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Comments on news posted 2013-04-17 08:24:01: While we all lust over 1 Gbps connections most of us can't get, Sony-run Japanese ISP So-net Entertainment this week pushed the residential needle to 2 Gbps in Japan. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

all I can say

But we are the greatest power on Earth!......../
--
BlooMe

Re: all I can say

(The FCC, Cable cos and Telcos loudly)

Alright people! Move along now! Nothing to see here!!!!
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: all I can say

There really isn't. This is a marketing gimmick. How many have the equipment to remotely get close to leveraging 2 Gbps?

DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

Re: all I can say

When the prices of 10gigE interfaces come down to the consumer level, everyone would
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: all I can say

Ok, when that happens, then yes, people may be able to leverage the service if they buy new computers and networking gear. Doesn't change the fact that this is still a marketing gimmick because a vast majority of consumers that may have access to this 2/1 Gbps service won't get anywhere near its full potential.

tmh

@comcastbusiness.net
said by openbox9:

There really isn't. This is a marketing gimmick. How many have the equipment to remotely get close to leveraging 2 Gbps?

It depends on what their current access cost is. If they're already paying close to $50 for FIOS-type speeds, the question is: why not?
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: all I can say

How does that change the fact that offering 2/1 Gbps service is a marketing gimmick?
xexx

join:2004-09-03
Aledo, TX

Re: all I can say

I would love to be part of someones "marketing gimmick"
Expand your moderator at work

Bootes
Premium
join:2005-01-28
New York, NY
Sure, but US ISPs are charging more for speeds that are below what your average consumer could use. At this point, I don't really care if my connection is 2gbps or 500mbps, but I would be ecstatic to have either at this price.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: all I can say

Ok. And I'd love to go back to the states where I have a lower cost of living, even if I have to "suffer" with my $60/mth 15/5 FiOS connection. Everything is a trade off.

Megadeth5150
Big in Japan
Premium
join:2004-12-31
Japan Inc.

Re: all I can say

Nobody is keeping you here against your will...
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: all I can say

Not that it was the point of this discussion, but I've got requirements to satisfy here and then I will likely be returning to the states. My point was that the grass tends to be greener on the other side of the fence. Unless you've stood on both sides, it's easy to whine about what the other side has that your side doesn't.

Megadeth5150
Big in Japan
Premium
join:2004-12-31
Japan Inc.

Re: all I can say

My bad, I misunderstood you there.

jmad980

join:2012-06-16
Reviews:
·HughesNet Satell..

Installation Fee

The install fee looks a bit steep, pushes it up to the around $70/month zone if you factor it into the monthly costs. (Although I assume the fee is upfront)

Still beats my sat service

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL

Re: Installation Fee

install fees can be worth it as long as the install is done right.

darkwish
Free Knight
Premium
join:2003-09-12
Virginia Beach, VA
The fees are waived if you order the service online.
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

guaranteed bandwidth.

So, basically you can guarantee 1 gbps at any given time to two 1gig Ethernet ports (2 desktops at full speed, all the time!)

next step after this is obviously 10 gigs... hopefully by then desktops actually ship with 10gig Ethernet.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL

Re: guaranteed bandwidth.

makes me wonder with the fastest bus speed in a typical computer is.

CAST SUCKS

@comcastbusiness.net

Re: guaranteed bandwidth.

pci-e gen 3 X16 slot?

QPI?

HTX?
InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
PCIe 3.0 is 8Gbps per lane each way. On a x16 GPU slot, that's 128Gbps both ways; enough to accommodate 100GbE. This slot is standard in most PCs using an i5-3xxx or i7-3xxx CPU.

Lower-end PCs using i5/i7-2xxx CPUs or Celeron/Pentium/i3 only have PCIe 2.x which limits their x16 bandwidth to 80Gbps.

USB3 can do up to 5Gbps, which is already more than twice as fast as this up-to-2Gbps service.

So, in terms of PC connectivity, 2Gbps is not particularly fast but it is twice as fast as the ubiquitous 1GbE NICs.
InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by Kamus:

So, basically you can guarantee 1 gbps at any given time to two 1gig Ethernet ports (2 desktops at full speed, all the time!)

It isn't guaranteed. The deployment uses GPON which means the 2.488/1.244Gbps feed gets split between 8 or more subscribers. The OLT at the other end likely has something like 10:1 oversubscription so you are not likely to get more than maybe 300Mbps during peak hours.

Outside North America, it is quite common for networks to operate under congested regime during peak hours. Running networks that way is much cheaper than trying to stay ahead of instantaneous peak load.
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

Re: guaranteed bandwidth.

ahmm it's pretty common here in the us also. Every end user commercial service works like this.

intok

join:2012-03-15
What BosstonesOwn said as well as 300Mbps during peak time kicks the everloving crap out of your best case scenario on everything but the fastest muni or google FTTH installs.
InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Re: guaranteed bandwidth.

said by intok:

What BosstonesOwn said as well as 300Mbps during peak time kicks the everloving crap out of your best case scenario on everything but the fastest muni or google FTTH installs.

300Mbps was an optimistic figure considering only the first two aggregation layers.

