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Comments on news posted 2013-02-15 09:01:32: Verizon and AT&T want to get out of maintaining or upgrading the tens of millions of users they currently have on aging DSL -- so they can focus on higher profit wireless services. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


Darknessfall
Premium
join:2012-08-17
kudos:6

Stupid

Well... someone's surely stupid



timcuth
Braves Fan
Premium
join:2000-09-18
Pelham, AL

Who's Next?

If (when) this happens in Alabama, I guess I'll be off the Internet. I'll be damned if I'll go to Charter.

Tim



bolt
End of the line DSL sucks.
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Charlestown, IN
kudos:1

If this happens in Indiana, I am truly screwed.


pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..

If providing service was profitable AT&T wouldn't leave

If providing service in Kentucky were profitable, AT&T wouldn't want to leave. There is often a duopoly in most areas for wired Internet. Usually a telephone company and a cable company. Of the two, it is probably easier to be a cable operator.

We need to better understand the economic decisions AT&T or Verizon make. Assuming AT&T wants out, and it is profitable to provide service to Kentucky, shouldn't another company be ready to move in?
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.



wizkid6

join:2002-03-31
Opelika, AL

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to timcuth

Re: Who's Next?

I think they (AT&T) already lobbied here. The result was a requirement to have the citizens approve any referendums before a city can get into the video/phone/hsi biz. See Georgia for the result of thieir lobbying succeeding.

And if they've upgraded (or plan to upgrade) your area with IP-DSL, then they won't dump you area. They upgraded Opelika.



gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

2 recommendations

Karl and the Behemoth

And Karl swings his sling stone with deady accuracy to the behemoths knee. As he goes in for the coupdegrace the behemoth stands back up, run karl run!
--
Let them eat FIBER!



Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

1 recommendation

And there is no reason for AT&T to not try

and do this to everyone they can screw without it being a PR disaster.

We have so many sheep here and elsewhere that love screaming about our "Free Market" then either dismiss the fact that AT&T is basically re-writing the laws (well, major Corps not just AT&T) to help them strictly benefit for a few more bucks) and outright stopping any and all competition against them.

Not sure what exactly is "Free" about that



Suntop
Premium
join:2000-03-23
Fairfield, MT
Reviews:
·3Rivers Communic..

1 recommendation

If this do not stop

We will lose our free market. Step 1 Lobby hard to change laws. Step 2 Get law passed in their favor for total control. Step 3 Profit!!

Welcome to the Corporate States of America

WE BETTER STAND UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!



nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI

Do they really want out or what?

Attention att, your immunity doesnt extend to screwing over cities towns or whole states!



whiteshp

join:2002-03-05
Xenia, OH

1 recommendation

reply to Darknessfall

Re: Stupid

Not stupid.... just has a pocket full of cash. It's pure revolving door politics. Nobody else has a voice anymore.


decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1

2 recommendations

said by whiteshp:

Not stupid.... just has a pocket full of cash. It's pure revolving door politics. Nobody else has a voice anymore.

When the supreme court ruled that corporations was seen as people to our congress it has been down hill ever sense for the worker in this country.... Not to mention crap like this :-/


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Massachusetts would never pass such a bill

When Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont were sold to FairPoint, I heard from a VZ tech that Western Mass was supposed to be part of the deal but it was shot down by the state. This state would be more likely to pass a compromise bill that would allow the telcos to hang up on copper if the addresses affected are passed by equal or better service (like cable or FiOS).

I get better service from Comcast anyways as CDV has voicemail but Verizon does not at the Indian Orchard (543) exchange. I would not take a 543 number on a bet as those are all poisoned by debt collectors calling in multiple languages as those numbers are heavily recycled. I personally think Verizon should get another prefix for the Indian Orchard exchange.
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.



Trident

@myvzw.com

Unconnectivity

You know, there are folks that never even got DSL from ATT in western Kentucky. They come to within 1/4 mile from my neighborhood. Nobody else can serve us b/c ATT owns the phone lines, and that's that. West Kentucky Rural Telephone got a huge bundle of $$ from the USDA & installed miles of fiber, yet here we sit with nothing. They even laid fiber down gravel roads in Henry County, TN sometimes going a mile in between customers.



PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

It's dead Jim...

POTS and DSL are all but dead.

* Cable is eating DSL for lunch in terms of speed.

* Copper is expensive to maintain and, in technical terms (not financial business terms) wireless transport is a better medium than copper in most instances.

Yes, we would all love fiber to the home (hugs FIOS) but if its not going to happen, its not going to happen and holding on to the remnants of copper/dsl are not going to change that.
--
Add a signature here


axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to pandora

Re: If providing service was profitable AT&T wouldn't leave

Selling LTE is *more* profitable. Getting cheap spectrum from the cable co in exchange for virtual monopoly is more profitable . Why have 5% margin when you can have 50%.

Groups like Frontier have tried to take over that 5% margin and haven't made it work.


pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..

