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Comments on news posted 2013-06-07 10:12:47: If you thought that you could escape the watchful eye of the entertainment industry by signing up for an ISP that doesn't cooperate with the entertainment industry's new six strikes initiative, think again. ..

page: 1 · 2

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Worth it

You could infringe on $1000's before getting caught and IF you do, you just pony up a some dough. You still come out ahead.
--
Nocchi rules.

nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

1 recommendation

Re: Worth it

I was thinking the same thing.

Get a very popular CD, rip it and seed it for a day.

$20? That's a cheap way to enrich other people's lives.

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

Re: Worth it

$20 per infingement, so yea, go ahead and "seed it" for a day. You pay $20 to give it to someone, and they pay $20 for taking it. Its a great plan.

Never a piracy article without Karl endorsing the VPN workaround. You guys go through a lot of hassle just to break the law, it would be easier to simply not do it.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: Worth it

That is what the industry gets for engaging in bribery and extortion. If you are operating as a criminal syndicate, expect to be taken by other criminals.
--
Nocchi rules.
Rob_
Premium
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL
kudos:1

Re: Worth it

They think 128K/44 is CD quality, it's not. Uncompressed format/FLAC is. I don't like mp3s very much and, when Napster was big, I bought more CDs as a result of this, remember the Black Album by RIAATellica? That I discovered because of Morpheus, I went ahead and bought the CD.

-Rob

firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

2 recommendations

said by ITALIAN926:

$20 per infingement, so yea, go ahead and "seed it" for a day. You pay $20 to give it to someone, and they pay $20 for taking it. Its a great plan.

Never a piracy article without Karl endorsing the VPN workaround. You guys go through a lot of hassle just to break the law, it would be easier to simply not do it.

30 years ago I could buy a tape from a friend if he didn't like it. He could buy a new album every week and sometimes he just didn't like what he got so he sold the tape to someone else because he bought the tape, it was his, and he could sell it, sell that something he had.

Today they have convinced the public and lawmakers that the very practice of doing that is not acceptable. You borrow, you rent, you use for a limited time the media you are told you are "buying". They set up systems that detect infringement and deem guilty first then after months of wait deem if the use is fair or not or just let the complaint expire. They treat music and video that is produced by corporations entirely different than music or video produced by individuals. Individuals who are not given copyright enforcement tools, not given legal preference to infringing media use removal, not given an opportunity to have any say in how media is handled over a world wide public data network.

When the majority is not given the opportunity to make the laws they live by and then for some to proclaim how that majority is the bad guy for breaking those laws is just pure ignorance.
--
Say no to astroturfing. actions > Ignore Author

The Limit
Premium
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Not sure where you are reading that Karl endorses piracy...try again
Expand your moderator at work

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by ITALIAN926:

Never a piracy article without Karl endorsing the VPN workaround. You guys go through a lot of hassle just to break the law, it would be easier to simply not do it.

How is configuring a vpn ONCE a lot of hassle?

Many actually do the configuration automatically on install.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
They would make a ton of money if WB sold an infringement insurance policy. Pay the premium and if you get busted just cash in with your policy. Heh...
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.
Expand your moderator at work

BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Nite-Owl

join:2007-01-11

Stupid is as Stupid does.

So as a user of DSLXtreme whom is not a part of the 6-strikes dealie, were to "incur an infraction against Time Warner" an email would be sent to my DSLXtreme email. Demanding $20 without even the chance to pay the wonderful $35 challenge fee since said ISP doesn't participate in 6-strikes. So they are sending an email extorting $20 from me on an email account which I never use threatening me with disconnection via a company that doesn't own my connection?

Does it take all night for these morons to come up with this crap or does it just flow naturally at this point?

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

People who dont break copyright laws, and properly secure their routers, have little to worry about.
ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
·ooma
·VOIPO
·Verizon Broadban..

1 recommendation

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

said by ITALIAN926:

People who dont break copyright laws, and properly secure their routers, have little to worry about.

Properly secure their routers? Really? You do know it can take as little as 30 seconds and not much more than a few days to crack a router/AP, right?

Even with WPA2...

