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Comments on news posted 2013-04-22 12:34:13: Wilson, North Carolina is the home of a municipal fiber deployment named Greenlight that has offered symmetrical 100 Mbps connections since 2009, and is now poised to offer locals speeds up to 1 Gbps. ..


gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium Member
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC

gatorkram

Premium Member

Good for them..

It makes me cry every time I think of greenlight, and that it's about 50 miles west from me.

Hearing they are doing well enough to be talking even more speed is great news. Big thumbs up to them.
montauk
join:2013-03-07
New York, NY

montauk

Member

Re: Good for them..

I know they can't spread the costs over a wider userbase (like a TWC), but I wish their rates were more competitive... ie, in the neighborhood of Google Fiber's.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: Good for them..

It's a Muni, not a charity.

kontos
xyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY

1 recommendation

kontos

Member

Re: Good for them..

said by silbaco:

It's a Muni, not a charity.

That's true, but if those are the prices they need to charge in order to recover costs, it doesn't support the theme you hear in these parts that "the incumbent ISPs are ripping us off by keeping prices high and speeds low."

PaulHikeS2
join:2003-03-06
Fitchburg, MA

PaulHikeS2

Member

Re: Good for them..

said by kontos:

said by silbaco:

It's a Muni, not a charity.

That's true, but if those are the prices they need to charge in order to recover costs, it doesn't support the theme you hear in these parts that "the incumbent ISPs are ripping us off by keeping prices high and speeds low."

Shhhh, don't let anyone hear your anti-consumer fallacies suggesting that it actually costs money to provide and maintain a broadband network.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72

Member

Re: Good for them..

What's important is that competition is afoot and if these guys can provide 1 Gbps at a competitive rate, then they can win customers. I think it needs to be under $100 for it to fly though, otherwise this is purely a luxury item.

They have to know that practically nobody can even come close to using that pipe.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to kontos

Premium Member

to kontos
said by kontos:

said by silbaco:

It's a Muni, not a charity.

That's true, but if those are the prices they need to charge in order to recover costs, it doesn't support the theme you hear in these parts that "the incumbent ISPs are ripping us off by keeping prices high and speeds low."

That is, obviously, because the ISPs aren't ripping people off. Though community activists would have you believe otherwise.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: Good for them..

said by FFH5:

said by kontos:

said by silbaco:

It's a Muni, not a charity.

That's true, but if those are the prices they need to charge in order to recover costs, it doesn't support the theme you hear in these parts that "the incumbent ISPs are ripping us off by keeping prices high and speeds low."

That is, obviously, because the ISPs aren't ripping people off. Though community activists would have you believe otherwise.

They are undoubtedly ripping people off. Their lines are paid off, the cost of bandwidth drops 50% every year, and yet their prices go up and th want to implement caps. By definition of being monopolies or duopolies, they are ripping people off.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: Good for them..

Their lines are paid off? Whos lines are paid off? Last I checked, nearly every single ISP in this country has substantial debt.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: Good for them..

said by silbaco:

Their lines are paid off? Whos lines are paid off? Last I checked, nearly every single ISP in this country has substantial debt.

Are you kidding me? Every giant company has piles of debt... along with oodles of cash at hand. They don't pay off the debt because they make more money on interest on their saved up cash minus the interest paid on debt than they would if they just whited out their ledgers.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Good for them..

Have you looked at interest rates lately? Companies are not making money on their cash hoards. Companies are typically better off investing/deploying capital now given the very poor returns on cash.
openbox9

openbox9 to sonicmerlin

Premium Member

to sonicmerlin
Why aren't the teclos kicking off more cash then? Does all of this money that they're collecting and not giving to the owners just evaporate? There is no ripoff.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: Good for them..

said by openbox9:

Why aren't the teclos kicking off more cash then? Does all of this money that they're collecting and not giving to the owners just evaporate? There is no ripoff.

