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Comments on news posted 2013-02-13 10:18:20: A new bill is being proposed in Georgia that would ban towns and cities from deploying their own broadband -- if there's at least one person with a 1.5 Mbps downstream connection anywhere in a census block. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

Sign up for Semi Fiber-Hood

If enough people speak up, they just might FORCE AT&T to bring them Uverse. Why do they have to be forced? Its ridiculous.


Androidian

join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

It's time for some community activism

This is kind-of intended for Karl, but also looking for some general comments and input from others here as well...

It occurs to me that one way DSLR could help people in this country get better broadband speeds is through the development of a community broadband activism toolkit. In addition to being a voice of reason on key issues like creation of municipal broadband, we could develop something - links, online tools, additional forums, and other things - that could be used by people to begin discussing topics like creating municipal broadband with the public and our elected officials.

I'm certain that I'm not the only one out here who sees the value in something like this.
--
The only difference between Bush and Obama is the group they're wasting our taxpayer money on. It's time to elect responsible legislators.



DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

AT&T and Monsanto

Two worst corporations on American soil.


ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to Androidian

Re: It's time for some community activism

I'll take it a step further. Why not seek to organize a grass-roots group to promote better broadband service in the United States? Call it something like Citizens for Our Broadband Future, and set up a forum so people can get organized, first, on a national level and then within states and communities. All the work can't be done online--there will eventually need to be face-to-face meetings on the local level, but an online forum is a great place to start.



pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Doesn't Think It is Fair For Government To Help

Why does AT&T feel it is not fair for the Government to help the locals when they have received Billions in Federal aid dollars over the years? A lot of this aid was to provide service to rural under-served areas.

What about the Wire America program the FCC is pushing? That is Federal money going to private companies. Are they against that also?
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


dfxmatt

join:2007-08-21
Evanston, IL

welp

where are all the people stating that "there's clearly competition here"?
Elray?



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to pende_tim

Re: Doesn't Think It is Fair For Government To Help

said by pende_tim:

What about the Wire America program the FCC is pushing? That is Federal money going to private companies. Are they against that also?

No, because they can get to that money. They don't want muni broadband because ultimately its competition for subscribers. Either current subscribers, potential subscribers, or future subscribers (if they ever decide to bring broadband to that location).

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2
reply to pende_tim

said by pende_tim:

What about the Wire America program the FCC is pushing? That is Federal money going to private companies. Are they against that also?

Not if private industry is doing it. Legislation like this is introduced to prevent the public from competing with private industry. Other legislation is introduced to ensure public offerings are done in a fair and equitable manner for competition with the private sector.


Lark3po
Premium
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
reply to DataRiker

Re: AT&T and Monsanto

said by DataRiker:

Two worst corporations on American soil.

One of those is the worst and the other is definitely in the top 5 imo.

Androidian

join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dfxmatt

Re: welp

Well, there *is* competition out there already if one is in the market for absurdly crappy Internet service...

Personally, I tend to be a very big supporter of the free market and competition. I don't see anything wrong with municipal broadband as a player in the ISP space, as long as it does not receive any special favors which could hamper the competitive landscape. If this is the case, municipal broadband could actually improve competition by providing an additional choice - which is always good for consumers.
--
The only difference between Bush and Obama is the group they're wasting our taxpayer money on. It's time to elect responsible legislators.


silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

Muni

If people want faster broadband, let them start up an ISP. With their own money. After all, bandwidth prices are falling and deploying fiber is supposedly much cheaper these days. Or at least there are countless people here who live and breath by that mentality when it comes to why the telcos should deploy fiber.

Problem here is, people want something for nothing. They want their local government to foot the bill. I have to agree that private sector companies shouldn't have to compete with the government. If there is truly need enough, people can start their own ISP or start a cooperative or something of the sort. They can create competition if that's what they want. Nothing is stopping them.



gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

1 edit
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: Sign up for Semi Fiber-Hood

Uverse wont be much help since they wont necessarily get faster speeds with it.
They forcibly switched us to Uverse and do not offer faster speeds than 3Mb, down the street people can get 6Mb. The same as it was before Uverse.

The only thing new Uverse offers here is a buggy router/modem combo that hijacks your browser with no bridge mode unless you hack it.
--
Let them eat FIBER!



toby
Troy Mcclure

join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA
reply to silbaco

Re: Muni

said by silbaco:

If people want faster broadband, let them start up an ISP. With their own money. After all, bandwidth prices are falling and deploying fiber is supposedly much cheaper these days. Or at least there are countless people here who live and breath by that mentality when it comes to why the telcos should deploy fiber.