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

Theres no way in hell youre cracking my WPA2 WITH MAC filtering, aint happening, and if you do , you should be putting your skills to good use, not stealing last Season of Dexter of my internet connection.
familypizza

join:2013-01-07

1 recommendation

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

Just so we're clear... your setup can be cracked. All a person would have to do is capture the 4-way handshake when it takes place, then crack the password (via dictionary or brute force)

As for as MAC filtering goes... this literally adds zero additional security. Any sniffer worth it's salt would tell me the MAC addresses that are currently connected to your network, then all you would have to do is spoof that MAC address to satisfy the "high security MAC filtering"

For someone who knows what they're doing... it's trivial. Even more so if the password they are using is a dictionary word, or a 10 digit number (like a phone number)
Ammler
Premium
join:2005-04-19
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

And what about a series of random letters and numbers? I still say license plates make the best passwords.
ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
·ooma
·VOIPO
·Verizon Broadban..

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

said by Ammler:

And what about a series of random letters and numbers? I still say license plates make the best passwords.

It'll take a little longer. But not much. If you're my neighbor then it'll be game up.
ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
·ooma
·VOIPO
·Verizon Broadban..
said by ITALIAN926:

Theres no way in hell youre cracking my WPA2 WITH MAC filtering, aint happening, and if you do , you should be putting your skills to good use, not stealing last Season of Dexter of my internet connection.

I would strongly suggest you read up on how weak WiFi systems are.

And it doesn't take skills. Unless you count downloading an iso, sending it to a bootable USB key and booting from said USB key and clicking "Go" when the system boots - skills.
kitsune

join:2001-11-26
Sacramento, CA

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

said by ke4pym:

said by ITALIAN926:

Theres no way in hell youre cracking my WPA2 WITH MAC filtering, aint happening, and if you do , you should be putting your skills to good use, not stealing last Season of Dexter of my internet connection.

I would strongly suggest you read up on how weak WiFi systems are.

And it doesn't take skills. Unless you count downloading an iso, sending it to a bootable USB key and booting from said USB key and clicking "Go" when the system boots - skills.

I think you need to do a little more reading yourself. WPA2-AES is still difficult to crack. Certainly not going to break it in a few minutes. Especially if you are using a password of decent length.

Now if you are using the router from your service provider with WEP security, you are hosed. But that is not the current standard.
Jazzemt

join:2009-02-12
USA

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

It is not cracking the wpa. It is using a tool like Reaver and cracknig the WPS which is in most routers and cannot be turned off. And some of the ones where it can be turned off it is still crackable. At that point spofing the mac and knowing the WPS key you are assigned the WPA key and there is a tool or two to show what the wpa key is when you have it local. The longest I have seen it take was two hours. Usually under 30 minutes.
ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
·ooma
·VOIPO
·Verizon Broadban..

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

said by Jazzemt:

It is not cracking the wpa. It is using a tool like Reaver and cracknig the WPS which is in most routers and cannot be turned off. And some of the ones where it can be turned off it is still crackable. At that point spofing the mac and knowing the WPS key you are assigned the WPA key and there is a tool or two to show what the wpa key is when you have it local. The longest I have seen it take was two hours. Usually under 30 minutes.

Ditto
rahvin112

join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
It's not just WPS, with the password lists available with John the Ripper (or elsewhere) you can dictionary attack the password in almost no time at all. It's pretty rare actually that anything short of 12+ random numbers, letters and special characters isn't part of the lists. Before I switched to passphrases I grep'd almost every single password I use out of the lists, it was eyeopening.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

said by rahvin112:

It's pretty rare actually that anything short of 12+ random numbers, letters and special characters isn't part of the lists.

Really? I use pass-phrases, They take the form of "W#en T#e $un $h|n#$ |t'$ V#ry 3r|g#t 0ut$|d#" A 40 character+ pass-phrase with special characters replacing letters. Which can be remembered quite easily if you craft it intelligently. I don't think such a random phrase crafted this way will show up on any list, and the number of combinations and permutations is beyond the capability of anything short of a bank of supercomputers to discover in time to make the discovery usable. I use such pass-phrases on my computers as well.

Short of cracking the algorithm itself, which as far as I know has not been done yet, systems protected this way are as secure as they can be.

--
"Remember, remember the fifth of November.
Gunpowder, Treason and Plot.
I see no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot."

