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Comments on news posted 2013-03-08 10:28:09: Georgia's absurd anti-community broadband bill is of course only the latest in a decade long effort by incumbent ISPs to ban communities from wiring themselves -- even if the local operator refuses to. ..


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Maine and Massachusetts

Maine and Massachusetts have what's called the people's veto referendum where the citizens can gather the signatures of registered voters and push a referendum to let the voters decide if a law takes effect.

If Massachusetts were to pass such a measure, it probably would not survive the referendum. And such a measure banning public broadband would never pass the democratically controlled Massachusetts legislature.

Massachusetts has pretty good access to broadband except for a few communities in western Mass and the Quabbin reservoir area. Some parts have even three choices. Springfield has D3, even though the only other option is DSL. Maine has good connectivity in southern Maine, northern Maine has connectivity issues.
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.
Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric

That political affiliation says it all

What's the common factor in the majority of states with such ridiculous laws? They are diehard (R) voting types.

These guys hate and loathe guvmint, but are willing to take anything from the private sector, even at their own expense.

Remember the programing, Government voted by the people for the people apparently = bad. Whereas, private corporations accountable to nobody but themselves and their shareholders apparently = good.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Re: That political affiliation says it all

said by Telco:

What's the common factor in the majority of states with such ridiculous laws? They are diehard (R) voting types.

No, they are diehard pols. And ALL pols(D & R) votes are for sale to get re-election money. The telcos are bi-partisan pol buyers.
--
Senate - get off your butts and actually create a budget that has spending cuts 3x the amount of tax increases like you promised.

NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

Re: That political affiliation says it all

Look at where he posts.. he won't believe a word of that.

Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net
Yep its the political whores who will vote for any bill if the right price is paid, be it a Democrat or a Republican whore. The American public is being screwed by their elected whores and most don't even realize it! Very few honest politicians in office,that's for sure

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
The (R)ed states pass the bans and also deregulate the companies so that PUC or Corporation Commissions have no oversight over their abuses.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
AndyDufresne
Premium
join:2010-10-30
Chanhassen, MN
»www.muninetworks.org/communitymap

A little of both. We have Pennsylvania,Michigan, Wisconsin,MN,Virgina,North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida,Alabama,Texas,Arkansas, Mizzou,Washington,Nebraska, Colorado,LA,Utah, Nevada and Tenn. These laws don't pass without R and D support most of the time.
markbot

join:2012-11-21
New York, NY

2 edits

community broadband is communist

Imagine if the state were to start competing with private businesses by setting up coffee shops. Imagine if they subsidized these businesses with public tax dollars to drive private businesses OUT of business. This could be considered communist...communism is a failure of epic proportions.

The state then starts to increase your taxes to pay for these enterprises. The state sets up restaurants, hospitals, cable news channels, electronic manufacturers....all subsidized with public tax dollars to drive out private businesses. The state raises your taxes to 90% to provide you with all these services. You then have to work for one of these state owned businesses because they are the only thing left. It even stops paying u a salary..instead u get a tax deductible voucher to purchase goods and services from other state owned companies.

Do you see the problem now?!?!?!?!

Alex J

@184.105.146.x

Re: community broadband is communist

Ignoring the false and rather juvenile suggestion that a town wanting to improve itself is "communism" and would result in a hysterical takeover of the universe -- there's a very simple solution for carriers to prevent this from happening: offer better services.
markbot

join:2012-11-21
New York, NY

Re: community broadband is communist

i'm just giving other examples of this situation...what ifs on other private businesses.

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

1 recommendation

said by markbot:

Imagine if the state were to start competing with private businesses by setting up coffee shops.

The fact that you use a coffee shop to compare that situation to this shows how little you have to back up your argument.

And yet again, why are you running to the most extreme part of this argument? Did anyone say they want the government involved in EVERY BUSINESS AT EVERY CORNER? Of course not.

When private sectors completely ignore residents, the cities SHOULD HAVE THE DISCRETION to build if they want to....why is that so hard to understand?

firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA
said by markbot:

Do you see the problem now?!?!?!?!

Yes, you equate consumer comfort markets (except the hospital) with vital needs to communities.

Private hospitals making money, making so much money that they can pay investors, lobby governments, manipulate what medical procedures are given, all at the cost of peoples health and lives. (that's problem #2). It's the perfect example of something the government should be doing but the private medical industry is so entrenched that they can manipulate the industry to make government institutions look bad and get vocal people to believe it.

You also take the common tactic and Ignore the fact that an internet connection is a utility and this fact is only masked by billions of dollars spent by private companies to keep it from being an expected service and forever being just a privilege.
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Say no to astroturfing. actions > Ignore Author
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
You have failed.

First off coffee shops have competition and they do not have an artificially protected market. Anybody can buy or lease a location and try and make a successful shop.

