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Comments on news posted 2013-07-23 10:35:32: *There has been a concerted push recently by the broadband industry to try and insist that the United States broadband market is secretly flawless, awesome and highly competitive, despite the fact that absolutely every independent source of broadband.. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

3 recommendations

The whole discussion is bull

You think you can get uber broadband in rural Japan or Korea...no way...just like here. Meanwhile ditching DSL will certainly help the US rankings since they always seem to rely on speed tests. Dropping those bottom end services leave only the decent faster ones to be measured. But wait...then would have something new to bitch about.

People bitch for the sake of bitching. Services everywhere, in every country "suck"...just for different reasons.
--
Nocchi rules.



n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

It could be worse

We could mimic Canada and their non-competitive, highly capped and highly priced market. I am stunned what my sister pays Rogers outside of Toronto.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.



RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2

And Wireless is still the bastard stepchild

We're still yammering on about wireline broadband while the real growth is in wireless. You think any of these companies give a crap about providing gigabit speeds for $50/mo? Why should they when they can push 50 gigabytes per month through a 2 megabit dropper for $100...and people line up to pay it.



mr sean
Professional Infidel
Premium,ExMod 2001-07
join:2001-04-03
N. Absentia
kudos:1
reply to n2jtx

Re: It could be worse

One might argue we are already neck and neck with our neighbors to the North. Regulatory capture is still pushing away any sort of meaningful competition so we might soon usurp the "highly capped and highly priced market" title.
--
How you can make the world a Better Place



linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
Reviews:
·TracFone Wireless
·CenturyLink

Excuse me for agreeing.

The problem with the FCC, CEO, CFO, and the geeks in D.C., who believe this smoke and mirrors never lived in rural America, never paid the outrageous fees, never suffered with the mediocre to poor service, and have no idea what the word competition means. It is not a duopoly which is what most of us are really saddled with. I firmly believe a telephone company that has been providing residential phone services for nearly 100 years, and has annual revenues of several billion dollars, does in fact know how to replace the POTS line (they removed) with an equally good service. I submit they do not want to spend the money to do so.

When it comes to deployment, broadband in rural America is near the bottom behind most every other developed country in the world. As long as telephone and cable companies can dictate how we are allowed to communicate, and what information we are allowed to gather and share, broadband will never improve. Competition in rural America is just as much a dream as a magic carpet ride and just as unattainable.
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to skeechan

Re: The whole discussion is bull

I get 60/11 mbps for $62/mo from Comcast and could get 105/20 mbps for $100/mo. And they have no competitor except Verizon offering 3/1 mbps DSL in my area. Why does Comcast offer these speeds at these prices if they have no realistic competitor?



rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

Competition More Important Than Speed

I'd love to have gigabit for $70/month but I'd rather see our government focusing on policy that enables numerous competitors. Foster that and speed and price will take care of itself.

I say this even though I am actually happy with the price and speeds offered by my local carrier, Charter. However, history is rife with examples of why capitalism needs competition. No matter how good a company might appear, it's run by us humans and we find it impossible to resist consequence-free temptation.


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

2 recommendations

reply to FFH

Re: The whole discussion is bull

Perhaps because they do have competition in some areas. If they only offered those plans in some areas, it could open a can of worms that they prefer to remain in the shadows.


AndyDufresne
Premium
join:2010-10-30
Chanhassen, MN

by line says John Sununu and Harold Ford Jr.

Amazing how these guys became experts on broadband deployement and pricing in the US in such short time from leaving their government positions.



djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

Re: The whole discussion is bull

said by FFH:

I get 60/11 mbps for $62/mo from Comcast and could get 105/20 mbps for $100/mo.

Why? Because you're lucky that you have a cable provider with a CEO who's somewhat interested in being a broadband leader. Comcast is also competing with Verizon FiOS and U-verse, just not in your area, but you benefit anyway.

If you had TWC you'd be paying $100/month for 50/5 (in many parts of the country, folks would be grateful to have that!).

Despite the "duopoly" complaining, I think the US has had reasonably healthy competition in the broadband market so far. DSL vs Cable vs independent third party ISPs / CLECs. What really worries me is telco abandonment of wireline services. That will leave us with cable as the only provider, and they WILL become abusive in that environment.