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people"

familypizza

join:2013-01-07

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

said by TamaraB:

said by rahvin112:

It's pretty rare actually that anything short of 12+ random numbers, letters and special characters isn't part of the lists.

Really? I use pass-phrases, They take the form of "W#en T#e $un $h|n#$ |t'$ V#ry 3r|g#t 0ut$|d#" A 40 character+ pass-phrase with special characters replacing letters. Which can be remembered quite easily if you craft it intelligently. I don't think such a random phrase crafted this way will show up on any list, and the number of combinations and permutations is beyond the capability of anything short of a bank of supercomputers to discover in time to make the discovery usable. I use such pass-phrases on my computers as well.

Short of cracking the algorithm itself, which as far as I know has not been done yet, systems protected this way are as secure as they can be.

For sure, except the people posting in here about their non dictionary 30+ character passwords (with special characters) do not reflect what 95% of people actually use.

No one is trying to say AES is weak... they're trying to say if you use a weak / semi weak password (which most normal users do) then you are susceptible to having their network possibly used by unauthorized users.
davidkassa

join:2013-06-03
Madison, WI
This is a pretty good method, but crackers definitely know this "trick". I encourage everyone to read this article. »arstechnica.com/security/2013/05···sswords/

It talks about how even pass-phrases are easily cracked when simple substitution is used. The ultimate recommendation is use a password manager and make your long passwords truly random.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
Crack WPA2 in 30 seconds? Not going to happen.

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

My WPA2 is VERRRRRRY long, these guys are insane. These guys actually use weak encryption as a reason to break copyright law. If you all stop doing it, we wouldnt need to encrypt with 30+ character WPA2

firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

1 recommendation

said by ITALIAN926:

People who dont break copyright laws, and properly secure their routers, have little to worry about.

So you've never saved an image you've seen on the internet? Copied and pasted some text? Acquired some pdf files?

You have most certainly broke copyright laws even if you do not download videos and music from file sharing networks.

Now go on and explain to me how it is different.
--
Say no to astroturfing. actions > Ignore Author
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX
Adorable, you actually believe you haven't infringed copyright.

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

Not purposefully, or intentionally. Id like you to claim that torrent software accidentally appeared on your computer, along with 9 seasons of Seinfeld. Adorable.
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

1 recommendation

Re: Stupid is as Stupid does.

said by ITALIAN926:

Not purposefully, or intentionally

Oh, so that makes it OK then? Double standards much?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Well that doesn't include you, then?
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Actually WPA2-AES still takes a very very very long time to crack even with GPU arrays. At least once you start hitting 16 character or more keys.

And today it is so easy to break the law. Copy that DVD to your media center? just broke the DMCA. Lend that DVD to a friend you are now breaking copyright law unless you delete the copy on your media server. Heck if you show a movie while you have a bunch of non family company technically that has to be licensed, Yes legally Disney could sue someone showing a movie at their kid's bday party or sue a school when they ask people to bring movies to show on the coach bus.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Sore losers...

These guys are doing everything they can to make sure the US sucks in broadband.

In the end they'll still lose.

karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

Extortion...

Extortion (also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offence of unlawfully obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups.

In the United States, extortion may also be committed as a federal crime across a computer system, phone, by mail or in using any instrument of interstate commerce. Extortion requires that the individual sent the message willingly and knowingly as elements of the crime. The message only has to be sent (but does not have to reach the intended recipient) to commit the crime of extortion.
--
Remember 1 in 4 people are retarded. 25% of Americans are Republican. Coincidence? I don't think so.
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

1 recommendation

Making VPN's illegal

Yeah, that'll work. First, many companies rely on VPN's, so they won't take too kindly to them being outlawed. Second, if the idea is to only outlaw these particular services, while there may be some slim chance that they could pull it off with services based in the U.S., there would be no way they could do the same for foreign ones, which is what many people are going to use anyway. About the best they could do is try to keep people from using credit cards to pay for them, but then people will just buy Bitcoins and use those instead.