Kicking off more cash? These guys have posted increasing profits year after year. They lack competition. By definition of being monopolies or duopolies they will overprice. They're not struggling to survive, the way AMD is. There are no upstarts that can overturn the industry the way apple did in cell phones. It's infrastructure and the barrier of entry is too high. The fact that they are looking to cap users despite massive drops in the cost of bandwidth is direct evidence they're overcharging and lack true competition.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Good for them..

said by sonicmerlin:

Kicking off more cash? These guys have posted increasing profits year after year.

Yes, kicking off cash. These companies that are "ripping you off" should be distributing a lot more cash to investors. Increasing profits does not mean ripoff.
said by sonicmerlin:

They're not struggling to survive, the way AMD is.

I never said they are struggling for survival, nor is that relevant to the point you're attempting to make.
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Kamus to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

That is, obviously, because the ISPs aren't ripping people off. Though actual consumer opinions would have you believe otherwise.

There, fixed it for you.
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO
·Google Fiber

me1212 to kontos

Member

to kontos
said by kontos:

said by silbaco:

It's a Muni, not a charity.

That's true, but if those are the prices they need to charge in order to recover costs, it doesn't support the theme you hear in these parts that "the incumbent ISPs are ripping us off by keeping prices high and speeds low."

Some isps *can* get bandwidth cheaper so there are a few (att for instance, since they like google own internet backbone) that do rip off some(and all isps with caps do in a way too) but the prices they charge aren't as bad as some would have you believe.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: Good for them..

the only internet backbone Google owns is for their own network. They actually do not own anything else. They don't have a fiber network that spans the world such as VZ or ATT or even L3.
dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21
Crystal Lake, IL

dfxmatt to kontos

Member

to kontos
this is because you're looking at pure service price.

if you look at this from the actual incumbents you can add probably 30% to the cost in terms of BS fees. As this is muni it's likely there are none of those fees.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: Good for them..

Most FTTH services don't have BS fees. Can't have a modem rental fee if you don't have a modem.
dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21
Crystal Lake, IL

dfxmatt

Member

Re: Good for them..

modem rental fee is probably the only legitimate fee actually, because a: it spells out what it really is and b: you can eliminate the fee by obtaining your own device.

I'm referring to USF, service fee, etc.

treich
join:2006-12-12

treich to silbaco

Member

to silbaco
Yes FTTH services/ISP's can charge you modem rental fees its called NID-FTTH box the thing sits outside on ur house to supply fiber to ur house.

somms
join:2003-07-28
Centerville, UT

somms

Member

Re: Good for them..

Can't speak for all FTTH installs but there is no fiber box on the outside of the house here. With Utopia, the fiber comes into the home and terminates into a Allied Telesis fiber gateway...
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco to treich

Premium Member

to treich
They could potentially I suppose. But I don't know of any company doing that. That would be like charging for a demarc.

PaulHikeS2
join:2003-03-06
Fitchburg, MA

PaulHikeS2 to dfxmatt

Member

to dfxmatt
said by dfxmatt:

this is because you're looking at pure service price.

if you look at this from the actual incumbents you can add probably 30% to the cost in terms of BS fees. As this is muni it's likely there are none of those fees.

I have Comcast. No fees at all for internet. I cannot speak for other providers as I don't use them.
dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21
Crystal Lake, IL

dfxmatt

Member

Re: Good for them..

yeah, I guess I forgot most of it is tacked on to TV and whatnot.

PaulHikeS2
join:2003-03-06
Fitchburg, MA

PaulHikeS2

Member

Re: Good for them..

Yup, that's my experience.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to kontos

Member

to kontos
said by kontos:

said by silbaco:

It's a Muni, not a charity.

That's true, but if those are the prices they need to charge in order to recover costs, it doesn't support the theme you hear in these parts that "the incumbent ISPs are ripping us off by keeping prices high and speeds low."

The private competitors have already paid off the cost of their lines, have an established user base, and have massive economies of scale. Meanwhile the mini has to pay off the cost of its newly laid fiber, has to snatch customers away from the competition (which requires costly advertising), has to spend money on continued expansion of their network, and has far smaller economies of scale. Hence the costs.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Good for them..

So if incumbents roll new infrastructure and raise rates, that's ok?
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: Good for them..

said by openbox9:

So if incumbents roll new infrastructure and raise rates, that's ok?

