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Comments on news posted 2013-08-26 14:35:59: Canadian incumbents Telus, Bell and Rogers have recently fired up attack campaigns attempting to keep Verizon Wireless from entering their market. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27

Are you kidding me?

Instead of writing letters to Canadian government about how Verizon is avoiding taxes, how about go after Verizon for said taxes?


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by Dodge:

Instead of writing letters to Canadian government about how Verizon is avoiding taxes, how about go after Verizon for said taxes?

Verizon follows the law. And not paying too much tax is a good thing. Spins off money to investors who are then taxed on their earning from Verizon. Why should the investors be taxed twice?
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27
If they are following the law, then they are not "dodging" anything and this entire article is clear defamation of a law abiding company.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Dodge
Unfortunately because they cannot go after Verizon. The problem is that while all major corporations are tax dodgers and dodge pay increases even though wages have not scaled with inflation for the people that actually make the company function. They have not broken the laws yet. In taxes they use creative loopholes in our tax code. And if countries start to close those loopholes the companies will lobby hard enough to get the bills to close them shot down.

There is also big business in loose tax code, Delaware is a corp haven likely due to low corp taxes. Rather than charging them lots of tax they use the walmart angle and go for volume.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

In taxes they use creative loopholes in our tax code.

Loopholes they know very well since they wrote them. Applauding companies for adhering to overly-complicated laws THEY wrote for one purpose is rather silly.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

Verizon responds

Verizon's already responded:
»www.thestar.com/opinion/commenta···der.html
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


snowfortftw

@peer1.net

1 edit
reply to Dodge

Re: Are you kidding me?

Story isn't biased .. oh no:

I obviously don't speak for every Canadian, but we don't want them either. Unless truth is some how misleading, there's nothing "nefarious" about it. The concerns are real and have nothing to do with whoever Mr. Nader is, what letters he writes or do those ads this story references.

Please, America, keep your media crap south of the border. We are Canadian, we don't need your help. Thank you.


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:

In taxes they use creative loopholes in our tax code.

Loopholes they know very well since they wrote them. Applauding companies for adhering to overly-complicated laws THEY wrote for one purpose is rather silly.

Individuals do the very same thing which is what makes this pontificating about corporations "dodging" taxes all the more hilarious. I highly doubt Nader just takes his standard deductions.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to FFH
said by FFH:

[Why should the investors be taxed twice?

YAWN. I'm so tired of hearing that mantra. Ok here it goes.

Take someone making $40,000 a year they pay about $3000 in FICA( ie Social security taxes ) then they have to pay 15% income tax on the $3000 in SS taxes. That's $450. Is that not double taxation? Where is your outrage of this for the COMMON MNA? why so much concern for the wealthy? If the tens of millions of tax payers that are paying this income tax on their SS tax weren't being doubled tax that money would be flowing back into the economy. Once again how come no outage over this? Only the rich you care about.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

1 recommendation

Look up Reverse Morris Trust.

Let me do it.
quote:
A Reverse Morris Trust is used when a parent company has a subsidiary (sub-company) that it wants to sell in a tax-efficient manner. The parent company completes a spin-off of a subsidiary to the parent company's shareholders. Under Internal Revenue Code section 355, this could be tax-free if certain criteria are met.
The people elected, you did vote right, these politicians. So why cry about what you did?

Remember when Verizon used the "reverse Morris trust" to sell off the great unwashed? There was much gnashing of teeth and whaling not at Morris but Verizon.

A publicly held company's first obligation is to make money for the public who bought shares in said company. Really we have to grow up, get a job and vote. If you don't you shall always remain;
quote:
but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing. — Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5, lines 17-28)


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

1 recommendation

reply to NOCTech75

Re: Are you kidding me?

Individuals do the very same thing which is what makes this pontificating about corporations "dodging" taxes all the more hilarious. I highly doubt Nader just takes his standard deductions.

Dickering with individual deductions is not the equivalent of using armies of lobbyists to write and pass entire convoluted sections of new tax law to net billions. Simply not comparable.


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by Karl Bode:

Individuals do the very same thing which is what makes this pontificating about corporations "dodging" taxes all the more hilarious. I highly doubt Nader just takes his standard deductions.

