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Comments on news posted 2013-05-14 09:18:21: The Justice Department is under fire for obtaining two months of telephone records for twenty different lines used by reporters and editors for The Associated Press. Said data included phone numbers, names, calls made, and potentially call duration. ..


Hazy Arc
join:2006-04-10
Greenwood, SC

1 recommendation

Hazy Arc

Member

First the IRS Debacle, and Now This?

What country am I living in?

SysOp
join:2001-04-18
Atlanta, GA

SysOp

Member

Re: First the IRS Debacle, and Now This?

I have yet to read any news where phone or internet logs have been used for good.

So far I've only seen where this type of power is being used for evil.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium Member
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170

1 recommendation

skeechan to Hazy Arc

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to Hazy Arc
First the IRS debacle?

More like 203rd the IRS debacle and now this.

Cabal
Premium Member
join:2007-01-21

1 recommendation

Cabal to Hazy Arc

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to Hazy Arc
How many gross violations of the Constitution would it take for people to rise up against an unjust government?

5?

10?

...

1000?
ShellMMG
join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI

ShellMMG

Member

Re: First the IRS Debacle, and Now This?

It'll take the loss of free or subsidized TV combined with the cancellation of Jeopardy and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.

The AP is feeling a lot of butthurt because they're afraid Obama might not consider them "special." They'll be cozying up again before too long.

koitsu
MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
Humax BGW320-500

1 recommendation

koitsu to Cabal

MVM

to Cabal
said by Cabal:

How many gross violations of the Constitution would it take for people to rise up against an unjust government?

It probably won't happen during either of our lifetimes.

Today, we Americans are too apathetic, or respond with a never-ending list of excuses as reasons for why we "can't" (there are a common 10-20 reasons often given). But even if we could overcome that fact, there's this reality: small dissenting marches/riots (say, under a thousand people) don't matter any more -- we're too physically large a country for such things to make a difference, and the method/approach is often done in such a way where after the event everyone is back-patting and thinking they "did their part" without being able to admit that chances are it will have absolutely zero impact in the grand scheme of things. For example, ask any Aussie or Kiwi about the United States, and eventually they'll say "you're just too [physically] big a country to change", and they're right.

What we cannot come to grasps with is the root cause (in some way or another): money. Capitalist/commercial cynosure, combined with exorbitant self-focus (vs. thinking about "the group" -- an idea/thought that proliferates heavily throughout Asia), will be our demise. Combine these with an unhealthy fixation on extroverted personality and you have an extremely volatile (read: dangerous) situation. We have no one to blame but ourselves for the proliferation of all these problems: the rest of the world has sat by and watched (and suffered as well, since we have our grubby fingers in way too many international pies).

All said, we could learn a lot from the French, quite honestly (and note the irony, bordering on karmatic: Americans dumping French wine WRT the Iraq situation...). But true reformation begins in the mind, and begins at home.
Binderdondat
join:2012-04-04
Johnstown, PA

Binderdondat

Member

Re: First the IRS Debacle, and Now This?

How can you say it any better than this respondent?

We can choose to become part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Unfortunately, this will not happen until a major, life altering societal event occurs.

History has proven this true - many times.

disconnected
@108.210.131.x

disconnected to Cabal

Anon

to Cabal
said by Cabal:

How many gross violations of the Constitution would it take for people to rise up against an unjust government?

5?

10?

...

1000?

Well there is Adam Kokesh's armed march on Washington DC this July 4th. He's being laughed at by a lot of people, but I'll admit he's got more balls than 99% of the 'keyboard warriors' out there.
Ghoul
join:2001-02-04
Mastic Beach, NY

1 recommendation

Ghoul to Hazy Arc

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to Hazy Arc
The media is using the "exapansion" technique to dilute the seriousness of this.

The real issue isn't how an agency controlled by the White House is being used as a weapon to attack groups that disagree with the government, but how "non-profit" groups are defined.

See, according to the MSM it's not a terrible, evil thing, but an "opportunity" to reform the regulations governing non-profit.

M35
@wideopenwest.com

M35 to Hazy Arc

Anon

to Hazy Arc
One with laws called FISA/PATRIOT act. Oops, better watch what I am saying! The AP didn't think their are being snooped upon with these laws?

meeeeeeeeee
join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 recommendation

meeeeeeeeee to Hazy Arc

Member

to Hazy Arc
said by Hazy Arc:

What country am I living in?

You'll be pleased to know that the Justice Department announced that they are going to investigate the IRS for any wrong doing. Afterwards, maybe the IRS can investigate the Justice department for the AP thing and then they can go back to playing patty-cake together and stomping on our rights some more.

ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

2 recommendations

ropeguru

Premium Member

Funny....

How this kind of news is never reported in the MSM until it hapens to them...
bnceo
join:2007-10-11
Bel Air, MD

2 recommendations

bnceo

Member

More Bothered By Obama comment now

It is our job as American citizens to hold our government responsible. And when that government fears losing and starts doing everything to protect its power, including violating the very founding documents of our land, that is when its time to revolt. And for government to "reject those voices" who speak of government tyranny, I point to this story, the IRS, AT&T/Verizon/Sprint cooperation, and more like it. Government from the get go can't be trusted by the very fact that they hold all the cards.

