/OTA for a casual fan, it's a rabid addict that MUST have EVERY sports channel- the reason for the premium price supporting a hugely overpaid industry (as bad or worse than other parts of the entertainment industry IMHO)
and yet, still cheaper then a single trip to the stadium per year for football or a few basketball or baseball games or soccer matches.
TV and CATV IS the cheap way to view sports.


tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
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reply to newview

Re: bad link Karl

then drop the HSI too.
cable is finally getting the pay back for the years of investment in building an almost ubiquitous plant using private money, something that required billions in subsidies for the Telco to do.

No one forces you too WATCH their crappy TV channels.


LightS
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX
reply to NOVA_UAV_Guy

Re: Winning the war on Cord Cutters

He'll never get that. Every post related to cable, he posts the same thing.


newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
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reply to tshirt

Re: bad link Karl

said by tshirt:

then drop the HSI too.

When the Comcast broadband monopoly in my area is finally broken that is EXACTLY what I intend to do.

said by tshirt:

cable is finally getting the pay back for the years of investment in building an almost ubiquitous plant using private money, something that required billions in subsidies for the Telco to do.

In MY area Comcast was given local tax incentives 35-40 years ago to build out ... and then when those were removed the price increases began ... now my area is one of the HIGHEST in the nation for basic cable service. When do I get "pay back" for tax moneys I paid for Comcast to expand in my area?

said by tshirt:

No one forces you too WATCH their crappy TV channels.

... and I'm not going to spend $20 a month for basic cable to save a $15 a month "so-called-discount" either.


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
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Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
said by newview:

said by tshirt:

then drop the HSI too.

When the Comcast broadband monopoly in my area is finally broken that is EXACTLY what I intend to do.

said by tshirt:

cable is finally getting the pay back for the years of investment in building an almost ubiquitous plant using private money, something that required billions in subsidies for the Telco to do.

In MY area Comcast was given local tax incentives 35-40 years ago to build out ... and then when those were removed the price increases began ... now my area is one of the HIGHEST in the nation for basic cable service. When do I get "pay back" for tax moneys I paid for Comcast to expand in my area?

said by tshirt:

No one forces you too WATCH their crappy TV channels.

... and I'm not going to spend $20 a month for basic cable to save a $15 a month "so-called-discount" either.

I doubt there is a monopoly, just no other company has chosen to serve your area.

Can you prove they got tax incentives? (really, I'm curious I have NEVER seen a case where a CATV provider was paid to build out, in most cases the cableco made huge payments of fees, and franchise benefits to the city/area in order to be allowed to build out.) IF they were paid I would guess some citizens DEMANDED it of the local Gov't and probably had to fight the other "don't need it" voters to get it passed. I don't think you ever get a refund for any unwanted gov't programs or I'd be a rich man.

Yes showing as a discount on the HSI has caused the misunderstanding that it is to penalize HSI only users.
If you look at as a $15 single service cost (i.e. doesn't get re-added for a second or more service) it shows how little they charge for the limited basic content.


tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
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reply to NOVA_UAV_Guy

Re: Winning the war on Cord Cutters

said by NOVA_UAV_Guy:

I see where you're going but your analogy doesn't hold up. At best, Netflix using Comcast's connection to provide user-requested content is akin to someone having a package ordered from Amazon delivered to them in Best Buy's parking lot.

The parking lot is still Best Buy's Private* property and it would be reasonably and legal to charge Amazon (or fedX) a fee for using it for delivery

The argument against Netflix was really about their CDN provider L3 which attempted to avoid standard port cost by mixing their transit business with their CDN business.
Netflix's didn't really do anything wrong (other than believe/back L3's bluff to provide CDN services so much cheaper than others in the market.
The ISP (ComCast in that case) wasn't as dumb a pipe as you believe and resisted funneling Netflix's deliver costs through L3 to ALL CC customers, rather than the relatively few(at that time) that actually used Netflix, CC saw the future where everyone's transit and CDN costs were pushed to end users equally, rather than the individuals paying for outside services paying the full cost INCLUDING delivery.

Think of an apt. complex that pays for every tenant's deliveries and then bills the average amount to ALL tenants, heavy users love it, those in the small apts(low tiers) who order little or nothing are subsidizing the shop/ship-o-holics in the other units.
Hardly the fairness the Network Neutrality implies.

*actually a mall/land leasing company which charges BB a high cost per square foot for exclusive use of the store and semi exclusive use of X number of nearby parking spots FedX could contract with them directly, but BB would want to pay less for the parking lot.


bbeesley
VIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5
reply to NOVA_UAV_Guy

Re: You think they'd figure it out...

said by NOVA_UAV_Guy:

I can see your point. However, to assume that a certain percentage of people aren't leaving them and the satellite providers behind for Netflix, Hulu, and the like would be a mistake.

I absolutely agree that some customers are cutting the cord. I just don't think the number is statistically significant enough to be more than a blip on the marketing department's radar.

They are more concerned with controlling the losses to the satellite and telco competitors today

will that change in the future? Likely yes, but a lot has to change in the market. Some company needs to get retransmission rights on enough content and then figure out a way for their potential subscribers to obtain it that is dirt simple enough for the average Luddite to install easily.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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reply to tshirt

Re: bad link Karl

said by tshirt:

I doubt there is a monopoly, just no other company has chosen to serve your area.

