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Comments on news posted 2013-03-08 10:28:09: Georgia's absurd anti-community broadband bill is of course only the latest in a decade long effort by incumbent ISPs to ban communities from wiring themselves -- even if the local operator refuses to. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Maine and Massachusetts

Maine and Massachusetts have what's called the people's veto referendum where the citizens can gather the signatures of registered voters and push a referendum to let the voters decide if a law takes effect.

If Massachusetts were to pass such a measure, it probably would not survive the referendum. And such a measure banning public broadband would never pass the democratically controlled Massachusetts legislature.

Massachusetts has pretty good access to broadband except for a few communities in western Mass and the Quabbin reservoir area. Some parts have even three choices. Springfield has D3, even though the only other option is DSL. Maine has good connectivity in southern Maine, northern Maine has connectivity issues.
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.

Telco

join:2008-12-19

That political affiliation says it all

What's the common factor in the majority of states with such ridiculous laws? They are diehard (R) voting types.

These guys hate and loathe guvmint, but are willing to take anything from the private sector, even at their own expense.

Remember the programing, Government voted by the people for the people apparently = bad. Whereas, private corporations accountable to nobody but themselves and their shareholders apparently = good.

markbot

join:2012-11-21
New York, NY

2 edits

community broadband is communist

Imagine if the state were to start competing with private businesses by setting up coffee shops. Imagine if they subsidized these businesses with public tax dollars to drive private businesses OUT of business. This could be considered communist...communism is a failure of epic proportions.

The state then starts to increase your taxes to pay for these enterprises. The state sets up restaurants, hospitals, cable news channels, electronic manufacturers....all subsidized with public tax dollars to drive out private businesses. The state raises your taxes to 90% to provide you with all these services. You then have to work for one of these state owned businesses because they are the only thing left. It even stops paying u a salary..instead u get a tax deductible voucher to purchase goods and services from other state owned companies.

Do you see the problem now?!?!?!?!


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to Telco

Re: That political affiliation says it all

said by Telco:

What's the common factor in the majority of states with such ridiculous laws? They are diehard (R) voting types.

No, they are diehard pols. And ALL pols(D & R) votes are for sale to get re-election money. The telcos are bi-partisan pol buyers.
--
Senate - get off your butts and actually create a budget that has spending cuts 3x the amount of tax increases like you promised.


Alex J

@184.105.146.x
reply to markbot

Re: community broadband is communist

Ignoring the false and rather juvenile suggestion that a town wanting to improve itself is "communism" and would result in a hysterical takeover of the universe -- there's a very simple solution for carriers to prevent this from happening: offer better services.


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
reply to FFH5

Re: That political affiliation says it all

Look at where he posts.. he won't believe a word of that.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

1 recommendation

reply to markbot

Re: community broadband is communist

said by markbot:

Imagine if the state were to start competing with private businesses by setting up coffee shops.

The fact that you use a coffee shop to compare that situation to this shows how little you have to back up your argument.

And yet again, why are you running to the most extreme part of this argument? Did anyone say they want the government involved in EVERY BUSINESS AT EVERY CORNER? Of course not.

When private sectors completely ignore residents, the cities SHOULD HAVE THE DISCRETION to build if they want to....why is that so hard to understand?

ssavoy
Premium
join:2007-08-16
Dallas, PA
Reviews:
·Anveo

Jobs

So starting a municipal broadband network means you need people to run it. Construction crews, fiber manufacturers, engineers, technicians, trucks, upstream bandwidth, etc. It's not like the government can create free bandwidth out of thin air. You still need the private sector to build a public network. This is why I'm for it.


Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net
reply to FFH5

Re: That political affiliation says it all

Yep its the political whores who will vote for any bill if the right price is paid, be it a Democrat or a Republican whore. The American public is being screwed by their elected whores and most don't even realize it! Very few honest politicians in office,that's for sure

buckweet1980

join:2011-12-31
Allen, TX
reply to ssavoy

Re: Jobs

And are you still for it if they start to monitor what you do? Are you for it if they start to sensor you and control what and where you can go to?

ssavoy
Premium
join:2007-08-16
Dallas, PA
No.