Dickering with individual deductions is not the equivalent of using armies of lobbyists to write and pass entire convoluted sections of new tax law to net billions. Simply not comparable.

Bullshit, there are army of lobbyists that get their fingers in the pie for certain groups of people. You don't think AARP, unions, farmers, etc have lobbyists????? They may not be corporations but they are doing the same lobbying to get their special deduction passed. You don't think these politicians are passing deductions to help themselves? Everyone does it, corporations and individuals.. only solution is to get rid of this shithole of a tax code entirely and get the government out of the game of picking winners and losers.


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

3 recommendations

Yes, retirees. The true scourge of the American tax landscape.


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Yeah, keep ignoring the others I mentioned. Those are just a few. But yeah, this tax system is working brilliantly.. it's just stupendous.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to Karl Bode
Don't hate the player, hate the game.

In any case, the Canadian telcos are only concerned about protecting their turf and profits. Verizon could theoretically join LTE in NA with the new spectrum so that one could have seamless coverage in NA. When I go into Canada, I have to roam on 3G forever more. And how long is Telus going to provide CDMA service?

I think Verizon may have zero intention to go into Canada (the investment sucks and big geography), except to bend them over to new roaming agreements and that the new spectrum auction makes sure to roam on Verizon LTE, of course cutting out the other guys since they don't have 700 Mhz, but hey. Of course if the CRTC gives them a blue bird and saves a "block" for little coin, VZ buys it up and then find a way to sell it back to the big 3 and make a profit--with course with the agreement to allow "North America" roaming as the concession.

It's all just a game.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

said by FFH:

[Why should the investors be taxed twice?

Take someone making $40,000 a year they pay about $3000 in FICA( ie Social security taxes ) then they have to pay 15% income tax on the $3000 in SS taxes. That's $450. Is that not double taxation? Where is your outrage of this for the COMMON MNA?

How about because the thread is about corporate taxation.

I don't think the gov't should tax SS either. But, again, not the topic being discussed.
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to FFH
Because they are not being taxed twice, the corporate taxes are being paid by Verizon not the investors.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to batterup

Re: Look up Reverse Morris Trust.

said by batterup:

Remember when Verizon used the "reverse Morris trust" to sell off the great unwashed? There was much gnashing of teeth and whaling not at Morris but Verizon.

If you recall, there was much gnashing of teeth both at Verizon for exploiting the Reverse Morris Trust tax loophole and for the loophole to exist in its current form at all. Verizon's actions were particularly reprehensible as the spin-off companies were doomed to failure (bankruptcy), while Verizon was able to write the sale off their tax bill.


hello123454
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Wilmington, DE
kudos:1

Everyone is anti-business

Last time I checked the homeless guy on the corner wasn't hiring anyone...I've noticed the younger generation has been brainwashed into thinking corporations and businesses are just bad and greedy...and then you see those same people shopping at the business lol...many of the occupy wall street weirdos had iPhones and yet they were against Apple and other techs as well...can we say sheep?

Point is..why make it harder for companies to hire? They have every right to pay their employees what they want. If the employees don't like what they get paid go build your own company. All this entitlement talk is annoying.

Are there corrupt CEOs and management? Sure absolutely...but that's different from saying "Well he's rich so he should have less money and pay more taxes"...which is the thinking you're seeing in our current economy. He has a prize so I should have one too! That's not fair!
--
"Speech is my hammer bang the world into shape...now let it fall"

-Mos Def

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
People would have more sympathy for companies if they actually paid people in dollar amounts that followed inflation and cost of living. the Rank and File are well below that still. For example minimum wage from the 1950s if scaled up to 2013 inflation would be close to $10/hr.

However banking is what pulled most of the ire towards mega-corps, They pay shit interest on savings accounts(Why did I as a kid get something like 4% on a normal passbook savings, Today you are lucky to see a whole percent). They have fees on everything, They crashed our economy and then got bailed out.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

balur

join:2010-04-28
kudos:1

Why pay more then they legally have too?

I've never understood why people treat it as a bad thing that people / companies pay only the tax they are required too.

If they are smart enough / have enough resources to make the tax code work to their benefit, we should see it as impressive and not as something bad.

