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Comments on news posted 2013-04-10 09:18:34: While AT&T took the cheaper route when upgrading portions of their network to fiber to the node, the company has historically offered fiber to the home to a few locations (less than a few hundred thousand), primarily in upscale housing developments. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

No conspiracy here

Look up until a few years ago AT&T (SBC) was run by Whiteacre who was an old skool copper guy, so you get copper. So you see AT&T do a hybrid network NO different that cableco. It is smart and cost effective. These guys have a company to run, and wireless is where the margin is. The problem is physics...Not enough wire or too much distance, and your "rural" people are SOL for now...Until wireless kicks in. In fact even Verizon uses VDSL in MDU in the City...

New skool VZ and ATT is now run by wireless jockeys, so you will see wireless solutions. Not a stretch of the imagination. It doesn't take a tarot reader to know where those two are going.

Ripping out that infrastructure and putting FTTH is just darn expensive, and only Verizon had the guts to do it in PROFITABLE areas, and they will be absorbing that CapEX cost for some time. Now McAdam was COO at the time, but he is an engineer and hails from Cornell which around the corner is a little known company Corning which by the way supplies all of Verizon's fibre. Interesting how that happens.
Expand your moderator at work

o2cool8

join:2002-04-19
Miami, FL

I've had 24/3 for a while

I'm down in south florida and I've had 24/3 for a while, could be close to a year since I got it.


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
reply to elefante72

Re: No conspiracy here

said by elefante72:

Ripping out that infrastructure and putting FTTH is just darn expensive, and only Verizon had the guts to do it in PROFITABLE areas, and they will be absorbing that CapEX cost for some time.

If they recycled all that copper, they'd probably make up the cost for it.


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

woooooooooooow

a whopping 24mbps. give me a break.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
In at&t land this is 24th century technology

Keefer21

join:2012-07-06
Hilton, NY
reply to Simba7

Re: No conspiracy here

Labor cost's & permits would quickly eat up the profit from the recovered copper. its no easy task taking down those heavy cables.


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO
reply to elefante72
said by elefante72:

Look up until a few years ago AT&T (SBC) was run by Whiteacre who was an old skool copper guy, so you get copper. So you see AT&T do a hybrid network NO different that cableco.

Key difference - Coax can handle a lot more bandwidth.

If you were to take coax with 1ghz equipment and dedicate it entirely to data with today's 256QAM modulation with 6mhz channels, you'd have 6333mbps. Cablecos have loads of bandwidth at their fingertips, and most of it is wasted on inefficiently broadcasted TV. They haven't even moved to MPEG-4 yet

I don't necessarily think AT&T made a mistake by going with VDSL. Where they failed was placing the VRADs too far from homes. They should have targeted under 1000 feet, not 3000 feet. They grossly underestimated HD popularity, which affects both internet and TV bandwidth demands.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.


Mojo 77

@he.net
reply to elefante72

No conspiracy here

Who is saying it's a "conspiracy"? It's just shitty for users who'd like better speeds than they're getting. Especially when they've got a fiber to the home line directly to their apartment's door.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to o2cool8

Re: I've had 24/3 for a while

Not on FTTP. You probably have a modem, and are on FTTN. FTTN had 24/3 for a while, but not so with FTTP (and not due to technical limitations -- purely due to AT&T stupidity).


MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1
reply to ArrayList

Re: woooooooooooow

agreed, that's pretty much what you get when you subscribe to the lowest tier of verizon fios, 15/5 which they overprovision. I get 22 - 24mbps down and 5 up. and I can subscribe to up to 165 I think

That's pathetic for a high speed offer on a fiber connection.


OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
reply to Keefer21

Re: No conspiracy here

Um, the scrappers that do it for drug money would disagree.


inteller
Sociopaths always win.

join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
so wait a minute....AmericanMovil/Tracfone could pay ATT in meth for wholesale minutes ( produced cheaper from Mexican cartels), then ATT could pay the scrappers in meth to recover the copper, then they could sell it for $$$ then we could all get 100Mbps fiber! Genius!
--
"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!"


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
reply to MovieLover76

Re: woooooooooooow

And again, it's excellent for at&t

Technicholas
Premium
join:2010-11-11
Winterset, IA

Thats IT?

I know someone who is in a AT&T market and in a TimeWarner market and is getting 50mb down 5mb up and AT&T can get 50mb trained up on VDSL but will not give it to the internet side.


OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
reply to inteller

Re: No conspiracy here

Well seeing how they can cut down a section overnight and reap some benefit from it. If AT&T was to do it they would be concerned about doing it safely and such. In reality for the overhead copper, all you'd need to do is have a reel truck that is motorized to pull the cable to it vs feeding it out. then just have a bucket truck or two ahead of that removing the strand and lashing from the cable.

Keefer21

join:2012-07-06
Hilton, NY
reply to inteller
Haha that would for sure be something i can see ATT Lobbying for.


Razr

@comcast.net

Uverse is pitiful

I live in South Florida and had Uverse for 2 years. I had both the maximum TV package and the maximum internet package (24Mbps). One of the major reasons I moved recently was to get rid of Uverse. ATT is so behind its laughable. A 24Mbps internet service when Comcast offers 105Mbps for their top plan is completely unacceptable.