Also non private hospitals and health care would be a boon for this country. We are the only modern nation that has slaved its well being to the whim of the shareholders.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
TechnoGeek

join:2013-01-07
Please explain what town does not have at least 5 coffee shops.

However, what is someone to do when they cannot get broadband...at all? Who would the "government" be competing with? Obviously, no one is providing service, so there is no competition.

Also, this is more a local government action than a state or federal action. Generally, it takes the form of a public-private cooperative, so it's not even fully government-controlled.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
said by markbot:

Imagine if the state were to start competing with private businesses by setting up police stations. Imagine if they subsidized these businesses with public tax dollars to drive private security businesses OUT of business. This could be considered communist...communism is a failure of epic proportions.

.......

Do you see the problem now?!?!?!?!

fixed it for ya
markbot

join:2012-11-21
New York, NY

Re: community broadband is communist

good one, but in this case a private business has already set up the enterprise....which later on is deemed vital and then the govt effectively destroys the private business and takes over the industry. sound familiar???!?!?!?
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: community broadband is communist

said by markbot:

good one, but in this case a private business has already set up the enterprise....which later on is deemed vital and then the govt effectively destroys the private business and takes over the industry. sound familiar???!?!?!?

Sounds like the Rural Electrification Act.

The government stepped in and did what private industry would not because private industry cares more about their stock price than their customers.

If the REA never happened I bet midwestern farms would still be waiting for electricity.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

jfleni

@bhn.net
To all morons who really don't understand COMMUNIST:

Just imagine Dunkin Dognuts paying off local commisar-politicians to disapprove business licenses for any other coffee shop, and at the same time, legally limiting the number of coffee shops (only one in each area) so Dunkin get all the business!

When that happens, come back and start yelling COMMUNIST again!

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: community broadband is communist

That however would actually be called Deregulation and "Leveling the Playing field" in most states.
dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON
What's very common is that Americans can't tell the difference between communism and socialism.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by markbot:

Do you see the problem now?!?!?!?!

Which is worse, A private company writing its own laws or community broadband?
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: community broadband is communist

The politicians that vote arguably questionable legislation into law?

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: community broadband is communist

said by openbox9:

The politicians that vote arguably questionable legislation into law?

WHAT?
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: community broadband is communist

You suggested that corporations somehow magically create laws, which isn't accurate. They may influence legislation, but ultimately the laws come from our elected officials. The legislators are to blame, plain and simple.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

2 edits

Re: community broadband is communist

said by openbox9:

You suggested that corporations somehow magically create laws

They use money. No magic needed or implied.

When corporate influence gets to the point that people are demonizing community works without being shamed we should question if Corporatism is working.

Problem is we have such a top heavy federal tax. If it were removed, then communities would not have to grovel to get their own money back, or face stigmas when trying to IMPROVE life for its local residents.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: community broadband is communist

said by DataRiker:

They use money. No magic needed or implied.

Great, corporations use money. Who ultimately has the power to vote a bill into law?

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: community broadband is communist

Have you ever considered these politicians get elected with Corporate cash and influence with false promises?

Kind of defeats your whole implied argument.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: community broadband is communist

except now with SuperPACs we do not even know exactly where every single billion has come from. If I remember correctly, Unlike normal campaign donations a superPAC does not have to say who gives them money.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
It doesn't defeat anything. It demonstrates that we're lazy, ignorant, and that maybe things aren't bad enough yet since we continue electing these public servants back into office. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me?

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: community broadband is communist

lay people have very little influence on who runs for political office. In both time and money.

The whole political system has been perverted. The system was never designed for people to have great concern for who they elect to federal office as they had little or no power over their day to day lives.

People can not be expected to tightly watch or regulate federal politicians. It is not practical.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: community broadband is communist

said by DataRiker:

lay people have very little influence on who runs for political office. In both time and money.

Huh? Maybe not who runs, but if they vote, they sure as hell have influence on who is elected.
said by DataRiker:

People can not be expected to tightly watch or regulate federal politicians.

And that's the laziness that I referenced. If we don't care, we deserve what we get.

•••••
dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·ITalkBB
At times like these I'll laugh very hard if North Korea does end up nuking the USA...

It'll give people a change of view and most especially an excuse for everyone to seriously attack N. Korea.

And no, N. Korea fits into dictatorship, not communism like China.
Plus China is changing in their own ways, so it's not the same communism you would have known.

Russia is getting off worse apparently, because their economy recovered, but it costs the people their livelihood. Dictatorship/Communism much?

Probitas

@teksavvy.com
There are a lot of good things about communism that have nothing to do with business, like providing medical care and drugs to people that need them without driving burying them in bills, or refusing them treatment, unless you think providing people with healthcare should be considered a business and not something normally provided by the state anyway.