The problem with all these efforts is that the entertainment industry is waging an arms race against a very large group of people who generally aren't in it for the money--they're in it for the challenge of staying one step ahead of these companies. And those kind of people tend to live and breathe this stuff. They don't clock out a 5 and forget about it; they are constantly working on it. If VPN's are shut down, they'll begin work on something else.

fatpipe

join:2011-10-02
Austin, TX

Re: Making VPN's illegal

said by ISurfTooMuch:

If VPN's are shut down, they'll begin work on something else.

I tire so much from all these limp-penises attempting to shackle the User with their draconian control methods.

Thanks, ISurfTooMuch, for your succint retort.

Next!
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
Outlawing VPNs is a very possible reality. Our government has no limit of incompetence and is not required to have any intimate knowledge of the consequences on the laws they pass. If the entertainment industry puts a law before them outlawing VPNs with an enforcement that ISPs must use DPI to detect use of VPNs, then they will win. All they have to do is either say it is "to protect the children" or "fight terrorism" and people will not only accept it, they will willingly embrace it. If worked right, they could use both and then even the grandma's will come out in support.
ADL

join:2000-12-20
USA

Seems Fair

Saves costly legal fees and $20 is manageable.

•••

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Avoid alerts - don't deal in copyrighted videos

Granted there's still nothing that prohibits any user on any ISP from dodging these alerts entirely by signing up for a BitTorrent Proxy or VPN service

You can also dodge the alerts by not download/uploading copyrighted videos in the 1st place.
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

••••••
DanteX

join:2010-09-09
kudos:1

WHo am I hurting

I downloaded the new Fast and Furious Movie which has made well over 500million dollars. Who am I hurting?

I would like to also point out I paid for a ticket to go see the movie in theaters as well.

Hollywood Extorts bribes and come sup with secret laws that the people have no say in mean while us the so called pirates do not threaten , do not extort nor do we bribe. we share with others. The stuff we share with other creates exposure for the product and oif the product is exposed just enough profit can be made because if someone likes what they see or hear they will make a purchase.

I am sitting on over 500 DVDS and 200 blurays the majority of which I would not have bought if i couldn't download and see if i liked the material first.

More and more studys are coming out proving Pirates spend more money then anyone else.

••••

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Not Spam

So they're going to e-mail users, tell them "this isn't spam", and encourage them to click on a link to pay money? And when a rational user says "this sounds fishy" and tosses it in the spam bin (or when it's auto-spam-binned), will the user be sued for thousands of dollars? Are they forgetting Rule #1 of E-mail? NEVER CLICK ON LINKS IN AN E-MAIL MESSAGE!
--
-Jason Levine

Cthen

join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI
Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..

Re: Not Spam

said by Jason Levine:

So they're going to e-mail users, tell them "this isn't spam", and encourage them to click on a link to pay money? And when a rational user says "this sounds fishy" and tosses it in the spam bin (or when it's auto-spam-binned), will the user be sued for thousands of dollars? Are they forgetting Rule #1 of E-mail? NEVER CLICK ON LINKS IN AN E-MAIL MESSAGE!

Yea no shit. People have been preaching about that up and down even on local news. They are even told that if an email looks official but asks for money, it's a scam. So WB must have chose this route for notification for reason.

Talk about being too cheap and lazy to do it on paper in actual mail.

Then again that would be a piece of evidence that would be much easier for someone to bring to court with them. WB could deny they sent an email forcing the end user to spend some real cash to subpoena that info.
--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Stealing Content

If you get caught stealing a movie or song from downloading it via torrents, you deserve to get fined. Fined for stupidity if nothing else.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Edit

Accidental post.

IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

$20 is nothing

Copyright infringement is a criminal offense and can get you up to $250,000.00 in fines and/or up to 5 years in federal prison.

I know that from reading the FBI warnings at the beginning of DVDs and Videotapes.

I used to watch a lot of movies as a kid. Now the Internet and legally obtained music is my main source of entertainment.

I still have a lot of my old videotapes, although I am slowly migrating the collection to Blu-ray Discs. A few movies are downloaded.
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner and I currently have DirecTV. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.
Happydude32
Premium
join:2005-07-16
kudos:1

1 edit

1 recommendation

Re: $20 is nothing

quote:
I know that from reading the FBI warnings at the beginning of DVDs and Videotapes.
Sorry to hear that. When I had Netflix and pirated the rented DVDs I received by mail, I would remove the FBI warnings and all the other crap from my copies.


GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
said by IowaCowboy:

Copyright infringement is a criminal offense and can get you up to $250,000.00 in fines and/or up to 5 years in federal prison.

Actually it can be civil or criminal...and you vs Time Warner would most likely be a civil matter.
--
TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

The last straw

The last straw from the copyright industry (for generations of consumers since) was way back in the early 1980s-- a policy of REFUSING returns of intellectual property and this is inclusive of Software, Media of Video, Audio and later extended it to live content as well. That further limited private use, introduced COPYRIGHT protections and DRM through various hardware & software methods and all of this was STILL not good enough to change the policy.

Killing fair use, consumer, and later privacy rights put consumers and the industry in an adversarial position and it's been downhill ever since. No, the VCR, and Napster were not the beginning of this adversarial position, but they took things to whole new levels of animosity.

IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Re: The last straw

Another form of piracy back in the day was to buy a blank VHS cassette, rent a movie or check one out at the public library, open the cassettes up and switch out the tapes in the shell so when you returned the movie to the library/rental store it would appear that they have their movie back but they ended up with a blank tape.

Many movie rental outfits/libraries started using tamper seals that if cut or removed that you would be billed the replacement cost of the movie.

An even more heinous (and likely illegal) act was putting porn movies in the VHS cassette shells of children's movies. I know for a fact that this act is illegal in the State of Iowa as they have a law prohibiting the distribution of adult content to minors (my mother pressed charges under that law when some school bullies sent porn to my e-mail inbox when I was 13).

VHS is all but dead these days. Blu-ray is much higher quality and you could fit the entire Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers collection (in 4:3 SD) on one Blu-ray.
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner and I currently have DirecTV. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.
MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·Time Warner Cable

Re: The last straw

said by IowaCowboy:

...(my mother pressed charges under that law when some school bullies sent porn to my e-mail inbox when I was 13).

DanteX

join:2010-09-09
kudos:1

4 recommendations

This is why people pirate

This is why I pirate


•••

TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5

[ Six Strikes go Bye de Byes ]

Said it before, I'll say it again. Warner Bros. EATADICK!

We will overturn you!

( . . . on a roasty grill, with the heat turned up high n mighty.)
tootal2

join:2013-05-19
Eureka, MO

why use the internet when you can just rent a blu-ray

and use anydvd to copy it to your computer?
Chubbysumo

join:2009-12-01
Superior, WI
Reviews:
·Charter

Its a scam!!!

its really a scam to get your information. As the one thread on reddit of someone who got it(and broke the story said, and stupidly, he paid up), he has said that once he paid for "one" notice, they started calling back about "more" that he had done, and requested $40 more to clear his name. One time was a person(who he says was quite rude), and the other was a robo call. This also does not absolve them from suing you either, they can still do that. Do not be a sucker. if you get these, send them to the spam folder, and never click on the link. By them collecting your IP from you directly, they can match it to swarms, and hit you with everything they can find, and might even try to execute a direct connection.

Sterling
IP Support Tier III
Premium
join:2003-05-30
Pittsburgh, PA

Anyone with half a brain would not click on that link

So other then idiots, in this age of phishing emails and scams, who the hell do they really think is going to click on an email wipe out there credit card and start typing away, these companies are complete idiots, as pretty soon the scammers are going to start sending those emails out. I would not respond to any correspondence of this type that was not sent by certified mail or at the very less mailed. Just reaks of laziness that puts people at risk.

OmegaWolf747
Vive la revolucion

join:2009-02-08
Royal Oak, MI

Wouldn't open

I would refuse to open it in the first place. If they want to do official, legal business, let them send a snail mail letter.
GeoStar

join:2011-02-10
j2e6f5

another conspiracy theory



Why do I sometimes think that foreign countries have invested heavily in the "entertainment" industry and use it as a revenue source ie taxation form, to keep their nations GDP at a higher level than possible?

Who eh what an idea,? and then they concoct all these money for nothing laws about how to raise taxes on the easy livin populace of people who don't care about their causes ...


eeeeeech tell me this ani't true

better to be born dumb lucky than inteligent ...