Problem here is, people want something for nothing. They want their local government to foot the bill. I have to agree that private sector companies shouldn't have to compete with the government. If there is truly need enough, people can start their own ISP or start a cooperative or something of the sort. They can create competition if that's what they want. Nothing is stopping them.

The government is their own money.

People are willing to pay.

Saying people should start their own isp is like saying people should build their own power station if they want cheaper power . . .. most people don't know how to do this.

Is there a data line to feed this isp?

Do you consider satellite high speed internet too? 56k X2 modem dialup?

Another case of the, "I got mine, we don't need any help for others"


Brian_M

join:2004-06-19
Manchester, GA
Reviews:
·Charter
·Windstream
reply to silbaco

said by silbaco:

They want their local government to foot the bill.

Umm... where, exactly, do you think that money comes from? Thin air? Might be time to learn about how a government is funded, especially your local government.

I was part of a 5.9mil county project (IT dept for a library renovation) in Wyoming from 2007~2009. Every last cent came from a $0.01 sales tax increase. *I* would gladly add a one or two cent added tax to have a municipal ISP option.

Mostly, I feel like having the OPTION is what's important though. Why install a law stopping someone from doing something that would benefit a community?


Brian_M

join:2004-06-19
Manchester, GA
Reviews:
·Charter
·Windstream

1 recommendation

@#$@#%#@!@^%ing worthless companies

Just called my rep... voice mail only though. Plus an email and I'll draft a fax here shortly as well.

I can't believe AT&T/Windstream. Hell, Windstream CAN'T offer over even 1Mbps in my community because it was so oversold (I'd often see 0.01Mbps from 3pm~way after I was in bed), but they Claim it was 6Mbps.

Sickens me.



DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to openbox9

Re: Doesn't Think It is Fair For Government To Help

said by openbox9:

said by pende_tim:

What about the Wire America program the FCC is pushing? That is Federal money going to private companies. Are they against that also?

Not if private industry is doing it. Legislation like this is introduced to prevent the public from competing with private industry. Other legislation is introduced to ensure public offerings are done in a fair and equitable manner for competition with the private sector.

Large corporations by extension of lobbying are no longer "private" entities.

Even more, this is done for the sole reason of screwing the common lay person, to the benefit of the elite.

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

2 edits
reply to Brian_M

Re: Muni

The idea behind a lot of these projects it that they will turn a profit and pay themselves off. That may or may not happen. Either way, people are not willing to take the risk of the liability, hence is why they want to start a muni. They also want the bill to get footed by the people who have no intention on ever subscribing, such as older couple who are quite happy without the internet should the muni lose money, which it probably will.


Androidian

join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to silbaco

said by silbaco:

If people want faster broadband, let them start up an ISP. With their own money.

Precisely.

People = community
Their own money = taxpayer funds, which is technically the community's money

I don't necessarily think that a municipal ISP has to run in a manner that provides Internet service to all residents in a community as part of their tax bill. They could do this as a start-up using taxpayer funds as a long-term loan to be paid back, and charge the equivalent of user fees for each person who receives access. Access could be priced at a break-even point, as governments have no need to run with a profit-centered orientation. At the end of the day, the net cost to the taxpayer base as a whole would be zero.

It's clear in many circumstances that for-profit companies won't bring high speed to certain areas. They clearly don't feel that it's profitable (or is profitable enough to meet their target margins), and in many of those cases they're probably right. I see no problem with local governments and possibly others stepping in to provide service where these for-profit companies won't, and also see no issue with them stepping in to provide a competitive alternative to Comcast and the like in areas that are presently being served. This can only increase competition, which ultimately benefits consumers.
--
The only difference between Bush and Obama is the group they're wasting our taxpayer money on. It's time to elect responsible legislators.

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
reply to toby

Not knowing how to to something is not an excuse. If you want it, you learn.



Bodybagger
Premium
join:2010-03-30
Saint Matthews, SC

Leave it to Slowstream

I don't know about AT&T but Windstream?! Yeah... just take a look in the forums and see what Windstream customers have to suffer through. They know you don't have a choice and if you did, their customer base would be zero in areas like this.


ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
reply to ISurfTooMuch

Re: It's time for some community activism

Wee need to form Consumer Broadband Modernization PAC (dawt cawm)!


ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·ooma
·Verizon Broadban..
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Brian_M

Re: @#$@#%#@!@^%ing worthless companies

said by Brian_M:

Just called my rep... voice mail only though. Plus an email and I'll draft a fax here shortly as well.