This is a typical knee-jerk response you normally hear from Republican talking heads. If there was adequate service and reasonable fees, there would be no need for alternatives. I blame Capitalism for that. No offense, but the drive to prevent competition and force everyone to pay the same exorbitant prices for services is almost Communism in practice anyway, that is what preventing choices does. One religion, one store, one provider. Sounds like China to me.
dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON

Re: community broadband is communist

Dude, that's called socialism, or something else since there's so many terms out there.
Definitely not communism.

djm61
Change? HAH

join:2001-06-20
Simi Valley, CA
I am dumbfounded! Are you really that dense?
ssavoy
Premium
join:2007-08-16
Dallas, PA
Reviews:
·Anveo

Jobs

So starting a municipal broadband network means you need people to run it. Construction crews, fiber manufacturers, engineers, technicians, trucks, upstream bandwidth, etc. It's not like the government can create free bandwidth out of thin air. You still need the private sector to build a public network. This is why I'm for it.

•••••••••••••••••

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

The message is VERY CLEAR!

There are 94 people who expect a RAISE AT&T. You're just going to have to dig deeper into those bottomless pockets. So...AT&T... can you hear them now? Oh no...that's those other clowns.
andre2

join:2005-08-24
Brookline, MA

"Playing field"?

'The justifications for these rules remain the same, AT&T and Time Warner Cable informing the Journal that they "just want a level playing field":'

Actually, they want just one player (themselves). "Playing field" implies competition.

CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA

Rep Mark Hamiltons Donors

Top Industries
Uncoded $21,940.00
Insurance $7,750.00
Lawyers & Lobbyists $6,800.00
Health Professionals $5,950.00

Telecom Services & Equipment $4,950.00 **** think that influenced him

Public Education Policy $4,000.00
Candidate Committees $2,750.00
General Contractors $2,500.00
Real Estate $2,500.00
Oil & Gas $2,000.00
Business Services $2,000.00
Railroads $2,000.00
Air Transport $1,850.00
Automotive $1,850.00
Tobacco companies & tobacco product sales $1,500.00
Pharmaceuticals & Health Products $1,450.00
Food & Beverage $1,350.00
Business Associations $1,150.00
davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3

Georgia Municipal Broadband Bill defeated.

I am somewhat amazed that my state's senate defeated the bill, but happy that it happened. It seemed many Republicans who normally hold that government provided services are evil are finally disgusted by getting little or nothing for their constituents from incumbent wire/cable/fiber ISPs. There are huge areas of Republican voters in Georgia with no wired internet services. In many cases you can walk 300 feet from your house's outside telephone connection to the buried fiber optic cables along the road. AT&T has them clearly marked with light green plastic poles that stick up out of the ground. Yet magically, no one for miles along that fiber optic run can get DSL. AT&T promised the Georgia legislature years ago that if it took authority away from municipalities to regulate cable TV and internet services they would build out Uverse to every AT&T telephone subscriber. They did not want to have to deal with hundreds of city councils. If you gave them a blanket waiver from local regulation they would be able to deploy faster because resources would go into building the network, not into negotiating with each town. Of course they did not want that "promise" of service mandated in the bill. They got deregulated and then announced that they intended to only serve an extremely limited number of areas. Living in a wealthy area was no guarantee of getting Uverse. So many wealthy Republicans who supported the deregulation were shocked to find out that they were not in the included Uverse buildout. Only areas that were going to generate enormous profit percentages on the capital expenditure were included. The rest of us could suffer with low grade DSL or nothing. But don't you dare suggest that a city or public utility build its own fiber network to fill in the gap. "That is COMMUNISM and not in line with FREE MARKET CAPITALISM. Do you not know that FREE MARKET CAPITALISM is the only solution to all issues, even when the capitalists fail to provide a solution."

It is now time for the cities and counties of Georgia to join with the electricity membership cooperatives and electric utility companies to use existing electricity delivery infrastructure to build out FTTH and FTTP networks that can serve any location that gets electricity from the electricity grid. It will probably take a couple of dozen years to plan, finance and build the all the networks. The end result would be some serious competition to the incumbent ISP duopolies and monopolies that exist in this state. I bet that just like LUS in LA, EPB in TN, and Google Fiber in Kansas City you would see the incumbents start to offer better services and values.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

call it like you see it

it is corrupt government, be it national, state or local that sells out to monopolies and disadvantages the consumer, with plain and simple language here.

broadband access is not even a scratch on the tip of the iceberg of lower quality of life issues in these states with corrupt governments. just give it a few years.. states in the south oil producing territories will pay as high or higher gasoline prices as the northern states do now as an example-- you already see this in major cities in the south.

source:
www.gasbuddy.com