Below is the part of the graduation speech President Obama gave that irks me.

Unfortunately, you’ve grown up hearing voices that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that’s at the root of all our problems. Some of these same voices also do their best to gum up the works. They’ll warn that tyranny always lurking just around the corner. You should reject these voices. Because what they suggest is that our brave, and creative, and unique experiment in self-rule is somehow just a sham with which we can’t be trusted.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 recommendation

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: More Bothered By Obama comment now

Perhaps this gobbling up of AP reporter information will result in a press that's slightly more attentive to the fact that we've got a serious problem on our hands -- and one that also impacts them

And perhaps not. Obama is untouchable by the liberal MSM. A huge change from the previous president where the press would have been demanding impeachment.
Ghoul
join:2001-02-04
Mastic Beach, NY

Ghoul

Member

Re: More Bothered By Obama comment now

They're already twisting themselves into knots to justify this. I fully expect these lines of reasoning:

"Dear Leader works in mysterious ways, and to question Him means you are a racist.

"He only hurts us because he loves us"

And the best one....

"It's like a parent using a baby monitor, they do it because they want to keep us safe".

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207

Premium Member

Just Us Department

The press is a significant part of the serious, bipartisan problem.

Don't we want "justice"? The only way to be sure is to monitor everything that we say and track us everywhere we go. Better start learning Mandarin, because this place is going to rip itself apart from the inside out.
Ghoul
join:2001-02-04
Mastic Beach, NY

Ghoul

Member

Re: Just Us Department

Bipartisan problem? They don't seem to have a problem keeping close tabs on Republicans.

firephoto
Truth and reality matters
Premium Member
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

firephoto

Premium Member

Re: Just Us Department

said by Ghoul:

Bipartisan problem? They don't seem to have a problem keeping close tabs on Republicans.

It's called getting caught or not hiding what you're legally doing.

The previous strategy was spy domestically, then yell OOH SHINY, look TERRERERISTS! then let 3 news cycles forget about a single reporters question.

Seriously. We had administrations that constantly hunted for bad guys and gathered information and formulated long term strategies which put is in some long drawn out battles that are still ongoing. Now we have one that gets intel and acts on it piece by piece with heads on a stick in some cases which doesn't play into the previous long term strategies.

And it's all about money. Which makes more money, tracking terrorists for decades looking for more terrorists or finding a terrorists and shooting him?

And the AP is whining because they got caught reporting on restricted information handed to them by someone who is not allowed to be handing it out and in the case of a news reporting agency the purpose is for profit. In the case of the IRS targeting the tea party types, tracking the statistics make it look like the targeting of mostly tea party groups because I'd bet that the majority of new political groups at that period of time was tea party groups because there aren't a whole slew of small new liberal or progressive groups popping up in every neighborhood at the same time. And when you tax status application has comments or names that imply you are against paying taxes then you're damn straight it should be scrutinized by the tax authority.

It's a bunch of bs all around from all sides too, no politicians want openness , they want info compartmentalized to be able to gain monetarily from it or allow select others to gain from it, not everyone. This is the majority premise for a secretive government in modern times.

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

cork1958 to jmn1207

Premium Member

to jmn1207
said by jmn1207:

The press is a significant part of the serious, bipartisan problem.

Don't we want "justice"? The only way to be sure is to monitor everything that we say and track us everywhere we go. Better start learning Mandarin, because this place is going to rip itself apart from the inside out.

I don't know about the bipartisan problem, but they sure as hell are a significant part!!
ericthered26
join:2011-09-29
Hamilton, OH

2 recommendations

ericthered26

Member

HA

Under Bush the headline would have been "Bush Administration Taps AP Phone Lines". Obama already got a pass on this one.

PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

PapaMidnight

Member

Re: HA

said by ericthered26:

Under Bush the headline would have been "Bush Administration Taps AP Phone Lines". Obama already got a pass on this one.

And I quote...
"It was already made clear that a supposedly "progressive" Obama administration wasn't at all progressive given their disregard for wiretap laws and their attack on whistleblowers, and this rather ham-fisted trampling of the Constitution and the rights of the press to protect its sources only makes that clearer still."

Read the article before you claim that the authors are playing favorites.
Ghoul
join:2001-02-04
Mastic Beach, NY

Ghoul

Member

Re: HA

Since when does "progressivism" have anything to do with that "outdated" and "constraining" document written 200 years ago by rich white male slaveholders?

This is entirely in line with progressivism...win at all costs.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

amarryat

Member

Re: HA

said by Ghoul:

that "outdated" and "constraining" document written 200 years ago by rich white male slaveholders?

What document was written 200 years ago by rich white male slaveholders?
ericthered26
join:2011-09-29
Hamilton, OH

ericthered26 to PapaMidnight

Member

to PapaMidnight
I don't need to read anything. I said headline......