I can't believe AT&T/Windstream. Hell, Windstream CAN'T offer over even 1Mbps in my community because it was so oversold (I'd often see 0.01Mbps from 3pm~way after I was in bed), but they Claim it was 6Mbps.

Sickens me.

Took them 2 years, but TimeWarner, AT&T and Windstream successfully got their Muni-Banning laws passed here in NC.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

An actual broadband map?

Speaking of which.

How about »bmap.su ? Pretty raw, but some nice numbers. :-)



whiteshp

join:2002-03-05
Xenia, OH
reply to pende_tim

Re: Doesn't Think It is Fair For Government To Help

It's not that they truly "believe" it's unfair. It's the reality that they can spend enough money to pick and chose who gets elected. That their CEOs get elected to the state and federal government, making as much money for their corporations as possible, and returning to their companies to pick up a big fat checks for a job well milked. They write the laws now and own the news to frame it however they want. Anyone who disagrees with their practice is just framed in the media to the public as PURE EVIL.
--
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the corporations discover that money can elect representatives to vote themselves a monopoly, buy media to blame 'The Godless' and forced price inflation on the public.



whiteshp

join:2002-03-05
Xenia, OH
reply to silbaco

Re: Muni

This was already tried. Incumbents own all the major backbone feeds and peering points. As soon as someone competes with them in a single market they raise the backhaul rates until they can bankrupt them. Most of the start ups in the 90s found this out the hard way.

No private company CAN compete with a monopoly. They have regulatory capture and they can use their extensive investments to destroy any private company in a single market. Nothing stopping them....
--
--
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the corporations discover that money can elect representatives to vote themselves a monopoly, buy media to blame 'The Godless' and forced price inflation on the public.


silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

True enough. But muni's are not any more immune to this problem than anyone else.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2
reply to DataRiker

Re: Doesn't Think It is Fair For Government To Help

said by DataRiker:

Large corporations by extension of lobbying are no longer "private" entities.

What are they?
said by DataRiker:

Even more, this is done for the sole reason of screwing the common lay person, to the benefit of the elite.

Yes, that is the only reason


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: Sign up for Semi Fiber-Hood

said by ITALIAN926:

If enough people speak up, they just might FORCE AT&T to bring them Uverse. Why do they have to be forced? Its ridiculous.

Because it's all about Returns need to be greater than cost.

Do you think AT&T or any other company would be willing to spend 10k to lay a run of cable/fiber 500 feet to just 1 to 10 customers?
I don't think they will, because I think they look short term, even though they know long term they can recover that 10k expenditure in about 10 years or less. Depending on what type of services the people would sign up for.

Investors don't like to see high expenditures for low returns. And that's what it's about. Keeping investors happy, and your pockets fat. Who cares if a few million people miss out on Broadband?*

*An interesting read is the post about the lady people want to see head the FCC. She makes a few decent points at how bad things are here in the US compared to elsewhere.
Why can you get a fast line in South Korea for 50 bucks a month, but that same line in the US will cost over a hundred bucks a month?
Is it because the business mode is so different between the two countries? Or something else? Or both?
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


Eddy120876

join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY
reply to ke4pym

Re: It's time for some community activism

Im on board with that idea if it becomes a reality



IowaCowboy
Want to go back to Iowa
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Would never pass in Massachusetts

The state of Massachusetts is actually getting involved in broadband deployment by helping deploy broadband in areas that Comcast/Verizon won't touch. While Massachusetts has excellent broadband availability (Verizon FiOS in the eastern part of the state and Comcast DOCSIS 3.0 in Western Mass) there are still unserved areas, particularly in rural Western Mass outside the Pioneer Valley (Springfield/Holyoke/Northampton/Amherst). Many of the communities in Franklin, Berkshire, and parts of Hampshire county lack broadband or have limited connectivity. I think there are 17 cities and towns in Western Mass that do not have broadband at all and the state is stepping in to make it easier to build the networks. Even if a town has a cable TV plant, they cannot deploy broadband if their is no backhaul between the headend and the rest of the Internet. That is why Verizon is probably hesitant to deploy FiOS in the Pioneer Valley is they would have to build backhaul between the existing FiOS plants and Western Mass. There is a big rural area between Worcester and Springfield. I personally think Verizon should sell its Western Mass Wireline assets to AT&T as Enfield, CT is a short distance away and they have U-Verse, which would be easier to expand into the Pioneer Valley than FiOS as they could build it out without the huge gap between the deployment clusters.
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.