The price for Comcast 25Mbps internet is about half ATT 24Mbps. If that were the only problem though, it might be OK. But the crappy technology Uverse uses adds a whole 20ms ping to the connection. As someone who plays a ton of online games, this became a huge problem.

As for ATT's TV service, its slow and low quality. I've moved now and using Comcast and while they're not perfect, I'm way happier with the service. Stay away from Uverse if you can.

en103

join:2011-05-02
reply to Technicholas

Re: Thats IT?

That's in a LOT of places... here in SoCal

Keefer21

join:2012-07-06
Hilton, NY
reply to OSUGoose

Re: No conspiracy here

...Still cost's more money than what its worth.

You have to pay the people who schedule when its going to happen..the people who dispatch the trucks to do this.. the people doing it... the fuel to run those trucks...etc etc.

if there was a real bounty to be had don't you think instead of just flat out abandoning those cables like they have, or are trying to do they would have started massively pulling down those cables already?

There is more than just going and doing it involved with taking down the copper and recycling it and it all cost's money thats not gonna make a difference over just letting it sit there dead.


AnonMe

@comcastbusiness.net

Not all fiber networks are created equal

One thing that you rarely hear about is what architecture is being deployed. For example, most fiber networks are not a dedicated strand of fiber from the home to the CO.

More commonly (so I'm told anyway) are Passive Optical Networks (PON), which splits a single fiber from the POP, to a bunch of subscribers, via a "fiber splitter" if you will. Completely passive, no electronics in it, more like a "1 in and 64 out pigtail", usually placed inline with the arial fiber. That means if you've got a 1 Gbps fiber from the POP, split 64 ways, you're down to 15 Mbps to each subscriber, tops. 1 Gbps split 32 ways is 30 Mbps per subscriber, tops.

That said, just because you've got a piece of fiber in your location, doesn't mean all you have to do is slap electronics on it and get unlimited bandwidth.

I'd love to learn more about the real world installations from someone who is actively involved in this stuff.

i2Fuzzy

join:2009-02-25
Fort Worth, TX

FTTH in Fort Worth

I've got FTTH here in Fort Worth and pay $56 + junk fees for 18/1.5. While I'd like to have 24/3, and it's ridiculous that I don't have it available to me, It's not worth the extra $10/month the copper customers get.

I can't threaten to switch to cable because, although Charter is in the ground, no cable operators are in my neighborhood.
--
Ali
Check Point Certified Security Expert

cubguy

join:2010-07-09
Greenwood Springs, MS
reply to Keefer21

Re: No conspiracy here

You forget the people who plan to talk about doing it, the people who plan it, the people who talk about, the people who go smoke a cigarette and then come back and claim to have talked about, and the janitor to clean up after all of them.

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
reply to elefante72
Verizon has been making record profits over the last couple of years. I'm sure that they can recover those CapEX rather quickly. It takes money to make money, and doing FTTH right for the future was a good call.

at&t (SBC) is doing it too much on the cheap. They have the capability in some greenfield areas to really be disruptive with their speeds, but they're doing incremental upgrades only. Sort of the way Apple does with their products.

I guess it works financially, but it really shows who in the companies are being listened to...


Probitas

@teksavvy.com

I don't get the buzz

You can get triple those speeds over coax now, seems like they are just delaying fiber installs with such slow speeds.


Jovi
Premium
join:2000-02-24
Mount Joy, PA
reply to i2Fuzzy

Re: FTTH in Fort Worth

said by i2Fuzzy:

I've got FTTH here in Fort Worth and pay $56 + junk fees for 18/1.5. While I'd like to have 24/3, and it's ridiculous that I don't have it available to me, It's not worth the extra $10/month the copper customers get.

I can't threaten to switch to cable because, although Charter is in the ground, no cable operators are in my neighborhood.

Excuse me for asking, but your location says Keller Texas. That was the first place in the country to have Verizon Fios. Do you happen to be a part of Keller that does not have it yet?
--
"Some people have no respect for logic."


Cthen

join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI

Wow.... 24mbps?

That is available here already on the hybrid network. Great job at, hhmm, well, hhmm.....
--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek

biochemistry
Premium
join:2003-05-09
92361

Pathetic

It's time we quit using at&t and broadband in the same sentence. Henceforth, the previous sentence will be the final one.

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

joke speeds

you CAN unscrew a light bulb.
you CAN'T unscrew millions of consumers from 2006 - 2013 and future screw-ings..

The cat's out of the bag.. people WANT 1 gigabit symmetrical internet for under $100 a month and they want it YESTERDAY!!! Time's up, look for the drum beat to get louder calling for regulation of the wire line marketplace if nothing changes amongst the major ISP carriers.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to djrobx

Re: No conspiracy here

You're spot on about HFC's bandwidth. AT&T screwed up with VDSL, however. They should have gone with FTTH. Whoever has the most bandwidth will win. I'd love to see a 1ghz cable system with MPEG-4 going head to head with 1gbps GPON fiber with high-bandwidth IPTV. And cable will be able to go to 1.1 or 1.2ghz with DOCSIS 3.1 with OFDMA (whether anyone actually rolls that out is another, but at least it will be possible by spec).