2 recommendations

said by axus:

Selling LTE is *more* profitable. Getting cheap spectrum from the cable co in exchange for virtual monopoly is more profitable . Why have 5% margin when you can have 50%.

Groups like Frontier have tried to take over that 5% margin and haven't made it work.

Great, head to Kentucky and start stringing wire or fiber optics. See how many you can string up before a cop inquires about the new "service" you are going to offer.

The state of regulation regarding Internet in this country is a total mess. Unless and until we undo the national, state and local mindset that there can only be one cable and one telephone company serving a geographic area and until we deregulate so the barrier to entry isn't high, there will be no competition.

Did you ever visit the FCC site or the Kentucky regulatory site, and view the thousands of pages of regulations a cable to telephone company has to comply with?

If you assume control over a geographic area, ALL within that area must be covered, in Kentucky any new telephone service must be connected if it is within 750 feet of an existing telephone pole. How profitable will it be to run 5-7 poles to one house if they will pay the low $25 rates we read about in Hong Kong. What about maintenance of poles, or damage during natural events. Even pruning of trees can become expensive.

I'm a big supporter of competition. However many are not. They like the idea of competition, within the current regulatory framework.

Competition means there will be winners and losers, that some will have many Internet or phone choices, others will have none. For the most part, most on this forum, like all the mandates. They just don't like paying for them.
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.


timcuth
Braves Fan
Premium
join:2000-09-18
Pelham, AL
Reviews:
·Charter
·AT&T Southeast
reply to nonamesleft

Re: Do they really want out or what?

said by nonamesleft:

Attention att, your immunity doesnt extend to screwing over cities towns or whole states!

Are you sure about that?

Tim
--
"Life is like this long line, except at the end there ain't no merry-go-round." - Arthur on The King of Queens
~ Project Hope ~

dlsauers

join:2005-10-25
Wellston, OH
reply to pandora

Re: If providing service was profitable AT&T wouldn't leave

said by pandora:
If providing service in Kentucky were profitable, AT&T wouldn't want to leave. There is often a duopoly in most areas for wired Internet. Usually a telephone company and a cable company. Of the two, it is probably easier to be a cable operator.

Maybe in the *URBAN* areas of KY, OH, WV, and just about every other mixed state... but unless you been to and lived/live in those areas... there is NO DUOPOLY.. outside the urban areas. theres POTS and if your really lucky you can get DSL in these areas. Crapble ends most of the time the next hawla over and there is NO PLANS for expansion, unless YOUR PAYING for it, upfront and in cash.

VZ has already sold out most of these rural areas to frontier, especially the GTE areas..

My area is a prime example... go outside the few little urbanized "towns" and you get POTS and DSL available if your REALLY LUCKY, and crapble never was available, and no plans to expand.


nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

reply to decifal

Re: Stupid

said by decifal:

said by whiteshp:

Not stupid.... just has a pocket full of cash. It's pure revolving door politics. Nobody else has a voice anymore.

When the supreme court ruled that corporations was seen as people to our congress it has been down hill ever sense for the worker in this country.... Not to mention crap like this :-/

Then couldn't we technically sue the scumbags behind this crap easier then? Since corporations want to be classified as a person.


nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

reply to timcuth

Re: Do they really want out or what?

said by timcuth:

said by nonamesleft:

Attention att, your immunity doesnt extend to screwing over cities towns or whole states!

Are you sure about that?

Tim

I'm not sure of anything with this scum of the earth corporation called att.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

DSL vs. LTE

Karl again confuses the two.

Neither AT&T nor Verizon need abandon copper in order to "focus on higher profit wireless services".

The wireless services will sell like hotcakes where they're available, and the faux-controversy over "low caps and high overage charges" will be put to rest, except for a few whiners who failed geography and didn't take economics.

I don't want to see the copper disappear, even if it is replaced by fiber or coax, but in low-density settings, it simply costs too much to maintain given its performance characteristics, as compared to wireless options.

AT&T and Verizon would be smart to offer up a 10-year rural-only fixed-LTE rate plan, with a more generous data allotment, to quiet the critics. But something tells me they'll complain anyway.


pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..

1 recommendation

reply to dlsauers

Re: If providing service was profitable AT&T wouldn't leave

said by dlsauers:



Maybe in the *URBAN* areas of KY, OH, WV, and just about every other mixed state... but unless you been to and lived/live in those areas... there is NO DUOPOLY.. outside the urban areas. theres POTS and if your really lucky you can get DSL in these areas. Crapble ends most of the time the next hawla over and there is NO PLANS for expansion, unless YOUR PAYING for it, upfront and in cash.

VZ has already sold out most of these rural areas to frontier, especially the GTE areas..

My area is a prime example... go outside the few little urbanized "towns" and you get POTS and DSL available if your REALLY LUCKY, and crapble never was available, and no plans to expand.