If you look at other high-speed low-cost providers like HKBN's 1Gbps for ~$35/month, peak-hour speeds to sites/services outside HKBN's own network drop to 30-70Mbps... and even within their own network, speeds do not seem to exceed 300Mbps very often. Of course, still beats the pants off anything we can get for $35/month here.

As for Google Fiber, there aren't enough people on it to draw conclusions yet but my hunch is it will turn out somewhat like HKBN if they roll it out to enough people for it to make a dent in Google's existing bandwidth pool.
lemonade

join:2003-12-13
Los Angeles, CA

how?

so how do those PC get 2Gbps downstream? I thought Gigabit is gigabit...sorry being a noob on this.
sunny8294
Shqipe

join:2001-03-15
Localhost ;)

Re: how?

10G nic
34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
said by lemonade:

so how do those PC get 2Gbps downstream? I thought Gigabit is gigabit...sorry being a noob on this.

You can have two 1Gbpc NICs (or more) and combine them into one logical connection.

SimbaTLK1
Rawrrr

join:2001-09-07
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: how?

said by 34764170:

You can have two 1Gbpc NICs (or more) and combine them into one logical connection.

Depending on the bond/team settings, that will only get you a max of 1Gbit per single stream.

That means that things like bittorrent could max out the 2Gbps, but something like an FTP transfer, or streaming a video, not so much.

I wonder what the connection on the back of the modem is? 10GBASE-T? 10GBASE-SR? You would to need to have a high end managed switch with several 10G ports on it and a smokin' fast router to be able to even use the connection with multiple PCs anywhere near maximum potential.

As far as I know this kind of equipment only exists in the datacenter (they don't have it at your local Best Buy). What are end users connecting these fast connections to?
34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

Re: how?

said by SimbaTLK1:

Depending on the bond/team settings, that will only get you a max of 1Gbit per single stream.

That means that things like bittorrent could max out the 2Gbps, but something like an FTP transfer, or streaming a video, not so much.

You would to need to have a high end managed switch with several 10G ports on it and a smokin' fast router to be able to even use the connection with multiple PCs anywhere near maximum potential.

As far as I know this kind of equipment only exists in the datacenter (they don't have it at your local Best Buy). What are end users connecting these fast connections to?

Any link aggregation (802.3ad (LACP)) I would use would be able to consume more than 1Gbps of capacity for a single connection.

Not really. They could design CPE with multiple 1Gb ports and that would be pretty cheap (even at consumer grade cheap level) compared to 10Gb even at this point and even with copper 10Gb ports.

It isn't that big of a deal for the provider to provide CPE to deal with this. Computers with 1Gb ports have been common all over for years. Cheap web managed switches that support 802.3ad (LACP) have been available for years which the ISP could provide as an option.

Anyway, the CPE they provide has 3 1Gbps ports. It isn't intended for one particular device to utilize all 2Gb of capacity but really who would actually expect that? Anyone that would have such a connection would have a bunch of devices anyway.

SimbaTLK1
Rawrrr

join:2001-09-07
Pittsburgh, PA

1 edit

Re: how?

said by 34764170:

Any link aggregation (802.3ad (LACP)) I would use would be able to consume more than 1Gbps of capacity for a single connection.

I'd like to see how you make LACP do that, because the maximum throughput of a single stream (a single file copy for example) through an LACP bond is throughput of a single link.

Only with 2+ streams can you take advantage of increased throughput.

»www.ieee802.org/3/hssg/public/ap···0407.pdf

Edit: Added information on 802.3ad for reference.
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
said by SimbaTLK1 See Profile
That means that things like bittorrent could max out the 2Gbps, but something like an FTP transfer, or streaming a video, not so much.

[/BQUOTE :

Yeah, why would one run a few simultaneous FTP downloads or multipart FTP downloads, we do not need such speeds, no sir.


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS
Bittorrent? Forgetting where they are? This is in Japan where the new piracy laws mean up to 10 years of prison time, not just fines, that is unless you are one of those that need to download 3000 Linux distros. The new piracy laws have had a chilling effect on piracy. I used to watch sopcasts of Japanese networks and within a week of the new law passing, all of the feeds were gone.
--
Nocchi rules.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
According to the presentation that was given, you don't get 2Gb to a single device, there are 3 Gb ports plus 802.11n, so across all devices there is the potential of a total 2Gb throughput.
--
Nocchi rules.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: how?

So is the provider simply uncapping the GPON and letting it run full bore (and best effort) to all subs on the net?

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4

the drawback is

you have to live in a 200 sq ft apartment ... maybe that's too generous, call it a sardine can--
... need help? »evdo-tips.com/
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: the drawback is

Everything is a trade off, but most people don't want to talk about that when we're discussing gbps for $50/mth.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Nonsense. Size of the home has nothing to do with it.
Gandalf4503

join:2002-06-27
Cohoes, NY

I can't wait

Until more and more people get 100 Mbps - 1 Gbps+ fiber connections, don't take proper security cautions, and join their fat pipes up with the fleets of botnets already out there in the wild.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

Pointless

Can you even buy 10 Gigabit hardware needed for this on the residential level? Not that I am aware of.

