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Comments on news posted 2013-05-08 10:02:03: As I've been discussing, law enforcement and intelligence agencies are making a strong new push to mandate backdoors in e-mail, cloud storage services, social networking websites and other encrypted services to make real-time wiretapping easier. ..

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westdc
join:2009-01-25
Amissville, VA

2 recommendations

westdc

Member

Fines =Tax

A Democrat knows no Difference just "free Money to steal.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

1 recommendation

StuartMW

Premium Member

Par for the course

BTW I don't think it matters which political party is in power in regards to this stuff. Both sides want the ability to listen in on everything.

In public both say

• It's to protect the children.

• It's to protect us from terrorists.

Of course the real reason is to increase gummint power. The irony is that the 3-letter agencies listen to Congresscritters just as much as the rest of us.

When you allow agencies to know everything about everyone bad things are going to happen and sooner rather than later.

. o O (Has anyone learned the lesson of Hoover etc. Imagine him with today's capabilities)
amungus
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
America

1 recommendation

amungus to westdc

Premium Member

to westdc

Re: Fines =Tax

Neither party gives two shits, let alone one.

"Concealed within his fortress, the lord of Mordor sees all. His gaze pierces cloud, shadow, earth, and flesh. You know of what I speak, Gandalf: a great Eye, lidless, wreathed in flame."
—Saruman
n0ym
join:2004-12-21
Montgomery Village, MD

n0ym

Member

If a judge is involved, fine

That's the way the system is supposed to work: warrants/court orders.
easonin
Rock Ridge, FL
join:2008-07-08

easonin

Member

A m e r i c a ! ! !

Fuck Yeah!!!

meeeeeeeeee
join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

meeeeeeeeee

Member

I could be all for this

IF there were fines and prison terms for the "Law Enforcement" and "Intelligence" people who abuse it that are actually enforced. It's time for "selective" enforcement of the law to end in this country. The Constitution mentions no "privileged class".
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom to n0ym

Member

to n0ym

Re: If a judge is involved, fine

This is like paying extra to have locks on your doors that the government can open with a master key, it's not even close to how the "system is supposed to work"

drjosh121
join:2002-01-06
Matthews, NC

drjosh121 to easonin

Member

to easonin

Re: A m e r i c a ! ! !

+1

Twaddle
@sbcglobal.net

Twaddle

Anon

Welcome to the 4th Reich

Does anyone else see a re-occurring theme here? Same tactics (different technologies) were used by the Gestapo to subdue and neutralize the ability of the German population to react to the government.
Our esteemed Congress, President and Supreme Court are rapidly turning into nothing but worthless pretenders who have illegally gutted our Constitution and our rule of law. Yes there are bad people out there and yes we need some way of keeping them at bay but at what price? Guilty until proven innocent, no recourse to government search and seizure, no trial by peers no due process, questionable incarcerations, collateral deaths are considered acceptable. Encrypted messages are NOT illegal (yet) and unless there is a warrant with a genuine reason issued then stay out of my private life. I personally have never sent an encrypted message(no reason to but this may change with the Federal government tactics)

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob to easonin

Member

to easonin

Re: A m e r i c a ! ! !

said by easonin:

Fuck Yeah!!!

Comin' in to save the Mutha F**kin' Day Yeah!

Great Movie.

Big Brother is making me tired.

Dave
buckweet1980
join:2011-12-31
Saint Petersburg, FL

buckweet1980 to meeeeeeeeee

Member

to meeeeeeeeee

Re: I could be all for this

Government doesn't pay attention to the constitution anymore..

throwaway486
@bridge360.com

throwaway486 to westdc

Anon

to westdc

Re: Fines =Tax

Obama is such a disappointment. At least Bush/Cheney punched you in the face and took your rights. This guy gives you some flowery speech and stabs you in the back.
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom to Twaddle

Member

to Twaddle

Re: Welcome to the 4th Reich

The same trend seems to be active in many countries. Maybe the Arab Spring and the London riots created some panic amongst the elites? Guess we won't really know what is going on until it has already happened

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po to Twaddle

Premium Member

to Twaddle
^^^Godwin's Law proved right once again... :P

Edit: Not disagreeing with anything you typed just adding a little humor to a very sad thread.

n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

n2jtx to westdc

Member

to westdc

Re: Fines =Tax

said by westdc:

A Democrat knows no Difference just "free Money to steal.

Neither the Democrat's or Republican's give a hoot about the people. Just look at what six years of Republican rule brought us from 2001 to 2007 and two years of Democrat rule from 2009 to 2011. We lose no matter who is running the show. Better to have the mess we have now with split government.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to n0ym

Premium Member

to n0ym

Re: If a judge is involved, fine

said by n0ym:

That's the way the system is supposed to work: warrants/court orders.