What does your inane rhetorical question have to do with what I wrote? Does rolling out new lines eliminate their economies of scale? Does it cancel the massive piles of cash on hand? Does it force them to snatch away customers from an entrenched competitor? You didn't even try addressing my comment.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Good for them..

You justified higher prices because of increased costs. A logical connection. I was merely asking if you would be so kind to incumbents raising rates for deploying/upgrading infrastructure? And yes, it was mostly rhetorical because I'm guessing the answer is no, you would not be as kind.

WEEDmon
El Loco
join:2007-04-26
Greenville, NC

WEEDmon to gatorkram

Member

to gatorkram
Wish we had Wilson, NC Greenlight Project speeds here in Greenville, NC. It would be awesome to have more download and upload speeds Wilson has for the same price I'm paying for at Suddenlink.
brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL

brianiscool

Member

Prices are a rip off!

They don't even come close to Google Fiber prices.
At least Verzion FIOS charges $99 for 150Mbps.

••••••••••

wizkid6
join:2002-03-31
Opelika, AL

wizkid6

Member

Opelika, anyone?

Now if only the Opelika Light & Power department would get their ducks in a row.

All the fiber has been laid underground, yet they still haven't strung it on the poles yet.

Their excuse? "Still finalizing packages." They've been saying that for months now.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: Opelika, anyone?

Supposed to be completed this spring isn't it?

wizkid6
join:2002-03-31
Opelika, AL

wizkid6

Member

Re: Opelika, anyone?

Well, that's what they say. If I don't see them stringing fiber on the poles by the end of May, then that will mean there's been a big roadblock. June/July is stretching it, but still reasonable.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Well if they can...

If they already have the infrastructure and this is just little more to invest to bring the speed up they should be offering it for at least the same price they currently offer 100mb for.

asdfsa
@comcast.net

asdfsa

Anon

Who cares about 1Gbps

Who cares about 1Gbps when the price is gouted to high

somms
join:2003-07-28
Centerville, UT

somms

Member

Why so much for 100Mb/s tier!

»www.freeutopia.org/2013/ ··· nt-59783

Damn these prices are steep...currently paying $45/month for 100Mb/s symmetrical but would upgrage to gigabit speeds if it was being offered at GoogleFiber prices...

••••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

$

It cost no more money to make gpons vs bpons these days. The next cost hurdle will be 100gig ONTs & 10 gig home networking equipment. This is why fiber carriers should push the limits on gpons and give the consumer the unlimited capacity of it and their home networking equipment.

I wonder if it will take Google spilling into NYC with gigabit before Verizon realizes they missed the golden opportunity.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Re: $

Push the limits and therefore raise their operating costs and cap future revenue growth just so a tiny fraction of their users who almost none of which even be able to take advantage of the speeds are happy? That makes no sense, whatsoever.

Verizon is not missing any opportunities. Fios is the fastest service in every area it is in and they could turn on gigabit with ease should Google even consider entering NYC.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

Re: $

I disagree, just because you think most people wouldn't use the higher speeds for something useful such as stream HI-DEF uncompressed video, doesn't mean that these kinds of applications aren't the future of video. Not as many consumers are stuck in the past of buying cable tv subscriptions as you might think. I know many consumers are sick and tired of watching OTA propaganda and the watered down cable-tv isn't any better.. in most cases on weekends- it's worse.

At some point, more bandwidth will not be useful to the residential customer, but we are far from there and very far from a competitive marketplace (entry level stands at 15 megabits even in NYC).. if anything prices are rising-- unfortunately for BOTH incumbents this is true proving my point. Would Verizon offer a better deal if Google came to town? I doubt it.. $70 is a very low price. Both incumbents would Napalm the airwaves with anti google propaganda and underhanded lobbying to keep it out. This is a market with millions of potential customers-- at the top of the top 6 markets. If they lose here, they stand a good chance of losing everywhere.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Yay!

for another handful of people lucky enough to get it. * y a w n *

richrockstar
join:2013-04-22
Wake Forest, NC

richrockstar

Member

heh

All 5 people in Wilson, NC are so thrilled right now!