AndyDufresne
Premium
join:2010-10-30
Chanhassen, MN
reply to Telco

Re: That political affiliation says it all

»www.muninetworks.org/communityma ··· unitymap

A little of both. We have Pennsylvania,Michigan, Wisconsin,MN,Virgina,North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida,Alabama,Texas,Arkansas, Mizzou,Washington,Nebraska, Colorado,LA,Utah, Nevada and Tenn. These laws don't pass without R and D support most of the time.


firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA
reply to markbot

Re: community broadband is communist

said by markbot:

Do you see the problem now?!?!?!?!

Yes, you equate consumer comfort markets (except the hospital) with vital needs to communities.

Private hospitals making money, making so much money that they can pay investors, lobby governments, manipulate what medical procedures are given, all at the cost of peoples health and lives. (that's problem #2). It's the perfect example of something the government should be doing but the private medical industry is so entrenched that they can manipulate the industry to make government institutions look bad and get vocal people to believe it.

You also take the common tactic and Ignore the fact that an internet connection is a utility and this fact is only masked by billions of dollars spent by private companies to keep it from being an expected service and forever being just a privilege.
--
Say no to astroturfing. actions > Ignore Author


firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA
reply to buckweet1980

Re: Jobs

said by buckweet1980:

And are you still for it if they start to monitor what you do? Are you for it if they start to sensor you and control what and where you can go to?

And what if AT&T runs the largest wholesale data mining endeavour in the country?

Are you still for private internet services? What if private internet services sell your personal information? What if a private internet service give you six chances to not visit specific sites on the internet and then manipulate your internet connection to connect you to fake websites? What if a private internet service actually redirect part of every connection you make to any website and use that information to built a profile about you?
--
Say no to astroturfing. actions > Ignore Author

Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to buckweet1980
said by buckweet1980:

And are you still for it if they start to monitor what you do? Are you for it if they start to sensor you and control what and where you can go to?

i'm not sure why this is a concern at all? doesn't At&t already monitor and then give that data to your NSA.. what's the difference if some muni broadband does the same thing?

as for control and censor what you can go to, that's already happening, again backed by your government agencies via your corporations/entertainment industries.

so basically. it all good, everything is still the same, but now, towns can have better internet with municipal broadband.

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to buckweet1980
You seem to be neglecting the fact that the private companies are already turning over 'what you do' the the government... very willingly. Are you for that?

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
said by CXM_Splicer:

You seem to be neglecting the fact that the private companies are already turning over 'what you do' the the government... very willingly. Are you for that?

I'd rather have private companies doing it than government stooges.

At least with the former, I can choose not to buy the service, I can choose to invest in their "greedy" ways and reap the dividends, and the private company doesn't have gendarmes collecting their tax at gunpoint.

The data collection that private companies do is primarily intended for marketing exploitation. With today's technology, that means targeted Google ads, and demographically-determined commercials.
I have yet to find any of it objectionable.


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

The message is VERY CLEAR!

There are 94 people who expect a RAISE AT&T. You're just going to have to dig deeper into those bottomless pockets. So...AT&T... can you hear them now? Oh no...that's those other clowns.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to markbot

Re: community broadband is communist

You have failed.

First off coffee shops have competition and they do not have an artificially protected market. Anybody can buy or lease a location and try and make a successful shop.

Also non private hospitals and health care would be a boon for this country. We are the only modern nation that has slaved its well being to the whim of the shareholders.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

buckweet1980

join:2011-12-31
Allen, TX
reply to elray

Re: Jobs

Bingo.. ATT/VZ, etc just want your money.. If they do something you don't like you can go to another service (sometimes).

What happens if the government starts to offer different services based on political party affiliation? Or any other determining factor they chose. You then have NO choice because what they say is law, whether it's law or not..

China anyone??

TechnoGeek

join:2013-01-07
reply to markbot

Re: community broadband is communist

Please explain what town does not have at least 5 coffee shops.

However, what is someone to do when they cannot get broadband...at all? Who would the "government" be competing with? Obviously, no one is providing service, so there is no competition.

