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Comments on news posted 2013-02-26 08:50:42: West Virginia is one of the worst connected states in the nation, something that was supposed to be helped by a $126.3-million federal stimulus grant intended to improve state broadband. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


WireHead
I drive to fast
Premium
join:2001-05-09
Muncie, IN

LOL

Well they elected these people, they must like the way it feels in the arse or the way the d|ck tastes. Either way truer words were never spoke; "Stupid is as stupid does." It's not really conceivable to believe that this is the first time they have been screwed by their politicians.

They are probably too stupid to figure out how to prosecute any of them.
--
Retired BBR Team Starfire Team Q III Host
Live by chance. Love by choice. Kill by profession.


Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net

And they 're still investigating?

Again nothing will happen here to Verizon CISCO et.. al.. because a lot of well place bribes and pay-offs will ensure that no justice will be served.This ranks up there with the 420 million spent on the California DMV computer system that didn't work. No one paid any penalties and taxpayer money was gobbled up by parasites called "corporations", non-existent "people" who can't be prosecuted evidently by state or Federal AG's.

tpkatl

join:2009-11-16
Dacula, GA

While I believe this, why is it news?

The whole Universal Service Fund for schools and libraries has been a money-sucker for 15 years or more. The Bells got the lions share of government money to do what they were already doing, and equipment makers went to the bank with all of the money they were raking in.

This has been happening for a decade or more. Why is this considered report-worthy in 2013?


XANAVirus
Premium
join:2012-03-03
Lavalette, WV
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to WireHead

Re: LOL

said by WireHead:

Well they elected these people, they must like the way it feels in the arse or the way the d|ck tastes. Either way truer words were never spoke; "Stupid is as stupid does." It's not really conceivable to believe that this is the first time they have been screwed by their politicians.

They are probably too stupid to figure out how to prosecute any of them.

That isn't really funny, or even a very good joke at all. I'm not even sure where *you* are supposed to laugh.

Though, I'm sure you will probably claim somewhere down the line that, by writing 'LOL' as the subject, you are completely immune from any and all criticism because 'it was just a joke.'

It's not necessarily the voters who accepted these awful 'bids' by Verizon and Cisco, is it?

We pay the price for having an republic - whereupon we rely on our elected representatives to go through all those policies and procedures - and as we can see, they (our representatives) failed in doing so.

The problem is that politicians may be good at politics (and that is not completely certain either), but they are frequently technologically-incompetent and they don't want to have to take the time, either, to learn.

You see, there is no way ahead of time to determine how they will act or react in any given situation (e.g. using the stimulus funds in a fair way), and we simply have to trust them (which didn't work this time), but as such I highly doubt anything will really come out of this.

Most people in West Virginia already have broadband, or at least *a* connection to the 'Net (going by the FCC definition), and as such they don't really see WV as a place where there aren't readily available connections.

There's lots of free WiFi around here, even if you aren't at home to enjoy your own connection.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
said by XANAVirus:

It's not necessarily the voters who accepted these awful 'bids' by Verizon and Cisco, is it?

We pay the price for having an republic - whereupon we rely on our elected representatives to go through all those policies and procedures - and as we can see, they (our representatives) failed in doing so.

The problem is that politicians may be good at politics (and that is not completely certain either), but they are frequently technologically-incompetent and they don't want to have to take the time, either, to learn.

By voting these people in (and possibly re-electing them) you did accept them. What should happen is these people all get voted out. That would send a message loud and clear. But, most likely it will not happen.

This should also be done at the Federal level. If people truly are upset at the direction of this country, the solution is simple. For the next 4 years go vote and if the person is in office now, vote for the other person. If enough do that, we will clean house. It will also remind the politicians who they work for (us).

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
reply to XANAVirus
Technology is all around us. If Politicians don't understand it, they should not be politicians.


N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
reply to WireHead
It's not just the people of WV who pay. Federal money went into the project.

We all pay.....

BTW, how is the FASTING going?
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

1 recommendation

reply to Twaddle

Re: And they 're still investigating?

said by Twaddle :

Again nothing will happen here to Verizon CISCO et.. al..

So at which point is Cisco at fault here? When the state asked for features that it didn't need? Or equipment for locations that couldn't use it? Or to be unnecessarily identical across the state?