This is purely marketing.

•••
AlfredNewman

join:2010-03-25
Columbus, OH

1 recommendation

Good thing...

we live in the Unites States where the ISPs decided we obviously don't need such speeds.

•••••

IowaCowboy
Want to go back to Iowa
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Japan vs United States

Japan is very urban and very thickly settled. The US has urban clusters with a lot of rural areas in between. Urban areas are very cheap to wire and yield a very quick ROI.

Rural areas are very costly to wire and will take very long to recoup the investment. 1 Gbps connections may be feasible in countries that are very thickly settled but America is very spread out and we have 1000 times the land mass of Korea and Japan. So the limitation in faster connections is distance. A cable company is not going to run coax to an area that is sparcely settled as it will take a long time to recoup the investment.

Another limiting factor is connecting the urban clusters to the network backbone (take for example the distance from Cedar Rapids IA to Des Moines) as you would have to upgrade the network backbone to support faster connections. Another example is the Dakotas where there are urban centers but a lot of rural areas between those clusters. And when you add distance, you add latency. So a data packet that travels from Springfield MA to Boston is not going to take as long as a packet from Grand Island NE to Fargo ND. Connection speed is one thing but latency can add up with distance. A good example to demonstrate this is do a few speed tests to a nearby server (faster and less latency) and to a far away server (slower and more latency).
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner and I currently have DirecTV. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.

•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

It is a shared service based on congestion

It is like running the fiber equivalent of uncapped DOCSIS...you get what you can get, but the GPON is still shared.

On the Nuro.jp site, there are numerous disclaimers to the effect that speeds are dependent on overall network congestion. 2Gb is simply the maximum negotiated speed.

As far as the box, it offers 802.11n and Gb LAN so you can't get 2Gb to a single device (without external bridging or something). You just have a theoretical HOUSEHOLD maximum throughput between all ports of 2Gb.

Still bitchen, but it isn't like it is a 2Gb dedicated service.
--
Nocchi rules.
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Re: It is a shared service based on congestion

said by skeechan:

Still bitchen, but it isn't like it is a 2Gb dedicated service.

That's fine with me. If you think about it this artificial cap ISP's implement is in essence just very bad network management, since when the load on the network is low you still have to deal with the artificial cap.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: It is a shared service based on congestion

We'll see. If the shared topology ends up with 64 shares and they're all web hogs, then things won't be so awesome.
--
Nocchi rules.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

next year

I think google should lower the price to $50 next year and raise the speeds of the free service.

The rest? How about 100/100 symmetrical for a start, damn it!!! (same price)
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: next year

I think Google should do away with paid tiers for both its Internet access and TV services.

bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
·Sprint Mobile Br..

1 recommendation

Re: next year

said by openbox9:

I think Google should do away with paid tiers for both its Internet access and TV services.

I think all the internet should be free for everyone... If all the businesses became charities they would have alot more customers...

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

Cheaper then my 12mbps service

Just sayin'

••••••••

bbchris2nd
Joke Factory

join:2010-09-03
Australia

We don't need this

Give me a break
buzz_4_20

join:2003-09-20
Limestone, ME

I am Shocked...

That Sony offers such a quality product.

mig288
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Cherry Hill, NJ
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Awesome!

Regardless of the fact that some on here feel this is for marketing purposes, the fact that this provider is pushing the technology to the consumers is great. The more people in the home using broadband services, the better this service offering is for those families who are utilizing bandwidth.

i.e. PS3, a few ipads streaming video, me on the pc, wife on the lap top. etc...
NefCanuck

join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON

Interesting exercise

Although ultimately this service comes with so many disclaimers and caveats that it would make a lawyer giggle like a loon, as a marketing exercise it's quite interesting.

Of course the fact that still I pay more for less in comparison (25/7 capped versus an average 32/32 uncapped, if this 2Gb service was subdivided 64 ways) is depressing to say the least

NefCanuck
Winterman

join:2009-10-29
Wasilla, AK

Finally.....

I can stream 400 HD movies at once.
RCampbell

join:2013-04-17
Sparta, NJ

US

Tell them to pull that in the US, then we'll talk.

Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1

1 recommendation

WTH!!!

I pay 51 bucks a month and all I get is "24 Mbs." [which we know is more like 10]
We are so screwed over by the providers here, it's shameful.
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:5

False advertising - you don't actually get these speeds.

Before you guys get all wound up about how expensive US broadband is blah blah blah you should know that US ISPs are a lot faster than Japanese ones. North American websites load MUCH faster if you live in the US and speeds are better than what you got if you lived in Japan.

Speed test results from a So-Net 100mbps (supposedly) connection:
To Tokyo - 24/20mbps
To Los Angeles - 16/5mbps
To New York - 3.5/7.75mbps first test, 10/4mbps second test
To London - 3/5mbps
To Germany - 9/3mbps

Japanese customers on the 2GBPS (supposedly) plan will probably get something like 100mbps domestically and similar to the above for international. You can call it 2GBPS all you want but when your international uplinks are saturated and only allow cable-modem speeds the connection speed is completely pointless.