Also, this is more a local government action than a state or federal action. Generally, it takes the form of a public-private cooperative, so it's not even fully government-controlled.

TechnoGeek

join:2013-01-07
reply to buckweet1980

Re: Jobs

Dude, where have you been? The PRIVATE isps do this already practically.

TechnoGeek

join:2013-01-07
reply to buckweet1980
Actually, you often cannot go to another service. Are you even paying attention to the article? That is the whole problem!

I have no problem with the government setting up service in an area where private providers refuse to provide usable service. After all, that is actually one of the government's original purposes: to provide public goods (roads, etc) that would not be feasible for a private agency to provide.

There is no public-private competition to speak of in that case.

As for all of the bad things you are saying, I fail to see how that would be any different from what a private company would do.

If the government started to offer services by political party, I think we would have a lot more serious things to worry about that an internet connection.

andre2

join:2005-08-24
Brookline, MA

"Playing field"?

'The justifications for these rules remain the same, AT&T and Time Warner Cable informing the Journal that they "just want a level playing field":'

Actually, they want just one player (themselves). "Playing field" implies competition.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to markbot

Re: community broadband is communist

said by markbot:

Imagine if the state were to start competing with private businesses by setting up police stations. Imagine if they subsidized these businesses with public tax dollars to drive private security businesses OUT of business. This could be considered communist...communism is a failure of epic proportions.

.......

Do you see the problem now?!?!?!?!

fixed it for ya

buckweet1980

join:2011-12-31
Allen, TX
reply to TechnoGeek

Re: Jobs

They may have no other 'WIRED' services, but I refuse to believe that Sprint, Verizon, ATT or whomever has cell internet services there don't have 3g/4g services available. And there are satellite options as well.

My dad has NO access to wired services, but he can get all 3 carriers 3G services and VZW 4G LTE services. I just purchased the Verizon HomeFusion service for him for xmas and he is in heaven. Wired services are the best no question about it, but wireless does work and offers a viable alternative.

I don't agree with a law outlawing community broadband options, but IMHO if they want a community option then they should take their own dollars and form a private company to offer those services. It should not be tax dollar funded or subsidized by other tax payers in the state. Not everyone will want this, so why should tax payers who don't want it pay for it?

If we could trust the government to do what is right, then I wouldn't have any problem either. But time after time they've proven they can't. Government services always come in way over budget and late because they have no one to answer to. They'll ultimately tax you more and more for outdated services.

Didn't the city of Seattle have some public run ISP services/project that was dismantled because it cost too much to operate?

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to elray
You can also choose to move to a community that doesn't monitor its users; vote with your residency! Or simply choose not to use a service your taxes pay for. How many of these agencies (that you help pay for) have you used?

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ··· agencies

What you guys are missing is that this has nothing to do with advertising... the government stooges ARE ALREADY MONITORING your activity thanks to the corporate stooges selling out. It is exactly what Buckweet seemed to fear might happen.

I disagree with Buckweet's postulation that LOCAL government would start monitoring you at all. The Feds certainly would want to (since they are doing it now) but they would need to pass a law if it were controlled at the local level. If anything, this would be a hindrance to the telco provided legal work-around.

I would much rather have a hand in the decision making process with my vote and the ability to elect the Internet czar rather than have no say at all with the profiteers we have now. I am all for community Internet funded by Elray's and my tax dollars

markbot

join:2012-11-21
New York, NY
reply to Alex J

Re: community broadband is communist

i'm just giving other examples of this situation...what ifs on other private businesses.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to buckweet1980

Re: Jobs

said by buckweet1980:

They may have no other 'WIRED' services, but I refuse to believe that Sprint, Verizon, ATT or whomever has cell internet services there don't have 3g/4g services available. And there are satellite options as well.

Those are not options.

markbot

join:2012-11-21
New York, NY
reply to patcat88

Re: community broadband is communist

good one, but in this case a private business has already set up the enterprise....which later on is deemed vital and then the govt effectively destroys the private business and takes over the industry. sound familiar???!?!?!?