If I go buy a 1-ton pickup it's not the salesman's job to try to sell me a sub-compact instead when I say I'm only hauling groceries with it. He might

From the report, it sounds like Cisco on multiple times sent spreadsheets of capabilities, requirements, pricing, etc back and forth. If the state was stupid enough to buy them as the state requested and signed off on, Cisco shouldn't be at fault for selling them.

decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1

If

If we started holding politicians accountable for their actions this crap wouldn't happen.. Our tax dollars are basically machine gunning into the wild and everyone just keeps on grazing like nothing happened.. They have no reason to stop doing crap like this until people start going to jail (not the pampered martha stewart kind), or swinging from a rope...


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to cdru

Re: And they 're still investigating?

I don't see either cisco or Verizon being the bad guys here.
The state picked a consultant and then rushed ahead before existing resources and infrastructure was fully verified or understood.
Cisco sold it's routers and services at a fairly standard price as did Verizon the state and it's consultant were aware that delays were LIKELY and should have negotiated the delivery timing to better fit the real world deployment.

majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:1

1 whole district.

I gather in west Virginia the whole state is 1 whole library district?

I am a network admin in a library on long island and each library district matches up with the school district. I wish NY state would just hand us computer equipment.


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Government in inept and corrupt...

...say it ain't so Joe. I'm shocked!

The obviously solution to all of this is more government spending! It is the solution to every problem.


kontos
xyzzy

join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY
reply to XANAVirus

Re: LOL

said by XANAVirus:

We pay the price for having an republic - whereupon we rely on our elected representatives to go through all those policies and procedures - and as we can see, they (our representatives) failed in doing so.

What are you talking about "Failed".

Those guys went out and got $24 MM in free money, and brought "advanced" Internet access to some of the most remote areas of our country.

I thought that was what we wanted: The gov't should just go and build out the next-generation of consumer Internet access. That will solve all of our broadband problems.


gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
reply to tshirt

Re: And they 're still investigating?

said by tshirt:

I don't see either cisco or Verizon being the bad guys here.
The state picked a consultant and then rushed ahead before existing resources and infrastructure was fully verified or understood.
Cisco sold it's routers and services at a fairly standard price as did Verizon the state and it's consultant were aware that delays were LIKELY and should have negotiated the delivery timing to better fit the real world deployment.

Yah $512,000 for (1)consultant and $20,000 for (1)router is standard pricing for fleecing the whole country. Who cares about the deficit and our children in the future. Whoooo-hooo free money now!

WV should try and get some of the money back to deploy high speed broadband since the whole process was illegally rigged.
Since its fed tax money wasted that needs to be scrutinized as well.
--
Let them eat FIBER!


jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3
reply to WireHead

Re: LOL

The real LOL is on all of us for paying outrageous USF fees every month so the money can be wasted on crap like this.

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to silbaco
said by silbaco:

Technology is all around us. If Politicians don't understand it, they should not be politicians.

Politicians need to know when they are over their heads and hire the right people to guide them.


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to gaforces

Re: And they 're still investigating?

The consultant was the states choice NOT cisco or Verizon's and that price would not be unusual for a contract that size IF by consultant, you meant a team of coordinated highly trained project supervisors carefully assuring the deployment met the planned purpose on budget and on time. It doesn't appear the state hired the correct person, but that is not the vendors fault.

Apparently you have no experience with enterprise level network equipment, $20k per router with a 5year services contract is no where near the top end.
This isn't some off the shelf best buy special.


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1

OPM

This is what happens when people are allowed to play with OPM.

If it where their own money you know they would be diligent to make sure they are not only getting what is needed but at a good price too.

That money should have been used to create demand. Not supply.

--
Be a Good Netizen - Read, Know & Complain About Overly Restrictive Tyrannical ISP ToS & AUP »comcast.net/terms/ »verizon.net/policies/
Say Thanks with a Tool Points Donation


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to gaforces

Re: And they 're still investigating?

said by gaforces:

Yah $512,000 for (1)consultant and $20,000 for (1)router is standard pricing for fleecing the whole country.

you've obviously never bought from cisco before.
$512k is in-line with cisco a/s. $20k is about right for a router (depending on model and features) at standard state contract discounts.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
reply to gaforces
said by gaforces:

WV should try and get some of the money back to deploy high speed broadband since the whole process was illegally rigged.

The "illegal rigging" was done by state employees, not the vendors.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to gaforces
said by gaforces:

Yah $512,000 for (1)consultant and $20,000 for (1)router is standard pricing for fleecing the whole country. Who cares about the deficit and our children in the future. Whoooo-hooo free money now!