--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to skeechan

And "out in the country" of almost every country broadband is less prevalent and less wonderful.
Look at the OOkla stat's. One of the "countries" in front of the US , Andorra is specifically 900 tests from the principal city Andorra La Vella place it near the top.
When you whip out your atlas (or Wikipedia) an see that this metropolis is 85,000 people in 10sq miles generated 7700 tests out of which 800 make this the second fastest country in the world.
I would guess (any Andorran's please correct me if I am mistaken) that in the mountains outside Andorra La Vella, or in the rest of Andorra "BROADBAND" is rarely mentioned, perhaps not even on the radar.
I'm also guessing we could select quite a few areas in quite a few states, of 10 Square miles and select 10% of the tests and come up with equal or better average speeds.
In fact in their world listing the populous areas in the top ten listings area very small geographically and large by population and relative income which greatly changes the high-end Broadband availability/usage/speeds.

The stats are skewed in such a way to show geographically large countries like the US lower in the ratings.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to djrobx

It's is unfortunate, but not unexpected.
in the last 10 years TELCO wire lines have dropped to 40% of the previous peak usage, far below they sustainability level. In the meantime VoIP over Cable, and cell phones (and the revenues attached have soared for those providers)
USF has met it's goal of assured wide area availability of at least one TELEPHONY "line" at an affordable price (not as low as some would like, but a possibility for every person/house)
It may be time to do the same thing for broadband first building for availability past the 'burbs.
The pricing/competitions is another question, if there is money to be made you will see investment. if it's a lot of money(or a consistant little bit over a long time) you'll see multiple carriers.

Mention price controls and you may not see anyone.



Alex J

@184.105.146.x
reply to FFH

Why does Comcast offer these speeds at these prices if they have no realistic competitor?

Because DOCSIS 3.0 is relatively cheap to upgrade, and unlike other cable operators, they do face more serious competition from AT&T and Verizon in many markets. Speed isn't the whole story either though. Their customer service continues to be among the worst in the industry. They also just struck a pact with Verizon to re-sell Verizon Wireless services, so enjoy the end result of that on your overall bill the next decade.


Alex J

@184.105.144.x
reply to tshirt

The stats are skewed in such a way to show geographically large countries like the US lower in the ratings.

ALL of the stats from every stat farm showing we're middle of the road are skewed to simply make us look bad? So the lobbyists are right! We are secretly awesome and our broadband woes are all hallucinated. Good find!


Alex J

@184.105.146.x
reply to mr sean

Re: It could be worse

Canada was actually on the cusp of greatness and led a lot of stats ten years ago before their regulators decided to copy American regulators and let businesses run roughshod over consumers...

Now they're uncompetitive and heavily, heavily capped, courtesy of free marketeers and the boobs (like most in these forums) who cheer against their own best self interests.



Alex J

@he.net
reply to RadioDoc

Re: And Wireless is still the bastard stepchild

Except that wireless is no substitute for a real wired connection, so we're hanging up on fixed lines and then just hoping that 4 GB capped LTE connection works out well for people on fixed incomes.



Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

Re: The whole discussion is bull

The main reason is Verizon. You may not be able to get FIOS where you are (neither can I), but it's highly likely one of the neighboring towns in your Comcast area has FIOS.

So you are actually benefitting from competition.



Alex J

@he.net
reply to AndyDufresne

Re: by line says John Sununu and Harold Ford Jr.

Amazing how these guys became experts on broadband deployement and pricing in the US in such short time from leaving their government positions.

They're just given talking points to hit on just like they're giving any speech about any topic. They don't have to actually know what they're talking about, they're just there to lend faux credibility to the argument that everything in broadband land is wonderful, competition is flourishing, and you are not paying too much for TV and broadband.


toby
Troy Mcclure

join:2001-11-13
Portland, OR
reply to n2jtx

Re: It could be worse

said by n2jtx:

We could mimic Canada and their non-competitive, highly capped and highly priced market. I am stunned what my sister pays Rogers outside of Toronto.

Have you been to the most rural parts of Canada and see what high speed choices they have?
Better than in the US.

biochemistry
Premium
join:2003-05-09
92361

2 recommendations

reply to skeechan

Re: The whole discussion is bull

It is not all about speed. Most people would rather have unlimited 3 Mbps DSL at $50 than 15-20 Mbps LTE capped at 10 GB for $80.



rolande
Certifiable
Premium,Mod
join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
kudos:6
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·ViaTalk

2 recommendations

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

The whole "nobody really needs a Gig" commentary is a bunch of crap. Spoken like someone who is an industry apologist and really is clueless about how the technology functions and what attributes are important for performance. It isn't about individual users or individual applications. It also isn't 100% about just the raw bandwidth either. It is about buffer speed and lack of queueing that reduces transaction latency overall, as well as the ability to support simultaneous usage. As more devices are connected and more customers have simultaneous usage on their connections, the more they will really need the higher bandwidths to avoid the sluggishness and poor performance when link saturation occurs in any direction.

