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Comments on news posted 2013-03-08 10:28:09: Georgia's absurd anti-community broadband bill is of course only the latest in a decade long effort by incumbent ISPs to ban communities from wiring themselves -- even if the local operator refuses to. ..

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jfleni

@bhn.net
reply to markbot

Re: community broadband is communist

To all morons who really don't understand COMMUNIST:

Just imagine Dunkin Dognuts paying off local commisar-politicians to disapprove business licenses for any other coffee shop, and at the same time, legally limiting the number of coffee shops (only one in each area) so Dunkin get all the business!

When that happens, come back and start yelling COMMUNIST again!


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to markbot
said by markbot:

Do you see the problem now?!?!?!?!

Which is worse, A private company writing its own laws or community broadband?

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
The politicians that vote arguably questionable legislation into law?


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by openbox9:

The politicians that vote arguably questionable legislation into law?

WHAT?

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
You suggested that corporations somehow magically create laws, which isn't accurate. They may influence legislation, but ultimately the laws come from our elected officials. The legislators are to blame, plain and simple.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to FFH5

Re: That political affiliation says it all

The (R)ed states pass the bans and also deregulate the companies so that PUC or Corporation Commissions have no oversight over their abuses.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to jfleni

Re: community broadband is communist

That however would actually be called Deregulation and "Leveling the Playing field" in most states.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

2 edits
reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:

You suggested that corporations somehow magically create laws

They use money. No magic needed or implied.

When corporate influence gets to the point that people are demonizing community works without being shamed we should question if Corporatism is working.

Problem is we have such a top heavy federal tax. If it were removed, then communities would not have to grovel to get their own money back, or face stigmas when trying to IMPROVE life for its local residents.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to elray

Re: Jobs

said by elray:

I'd rather have private companies doing it than government stooges.

Don't worry, we've got the worst of both. Private companies in full partnership with the Government. Quid Pro Quo.

Love this cartoon...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-34Iyz7EYk

--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to ssavoy
Spend the $140 billion (was that the price that they came up with) and put in fiber to every buildng in the country,

Let any service provider give internet access to the homes, and whatever speed, but don't let infratructure be the limitation...
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to markbot

Re: community broadband is communist

said by markbot:

good one, but in this case a private business has already set up the enterprise....which later on is deemed vital and then the govt effectively destroys the private business and takes over the industry. sound familiar???!?!?!?

Sounds like the Rural Electrification Act.

The government stepped in and did what private industry would not because private industry cares more about their stock price than their customers.

If the REA never happened I bet midwestern farms would still be waiting for electricity.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to buckweet1980

Re: Jobs

Like what private industry can already do? all the ISPs already give your data away wholesale to the NSA and they also sell it to their advertising partners.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA

Rep Mark Hamiltons Donors

Top Industries
Uncoded $21,940.00
Insurance $7,750.00
Lawyers & Lobbyists $6,800.00
Health Professionals $5,950.00

Telecom Services & Equipment $4,950.00 **** think that influenced him

Public Education Policy $4,000.00
Candidate Committees $2,750.00
General Contractors $2,500.00
Real Estate $2,500.00
Oil & Gas $2,000.00
Business Services $2,000.00
Railroads $2,000.00
Air Transport $1,850.00
Automotive $1,850.00
Tobacco companies & tobacco product sales $1,500.00
Pharmaceuticals & Health Products $1,450.00
Food & Beverage $1,350.00
Business Associations $1,150.00

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to DataRiker

Re: community broadband is communist

said by DataRiker:

They use money. No magic needed or implied.

Great, corporations use money. Who ultimately has the power to vote a bill into law?

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3

Georgia Municipal Broadband Bill defeated.

I am somewhat amazed that my state's senate defeated the bill, but happy that it happened. It seemed many Republicans who normally hold that government provided services are evil are finally disgusted by getting little or nothing for their constituents from incumbent wire/cable/fiber ISPs. There are huge areas of Republican voters in Georgia with no wired internet services. In many cases you can walk 300 feet from your house's outside telephone connection to the buried fiber optic cables along the road. AT&T has them clearly marked with light green plastic poles that stick up out of the ground. Yet magically, no one for miles along that fiber optic run can get DSL. AT&T promised the Georgia legislature years ago that if it took authority away from municipalities to regulate cable TV and internet services they would build out Uverse to every AT&T telephone subscriber. They did not want to have to deal with hundreds of city councils. If you gave them a blanket waiver from local regulation they would be able to deploy faster because resources would go into building the network, not into negotiating with each town. Of course they did not want that "promise" of service mandated in the bill. They got deregulated and then announced that they intended to only serve an extremely limited number of areas. Living in a wealthy area was no guarantee of getting Uverse. So many wealthy Republicans who supported the deregulation were shocked to find out that they were not in the included Uverse buildout. Only areas that were going to generate enormous profit percentages on the capital expenditure were included. The rest of us could suffer with low grade DSL or nothing. But don't you dare suggest that a city or public utility build its own fiber network to fill in the gap. "That is COMMUNISM and not in line with FREE MARKET CAPITALISM. Do you not know that FREE MARKET CAPITALISM is the only solution to all issues, even when the capitalists fail to provide a solution."