And the law mandating ability to tap conversations is many years old. The telcos just ignored the law. If they won't comply fine the hell out of them.
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus

Member

Government should pay for this

The government should pay for the consultants and hardware required to make their spying happen. This proposal reminds me of China executing political dissidents with a firing squad, and sending their family the bill for the bullets.

fatpipe
join:2011-10-02
Austin, TX

fatpipe

Member

Please Help me to Understand

OK, if a service claims to be "encrypted", then how does one create a "backdoor" so the demonic government can analyze the data?

Isn't this a contradiction? I thought once data was encrypted (assuming the encryption has not been broken which as I understand it is highly unlikely) then the data would be undecipherable, therefore making a backdoor would not be feasible.

For example, take a workstation that has been encrypted with PGP Whole Disk Encryption. Does the government have a backdoor to decrypt the hard drive and read the contents? Am I mixing apples and oranges here???

Come on encryption gurus, help me to understand this concept.

dslcreature
Premium Member
join:2010-07-10
Seattle, WA

dslcreature

Premium Member

CALEA does not apply to information services

CALEA is for tapping signal and or data channels of subscribers. The legislation *explicitly* declared "information services" such as web sites and messaging providers to be out of scope of CALEA.

It is quite amusing to now hear this being spun as some sort of compliance issue rather than what it is... a breathtaking new grant of authority.

The answer to 1984 is RFC 1984.

hyphenated
@bellsouth.net

hyphenated to fatpipe

Anon

to fatpipe

Re: Please Help me to Understand

No guru here just thinking, you wan't necessarily have to break encryption to have a "backdoor".
firedrakes
join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

firedrakes to fatpipe

Member

to fatpipe
reminds me of V for Vendetta subject matter

atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium Member
join:2004-02-14
EC/SETX SWLA

atuarre to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW

Re: Par for the course

said by StuartMW:

BTW I don't think it matters which political party is in power in regards to this stuff. Both sides want the ability to listen in on everything.

In public both say

• It's to protect the children.

• It's to protect us from terrorists.

Of course the real reason is to increase gummint power. The irony is that the 3-letter agencies listen to Congresscritters just as much as the rest of us.

When you allow agencies to know everything about everyone bad things are going to happen and sooner rather than later.

. o O (Has anyone learned the lesson of Hoover etc. Imagine him with today's capabilities)

Nah. I doubt they are listening to members of congress.

NOCTech75
Premium Member
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

1 recommendation

NOCTech75 to n2jtx

Premium Member

to n2jtx

Re: Fines =Tax

My only issue with Obama and his game of continuing nearly every police he pontificated about was he stated more then once he was going to change how Washington did business. When he started making those promises... it's on him now.

fatpipe
join:2011-10-02
Austin, TX

fatpipe to hyphenated

Member

to hyphenated

Re: Please Help me to Understand

Please explain how you would do this. Because if encryption has a "backdoor", then in my opinion one cannot call it encryption or am I'm completely wrong in my understanding of encryption.

joako
Premium Member
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null

joako

Premium Member

It can be encrypted all you want but the question is do you and only you control the encryption keys? Otherwise it's worthless. Many services do encrypt but also keep the keys for your convenience.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

Oh_No

Member

Email should never have a backdoor

No way should any government order give access to email.
Just because new technology can log things does not mean things should be logged.
These anti-privacy laws are just going to destroy the "server" market in the US as companies and end users will want to use servers in countries with privacy laws.
Why would anyone want to use US companies and servers when they know their data wont be private??

When it comes to new technology, the laws need to mandated that no logs are kept and that no logs can be used against someone.
The same goes for email.
The end user should have 100% control over who can access their logs and records that tie to their name or any identifying information.

Pre-email you would have a stack of paper that you could burn or lock in a safe and no court could ever find it or get it unless it was stolen from you.
Email laws need to keep the same level of privacy making the end users the 100% owner of all logs and records of emails and only going through the end user can those records be accessed.
So if the end user does not give up the records then no one should be allowed to use them.

All they are doing with this BS is forcing people to run their own web and email servers or use web an email servers in other countries with protections.
Oh_No

1 recommendation

Oh_No to n0ym

Member

to n0ym

Re: If a judge is involved, fine

said by n0ym:

That's the way the system is supposed to work: warrants/court orders.

No way.
No company should be keeping any kind of identifying logs of their customers.
The end user customer should have 100% control of any identifying logs, records, saved emails. The only way a court should be able to get these records is GOING THROUGH the end user only.

Gaining access to someones private logs, records, and saved emails is like making someone testify against themselves.

It is against the 5th Amendment of the constitution for self incrimination.
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom to axus

Member

to axus

Re: Government should pay for this

Doesn't really make much difference whether customers or taxpayers have to pay to be spied on
ShellMMG
join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI

ShellMMG to NOCTech75

Member

to NOCTech75

Re: Fines =Tax

Obama was against it before he was for it.

kevinds
Premium Member
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB

kevinds to fatpipe

Premium Member

to fatpipe

Re: Please Help me to Understand

It is still encypted, but there would be two or more keys,

Your key that you use, and one or more backdoor keys that work too.
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