Here's a little news: It's not Verizon, Cisco, or the consultant's problem other than any ultimate effect on the economy.

WV should try and get some of the money back to deploy high speed broadband since the whole process was illegally rigged.
Since its fed tax money wasted that needs to be scrutinized as well.

WV bought it. While Cisco allowing returns or refunds may ultimately be the ideal solution for all involved it wasn't Cisco that was operating illegally from the sounds of it. If WV skirted the sealed bidding issue that's the state employees problem, not Cisco.


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
reply to tubbynet
said by tubbynet:

$20k is about right for a router (depending on model and features) at standard state contract discounts.

The claim is not that the routers were overpriced; I'm sure that they got the usual state discounts.

The claim is that the particular routers chosen were dramatic overkill for the intended use, in some cases serving libraries barely larger than an outhouse.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to cdru
said by cdru:

So at which point is Cisco at fault here? When the state asked for features that it didn't need? Or equipment for locations that couldn't use it? Or to be unnecessarily identical across the state?

Sounds like Verizon and Cisco wanted sealed bids that only they would know about. That only they would bid on. And then they probably speced Cisco rather than a router with a specific feature set. That would ensure Cisco's overpriced and clunky stuff would be used rather than more capable equipment from other vendors (often at a cheaper cost).


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Steve
And in some cases that was true, however the contract was to build to the 2017 standard so determining need 7 years out would require substantially more time to develop the info.

This was a Broadband STIMULUS project, a throw money at "shovel ready" work to STIMULATE the economy and hope for some return.
WV sold this project as ready to roll in order to win the grant.
In reality the broadband work need several more years of planning before SLOWLY ramping up.
Yes if this had been about efficiently upgrading the broadband they could have bought a variety of different routers, each sized for actual ANTICIPATED future need. but in this case a minor planning dept. official who had never been allowed to spend over $25k was handed $24million with a "SPEND IT NOW!" order.

No surprise he was overwhelmed, and overstepped his normal level of authority.
Gov't mandates are rarely models of efficiency even if the basic idea is good, and EMERGENCY mandates are worse of all with the oversight/hindsight coming far too late to correct any errors.

At this point it's all about blaming someone else (and spending MORE money to do it )


WireHead
I drive to fast
Premium
join:2001-05-09
Muncie, IN
reply to XANAVirus

Re: LOL

said by XANAVirus:

Though, I'm sure you will probably claim somewhere down the line that, by writing 'LOL' as the subject, you are completely immune from any and all criticism because 'it was just a joke.'

Nope, not a joke. I was serious. I know you might find it odd, but people laugh at things that are not jokes but still dang funny.

I think Verizon and Cisco have no fault in this from what I can see, and there may be other circumstances in this, the blame clearly lay at the feet of the politicians. Even the consultant is in the clear, who was hired by the politicians, unless guilty of a crime other than 'sales'. I'm in the business of making myself money, you send me a laundry list of stuff and that's what you'll get. Happy to sell it to you.

Oh, there will be a 30% restocking fee and you pay return shipping. Damaged and opened containers will be refused.
--
Retired BBR Team Starfire Team Q III Host
Live by chance. Love by choice. Kill by profession.


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
reply to decifal

Re: If

The reason politicians are not held accountable for nonsense like this is because there are more voters than tax payers. Too many people without skin in the game but still afforded the same say. They live under my roof and expect to make the rules.

--
Be a Good Netizen - Read, Know & Complain About Overly Restrictive Tyrannical ISP ToS & AUP »comcast.net/terms/ »verizon.net/policies/
Say Thanks with a Tool Points Donation


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
reply to tpkatl

Re: While I believe this, why is it news?


Because people are finally getting feed up with it.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

Cisco?

I have seen nothing to indicate Cisco 'ripped off' West Virginia,

Cisco gets an order, it gets filled

Verizon ordering Cisco gear (and taking a markup?) sure but I doubt Cisco was part of it other than fufilling an order.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

3 edits
reply to tshirt

Re: And they 're still investigating?

said by tshirt:

Apparently you have no experience with enterprise level network equipment, $20k per router with a 5year services contract is no where near the top end.

No, but most of the locations didn't need a Cisco 3945. Even several Cisco technicians said it was beyond overkill.

All they needed to get were 1921's.

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

?

So, corporations are people when they can give unlimited amounts of money in freedom of speech by the federal courts to corrupt the legal & political process, but they have IMMUNITY from jail sentences for individuals because they are a company?!? Jeez.. what hypocrisy!!