It is now time for the cities and counties of Georgia to join with the electricity membership cooperatives and electric utility companies to use existing electricity delivery infrastructure to build out FTTH and FTTP networks that can serve any location that gets electricity from the electricity grid. It will probably take a couple of dozen years to plan, finance and build the all the networks. The end result would be some serious competition to the incumbent ISP duopolies and monopolies that exist in this state. I bet that just like LUS in LA, EPB in TN, and Google Fiber in Kansas City you would see the incumbents start to offer better services and values.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to openbox9

Re: community broadband is communist

Have you ever considered these politicians get elected with Corporate cash and influence with false promises?

Kind of defeats your whole implied argument.


Probitas

@teksavvy.com
reply to markbot
There are a lot of good things about communism that have nothing to do with business, like providing medical care and drugs to people that need them without driving burying them in bills, or refusing them treatment, unless you think providing people with healthcare should be considered a business and not something normally provided by the state anyway.

This is a typical knee-jerk response you normally hear from Republican talking heads. If there was adequate service and reasonable fees, there would be no need for alternatives. I blame Capitalism for that. No offense, but the drive to prevent competition and force everyone to pay the same exorbitant prices for services is almost Communism in practice anyway, that is what preventing choices does. One religion, one store, one provider. Sounds like China to me.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to DataRiker
except now with SuperPACs we do not even know exactly where every single billion has come from. If I remember correctly, Unlike normal campaign donations a superPAC does not have to say who gives them money.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to DataRiker
It doesn't defeat anything. It demonstrates that we're lazy, ignorant, and that maybe things aren't bad enough yet since we continue electing these public servants back into office. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me?


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
lay people have very little influence on who runs for political office. In both time and money.

The whole political system has been perverted. The system was never designed for people to have great concern for who they elect to federal office as they had little or no power over their day to day lives.

People can not be expected to tightly watch or regulate federal politicians. It is not practical.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
said by DataRiker:

lay people have very little influence on who runs for political office. In both time and money.

Huh? Maybe not who runs, but if they vote, they sure as hell have influence on who is elected.
said by DataRiker:

People can not be expected to tightly watch or regulate federal politicians.

And that's the laziness that I referenced. If we don't care, we deserve what we get.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
No, I don't think you understand. It is not possible for any normal working person to "keep watch" on federal elected officials.

The original intent was to have social and economic issues handled at the local and state level, where constituents can monitor their elected officials.

Having federal officials make the lion share of public policy is a massive failure, and always will be.

Nobody has the time nor the energy to track and understand all federal laws and regulations.

Your just giving a dumb cliche response.

dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON
reply to jfleni
What's very common is that Americans can't tell the difference between communism and socialism.

dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON
reply to Probitas
Dude, that's called socialism, or something else since there's so many terms out there.
Definitely not communism.

dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·ITalkBB
reply to DataRiker
At times like these I'll laugh very hard if North Korea does end up nuking the USA...

It'll give people a change of view and most especially an excuse for everyone to seriously attack N. Korea.

And no, N. Korea fits into dictatorship, not communism like China.
Plus China is changing in their own ways, so it's not the same communism you would have known.

Russia is getting off worse apparently, because their economy recovered, but it costs the people their livelihood. Dictatorship/Communism much?


djm61
Change? HAH

join:2001-06-20
Simi Valley, CA
reply to markbot
I am dumbfounded! Are you really that dense?

dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON
reply to buckweet1980

Re: Jobs

Communism - Basically when government controls what the citizens chooses in life.

If dictatorship is added on top, expect it to worsen.

But Communism isn't all bad, it's only because most government in the world tends to corrupt.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to DataRiker

Re: community broadband is communist

said by DataRiker:

Having federal officials make the lion share of public policy is a massive failure, and always will be.

I agree with that. Keep the Feds where they belong. Aren't we discussing a state in this thread though?

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to TechnoGeek

Re: Jobs

It isn't private providers "refusing to provide usable service".
Its the unwillingness of the consumer to pay for "usable service" that prevent its deployment. Until the cost of providing the service matches up with what the locals are willing to pay, you won't see more of it.

Forcing your neighbors to subsidize your service through the tax base is simply wrong.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to openbox9

Re: community broadband is communist

You can't discuss the state without discussing the federal government.

All federal laws and regulation override state and local laws, and federal taxes are obviously highest as well. ( should be the opposite )