That being said we should work to removing these holes, but the anger is misplaced.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to Kearnstd

Re: Are you kidding me?

said by Kearnstd:

Because they are not being taxed twice, the corporate taxes are being paid by Verizon not the investors.

Investors ultimately pay for all corporate taxes thru lower dividends or lower stock price. So, yes, they are taxed twice.
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."


Treegravy
Premium
join:2011-04-21
canada

Sweat!

Yah, Bell, Rogers, Telus; sweat it! I could care less if Verizon doesn't do a lick for this country. Just knowing that you don't want them here makes me DROOOL at the thought that they might come.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to FFH

Re: Are you kidding me?

And consumers ultimately pay for everything so what is your point?


ground

join:2008-01-16
Toronto, ON

bury them

If Rogers and Bell make my life miserable why should I care about them? I wish Verizon comes here and buries them for good.

Os

join:2011-01-26
US
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to balur

Re: Why pay more then they legally have too?

So we should applaud them for being determined enough to break the law?

If I don't pay my taxes, I'm thrown in jail for tax evasion. And I still owe the bill. Provide the same kind of accountability for Verizon and its brothers in corporate America.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to Kearnstd

Re: Everyone is anti-business

I was also reading that the US government for families under 50k now provide the equivalent of $50k per family in benefits or services. Those did not exist in the 50's. So if you take that, they are making over $30 an hour.

My family owns a number of rental units, and I can go through stories all day on Section 8, disability, medicard, HEAP, SSI, etc. As a business owner, until you see the s**t first hand I can understand having sympathy for the masses.

The candy the government is handing out is like Willy Wonka....

Everyone always looks at the apparent numbers. The government has it's own shadow economy.

And companies pay according to supply and demand, they don't need little people or regulations to tell them. Employment is voluntary, and many people choose to go to the gov't for assistance than work a menial job commensurate w/ their skills.

In my area at McD they almost get $10 an hour to start. The list goes on, but I cant even get a babysitter for less than $15 under the table.

Outside of the government which employs millions, DUE to money generated from companies and employees BECAUSE of companies we would be like Pashtuns running around like a bunch of tribes up in the mountains.

There are other financial instruments that can get much more than 4% out there (reliably), it's just doesn't happen to be CD's or passbooks anymore because the FED is creating money out of thin air. At the top banking, government, the rich people (and I'm not talking about Bill Gates) have always been pulling the strings and always will as long as government's have the power to create and regulate their own currencies.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to Dodge

Re: Are you kidding me?

What the law says and what the spirit of the law is can be different things.

We have become masters at ignoring the spirit of the law. Laws should be written with the assumption that loop holes dont matter because the law is there to accomplish one thing regardless of loopholes. If the spirit of the law was considered, then they can compare to loophole to that and decide if it is an exception or not.

Regardless, if a loophole is found, it should be explicitly closed with backdated consequences. This penalty would stop those looking for a loop hole from using them because they know that if it gets past law writers at first they may very well pay (with penalties) in the future.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to Skippy25
said by Skippy25:

And consumers ultimately pay for everything so what is your point?

The point is "who cares" other than Ralph Nader that Verizon avoided paying some taxes; legally of course.
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to Os

Re: Why pay more then they legally have too?

Nobody said they were breaking the law. Nader, the consummate fascist liberal holds the belief that everyone should pay their fare share, magnitude be damned. I don't disagree, but that means paying 15% across the board or whatever. To the liberal it means pay "according to means", all socialist principals which brought down every country that followed that.

Do they GE, name the big Fortune 100 make out, yes. That is through legislation, and that is America. Dont forget the US Gov't is the willing partner here too...It take two to tango.

And the US has one of the highest "apparent" tax rates. So what Verizon and most other countries (MSFT has $70 of its $77b offshore) is park their $ offshore, waiting for a republican to come in and let them repatriate it, create corporate structures to minimize taxes, or move into communities that roll out the read carpet and give them tax breaks. I guess a payroll is better than no roll, eh?

Corporations are fluid, they will go where the taxes are lowest and if that means creating shell corporations or shuffling money around they will. A typical person can't do the same, so you can't treat it as such unless you employ a star tax attorney just like Verizon has an army.