I would consider my house at below average device count on my network at 16 devices with 6 family members. That is only 2.66 devices per user. In the next year, I expect it will be more like 20 to 22 devices. As my kids get older, I'm already seeing the simultaneous demand on bandwidth increasing. It is tolerable for now on a 24Meg connection but I guarantee it won't be in the next 2 years. I will need 100-200Meg service between my wife recording 4 HD channels at a time on the DVR and the kids constantly streaming content and watching TV and me working from home on video conferences all the time. It will saturate my current service and make it practically unusable.
--
Scott, CCIE #14618 Routing & Switching
»rolande.wordpress.com/



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Alex J

Re: The whole discussion is bull

said by Alex J :

The stats are skewed in such a way to show geographically large countries like the US lower in the ratings.

ALL of the stats from every stat farm showing we're middle of the road are skewed to simply make us look bad? So the lobbyists are right! We are secretly awesome and our broadband woes are all hallucinated. Good find!

Not actually what I was saying, it is possible to find MANY locations HERE, the equal or better OOkla's carefully crafted rankings, HOWEVER there is a lot more area to cover here, without the per mile density needed to support the cost of new wire line builds capable of those higher speeds.
The lobbyists aren't correct that we are done building out, neither are the naysayers point to those rankings a place use in the broadband third world.
In fact It is likely that in the US providers rollout more faster connections in a few weeks then some of the higher ranking countries have or will ever have.

Nick1996

join:2012-06-04
Edmonton, AB
reply to n2jtx

Re: It could be worse

Actually I'm on Telus here and Canada and pretty happy. I have 15/1 (I can get 13-5/0.87) megabits and pay $40 for internet, but I am in a bundle with satellite TV and home phone. I'm capped at 150 GB, but Telus doesn't charge overage, so I pretty much have unlimited. Last month I transferred 300 GB. Telus also goes out of their way to help customers. Their support is the best I've ever dealt with (line problems, multiple techs, but they never charged, and always came out). It would be nice to have a better upload, but I'm glad that I'm not being ripped off as much as most of the US.


Nick1996

join:2012-06-04
Edmonton, AB

I forgot to add, I'm out west in Edmonton and I've heard that eastern Canada gets ripped off pretty bad.



PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
reply to FFH

Re: The whole discussion is bull

You mean it is possible to have more than one ISP serve your area? Man, I wish I knew what that felt like....


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

2 recommendations

reply to Alex J

As made famous by Mark Twain, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. On the surface, statistics can be used to support any conclusion. However, it's incredibly important to thoroughly question them before assigning confidence to their conclusions.

I believe the OOkla stats for Andorra are similar to NFL QB efficiency ratings. The guy at the top of the list could be a backup with ONE really great quarter. That's why you'll often see the ratings filtered to only show starting quarterbacks or at the very least, quarterbacks with significant playing time.

Another example is automotive "highest initial quality" statistics. It's not an inconsequential figure because we expect new cars to be defect free. However, if a car tops that list and then proceeds to develop more defects than any other car after 10,000 miles, we quickly realize initial quality does not guarantee enduring quality and how that particular statistic can be very misleading.


cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:9
reply to RadioDoc

Re: And Wireless is still the bastard stepchild

s/growth/money/

Wireless data is all about P.R.O.F.I.T. High initial cost, long contract, stupid low cap, and insane overage fees. And they more or less get to make up the numbers. (how many reports have there been of data usage from powered off phones. carriers counter with "we count what the tower broadcasts (and receives), not what your phone actually received.")



xyzabcg

@rr.com
reply to PapaMidnight

Re: The whole discussion is bull

That's most of America: cable co vs telco. In my backyard, there's three cable lines and AT&T's "U-verse" line. I also have a strong WiMax signal. One cable co bought out another, so now there's only two choices for cable. The top speed from anyone is 50/5. The choice is nice even though none of them is amazing. I used to live in an area with Fios haha.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to rradina

The good news is if you take the time to scan through the entire Akamai report
»www.scribd.com/fullscreen/155497···are=true

The US number are looking very good, even when compared with the oft touted Asian countries who's complete stats aren't quite as good as some here would have you believe - see both charts on page 24



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to skeechan

No, I don't think that. I know it.