If by, "monopoly" we mean a company using predatory pricing to drive the competition out of business, AT&T and Comcast are not monopolies.

But wireline services tend to be "natural" monopolies, in that once an incumbent has built out an area, any competitor faces the same cost to overbuild, but has to try to convince the incumbent's customers to change. The Pacific Telesis Group tried to overbuild TCI, here. Wound up in dire financial straits, such that SBC, nee Southwestern Bell Telephone, bought them and sold off the cable infrastructure to AT&T Broadband Internet. Neither Pacific Bell, nor AT&T actually signed up cable customers. In the end, AT&T spun off ATTBI, and both TCI and ATTBI were bought by Comcast. So we have a duopoly (SBC, dba AT&T and Comcast); except for some rare cases where true competition exists.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
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Grand Rapids, MI
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1 recommendation

reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

said by newview:

said by gar187er:

also while they lost some video subs, video revenue went up.

It's not hard to increase video revenue when you raise prices twice a year

Yet most people continue to pay, so they feel it is worth the price.

I have been paying for cable TV and internet for a while now and have no plans to remove it. Yes, its only Digital Preferred, but the price is fine by me for now. I crave live sports, and the crappy internet feeds are not enough to have me cut the cord.

Now, if I lost my job or if times were tough, I would be cutting the cord more aggressively than I am now.

In the end, like it or not, television continues to be something that many consumers enjoy. The $100 price point for cable and internet together is what most customers can live with. Especially since the cost of doing something else, such as go to the bar or go to a movie, are even more expensive.

Everyone has their vices. Mine is good internet and enjoying live sports on TV. Other people smoke, drink once a week at a bar and pay a $30 bar tab, or go to a movie with the family and drop $40 for a night. I am sure if cable TV isn't your cup of tea, there are other things you can spend money on and there isn't a wrong answer here. Unless you are shooting up Heroin.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


tshirt
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Snohomish, WA
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1 recommendation

reply to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by tshirt:

I doubt there is a monopoly, just no other company has chosen to serve your area.

But wireline services tend to be "natural" monopolies, in that once an incumbent has built out an area, any competitor faces the same cost to overbuild, ...

Ahh so you get it.
The cost of a single plant is incredible and takes many years to pay off.
building/overbuilding a second plant means splitting the customers and so the provider needs to charge twice as much (assuming a 50/50 split) to yield the same return on that same huge sunk cost. and being smaller hurts the negationing power with content producers increasing that expense too.

So customers don't necessarily benefit from multiple plants.
and the dumb pipe model people here promote of forcing a single plant to carry multiple competing services without rewarding the investor who paid for the original build, assures that new funding for upgrades will not happen meaning users will get stuck with old school technology and little reduction in price.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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said by tshirt:

Ahh so you get it.

Maybe. If cable were regulated by the state PUCs, it would be closer to the "natural monopoly" envisioned by the telco regulators. But cable goes beyond providing TCP/IP connectivity, and is a content delivery conduit for the entertainment industry. I don't want Hollywood crap; a decent TCP/IP connection will suffice. It can't possibly cost Comcast so much to distribute TCP/IP over the Last Mile as to justify the $44.99 price tag for "Performance"; my DSL provider throws in telephone with Internet for that price!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
reply to IowaCowboy

Re: Winning the war on Cord Cutters

Piggybacking?

Do you ever post anything that makes any sense? The internet is a collection of nodes. Peers. Netflix has to pay for their internet service to connect to other nodes. Comcast subscribers have to pay for their internet service to connect to other nodes.

Comcast subscribers transfer data from Netflix's nodes, in addition to many others. Netflix sends data to Comcast subscriber's nodes, in addition to many others. Your analogies about Amazon and Best Buy are ridiculous and nonsensical. I would try reading a book about the history of the internet, how it got started and how it works.

By your logic, dial-up internet providers were engaged in unfair competition with the ILEC, because some people may have used their internet connection for voice chat.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
The whole discussion is silly. Ide be willing to bet most people that subscribe to netflix also subscribes to cable tv. I know i do along with every single person i know also does. In other words netflix doesnt hardly compete with cable tv. I know maybe 10 to 15 people that use netflix. Every single one of them also subscribes to cable tv.


tshirt
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1 recommendation

reply to NormanS

Re: bad link Karl

Sure it's a bit more expensive than the Telco, the plant is relatively new, and was built without the gov't subsidy.
It is however far more capable (bandwidth wise) in return.
that makes it not always affordable to everyone, and yes as the CATV broadcast side phases out the HSI side has and will become more expensive as well as maybe the phone (even though it seem expensive compared to straight/third party VoIP, it still can undercut POTS with NEAR similar qualities and reliability.)
for the Hollywood/entertainment side, the model is changing but will move slowly until there is a proven replacement capable of replacing at least as much revenue as they currently get/forecast.

The idea that you will get the same product MUCH cheaper just because it's delivered IP rather than broadcast is wrong (it's actually much more expensive to deliver.
in true ala carte really popular stuff but expensive to make stuff (lobster) will be VERY expensive, and cheap to produce products (floor sweepings and mystery "meats") will be less plus the delivery cost. The very expensive maybe a better value to those that can pay for it, as a lower % of the total is delivery.
Unfortunately nothing will be really cheap.