Gork
Ou812ic
join:2001-10-06
Bountiful, UT

Gork

Member

Govt vs AP

Hopefully a line has been crossed and we can now make some headway with shutting this irresponsible practice down.

firephoto
Truth and reality matters
Premium Member
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

firephoto

Premium Member

Re: Govt vs AP

said by Gork:

Hopefully a line has been crossed and we can now make some headway with shutting this irresponsible practice down.

I agree, letting this sometimes classified information leak to news agencies for the purpose of profiteering on it should be eliminated as to protect the security of this country.
Rekrul
join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT

Rekrul to Gork

Member

to Gork
said by Gork:

Hopefully a line has been crossed and we can now make some headway with shutting this irresponsible practice down.

They'll probably just pass a law making what they did retroactively legal, like they did with the warrantless wiretapping.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

Re: Govt vs AP

said by Rekrul:

They'll probably just pass a law making what they did retroactively legal, like they did with the warrantless wiretapping.

No need, what they did is already legal under current laws.

/M

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium Member
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170

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skeechan

Premium Member

The most transparent administration ever, ever


Tricky Barry
Carter II is looking more like Nixon II.

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD

newview

Premium Member

So glad ...

... the DOJ and the carriers who provide the means to spy on innocent people have finally shot themselves in the foot.

Telcogate?
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus

Member

Re: So glad ...

More like the AP realizes how much power the media has lost in the last 15 years, and life carries on.

What should have happened is that DOJ collected records for all of the government's phone records, and sifted through that for calls to AP reporters.

In the future, reporters and sources will learn to use Wikileaks style communication methods. Right now, there are no governments respecting privacy.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: So glad ...

That's what I told my dad. I thought the monitoring was on the wrong side of the crime. Of course your suggestion would have been a much taller order and if the government leak used a non-government phone, they would have missed the call. Still, even with "national security" at stake, we're not in a state of war, right? Therefore I think tapping all inbound calls of an organization that is not suspected of being criminal seems backwards.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey to axus

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to axus
said by axus:

What should have happened is that DOJ collected records for all of the government's phone records, and sifted through that for calls to AP reporters.

How exactly would they do that? Is there a list of all reporters' phone numbers somewhere?

They can now go back and sift through the gov't phone records now that they have built the list of numbers.

/M

mech1164
I'll Be Back
join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ

mech1164

Member

Well

This is what happens when you have a government that doesn't have anything to fear. They start small but as they see people who should be holding them accountable. Instead are covering for them and going after the people who are doing their job.

Now since they believe they are untouchable they overreach to the extreme. This might be the time when the MSM realize they have to not be a cheerleader but hold to account these politicians. Some will many though would rather disbelieve instead.

The next couple of weeks will tell.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Well

said by mech1164:

Now since they believe they are untouchable they overreach to the extreme. This might be the time when the MSM realize they have to not be a cheerleader but hold to account these politicians. Some will many though would rather disbelieve instead.

The next couple of weeks will tell.

It will quickly die down. The MSM would have been howling for Bush's hide, but Obama will get a pass and the total outrage will quickly disappear when the reporter's editors get their marching orders from the DNC to squash the story.

meeeeeeeeee
join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

meeeeeeeeee

Member

Ho Hum....

Nothing new, been going on for decades... nothing's going to happen... the sheeple are too stupid and lazy to do a thing.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Pot, Kettle, Black.

So it's OK for the media to engage in such acts but not OK when it happens to them? Boo Fucking Hoo....

Don't take Boo Fucking Hoo as approval for the DOJ doing this, only that the AP finds it wrong when it happens to them.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Re: Pot, Kettle, Black.

I am sure Rupert Murdoch can give you a dissertation on the press engaging in snooping!
SilentMan
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY

SilentMan

Member

Even a Mouthpiece Gets it

Poor AP! Not even being the global US Government mouthpiece saves it from government spying. What now, AP? See how ungrateful the Washington mafia is after all the disinformation you have done for them?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK

Premium Member

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear,right?

Wrong.

I think there are quite a few Government agents who would like to be able to shut down the press's ability to report on what they selectively do not want revealed.
KrK

KrK

Premium Member

Obama. The Liberal media....

Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Meanwhile you support FISA. Retroactive immunity for law breakers. SOPA. PIPA. CISPA... and on and on it goes.

Look in the mirror, you'll see part of the problem.

Must be interesting position to be in, having to defend the "Liberal" media's rights from the Government. Well get used to it, because as they say... "You ain't seen nothing yet!"
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

Trust the government = oxymoron

These reporters are lazy.. what ever happened to doing covert work using encryption and on services such as disposable prepaid cellphones & other convert means?

Trust in politicians is at historic lows, but trust in other people who work for the government is for an entire generation near zero. These are the same people who could not be trusted to enforce mortgage banking financial security laws already on the books from when the economy collapsed in 2007. You could not trust them when the oil companies pushed oil + gasoline prices & profits to record levels bleeding the economy dry.

The current norms of operating government as others correctly point out infects both political parties in congress and presidential administrations of both parties. This increasingly proves the point that no matter which "PARTY" you vote for, YOU get stuck with the $$ BILL $$ and are accountable to NOBODY.. certainly not the voter. Why call it a political party anymore.. why not call it corrupt choice #X and corrupt choice #Y or corrupt red and corrupt blue.