High density population and affluent areas without significant local regulation will almost always have better utility service than poor rural areas.

At multiple levels our government attempts to impose "fairness". Which means as near universal coverage as is possible.

There are great costs to government regulations, in time, litigation, and distraction from the core mission of providing service to new and existing customers.

If you live in a small community, contact your local utility commission and indicate your desire to provide low cost Internet to a few hundred homes nearby. Call your electric company and see if they own the poles, what they charge for pole connects.

In my state, a developer of a large complex tried to offer very low cost Internet within the complex, as a stand alone provider. He was shut down by our utility commission. Only authorized telco or cable companies can provide wired Internet service in Connecticut.

My guess is the rules are similar for most states.
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.

evmoy15

join:2013-01-31
Federal Way, WA
reply to elray

Re: DSL vs. LTE

I'd personally have no complaints about LTE/Wireless services if they made the prices/caps "netflix friendly".



midwesttech4

@ameritech.net
reply to bolt

Re: Who's Next?

This already happened in Indiana. You'll notice that Indiana is one of the states serviced by AT&T which had a large amount of U-Verse connections implemented - mainly because they were able to bring in the service without purchasing franchise agreements and being required to maintain POTS. The current expansion work (not plans, actual work) being done in Indiana, even in rural areas, on U-Verse is 20X's that of Kentucky - because they aren't compressed with tedious regulation.


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

What is it with DSL Reports and this fake story?

AT&T is NOT hanging up on users. That's the good news. That makes no sense, and doesn't pass the smell test. The bad news is that AT&T isn't really upgrading in the way they imply that they are. Their "upgrades" are basically ADSL2+ DSLAMs, which serve only a few more customers than the old ones, and maybe an RDSLAM here or there.

The exact same reason that AT&T doesn't want to invest in FTTH, short term returns and capital expenditures, is the exact same reason that AT&T is keeping DSL alive with minimal upgrades, except to lower their costs (IP-based ADSL2+ DSLAMs), they are putting basically nothing into the system, and yet it makes them money month after month after month. They aren't just going to tear out a profitable system, even if it's not as lucrative as their mobile business or their U-Verse triple plays (at least until cable cranks up the bandwidth, and it becomes blatantly obvious to dumb American consumers how awful U-Verse is).



mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

should've kept att broadband

ATT made a mistake selling att broadband to comcast. I know it needed alot of upgrades and had it's problems. But given another 5 years or so they could've made it their cash cow. Plus they could've went into other areas they served with telephone and maybe pitched att broadband in those areas, which were often served with other providers thus providing competition.



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

said by mikedz4:

ATT made a mistake selling att broadband to comcast. I know it needed alot of upgrades and had it's problems. But given another 5 years or so they could've made it their cash cow. Plus they could've went into other areas they served with telephone and maybe pitched att broadband in those areas, which were often served with other providers thus providing competition.

interesting to say. As at&t basically wanted one thing on the cable systems they owned and that was phone and once they got that they stopped upgrading. Heck the system I am on worked crappy until Comcast came in and did some minimal upgrades to make the system work at 750MHz which TCI had started upgrades to and At&t finished for the most part but half ***** it. Heck the system I am on still has 1980s style Magnavox amplifier housings from when the system was built in 1981. TWC has done so much since taking over from comcast and they basically rebuilt all of the North Texas cities to 860MHz and got rid of the A/B system in Dallas Texas that neither at&t or Comcast would touch and upgrade fully to a single line 860MHz system. Heck at&t never even got HD running on the systems or even tested it.

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
reply to decifal

Re: Stupid

said by decifal:

said by whiteshp:

Not stupid.... just has a pocket full of cash. It's pure revolving door politics. Nobody else has a voice anymore.

When the supreme court ruled that corporations was seen as people to our congress it has been down hill ever sense for the worker in this country.... Not to mention crap like this :-/

last time I checked.. spending cash to alter the regulatory climate was illegal. nothing's done about it.. but it's still illegal.

decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1

said by tmc8080:

said by decifal:

said by whiteshp:

Not stupid.... just has a pocket full of cash. It's pure revolving door politics. Nobody else has a voice anymore.

When the supreme court ruled that corporations was seen as people to our congress it has been down hill ever sense for the worker in this country.... Not to mention crap like this :-/

last time I checked.. spending cash to alter the regulatory climate was illegal. nothing's done about it.. but it's still illegal.

yeah, much like what people do when renting hookers, they don't openly say "hey, lets do this blah blah, heres your money".. But instead its hey, the consumers want phone lines unregulated so we can cherry pick and charge em more.. Oh, and this bag of money is just something I thought i'd leave here for.. Ya know, the consumers...

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to evmoy15

Re: DSL vs. LTE

said by evmoy15:

I'd personally have no complaints about LTE/Wireless services if they made the prices/caps "netflix friendly".

Too bad the Net Neutrality lobby wants to ban any chance of that happening.