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Comments on news posted 2013-09-18 14:02:59: The FISA Court this week released a heavily-redacted copy of a July ruling that approved renewal of the bulk metadata collection on all phone calls from US phone providers under Section 215 of the Patriot Act. ..


SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

2 recommendations

SimbaSeven

Member

Verizon doesn't give a..

..crap. As long as the money's flowing, the Government can do whatever they want.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

2 recommendations

morbo

Member

Shame on Verizon

"I appreciate that the consumer-centric IT firms that you referenced [Yahoo, Google, Microsoft] that it's important to grandstand a bit, and wave their arms and protest loudly so as not to offend the sensibility of their customers," Stratton said
In case it wasn't already clear, Verizon's most important customer is the U.S. government and its intelligence arms like the NSA. Your privacy, the constitution, and federal laws are worthless in their eyes. It was nice of Stratton to drive home that point.

Maybe Stratton can clarify how much the NSA (and other intelligence agencies) pay Verizon annually for their help with spying on U.S. citizens.

dbCooper
@204.145.8.x

dbCooper

Anon

Immunity

Recall, congress gave all the telcos immunity for prosecution, retroactively. We would they ever protest, especially given the wiretaps are a profit center for them.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW to morbo

Premium Member

to morbo

Re: Shame on Verizon

said by morbo:

Maybe Stratton can clarify how much the NSA (and other intelligence agencies) pay Verizon annually for their help with spying on U.S. citizens.

Such "favors" are not direct. That'd be seen as a bribe and probably illegal.

The way it works is that one receives "consideration" which is an unwritten but understood agreement that one shall receive certain undefined benefits as a result of doing certain things.

This kind of thing happens all the time. Washington is full on lobbyists that pay Congresscritters etc in varied ways just not brown paper bags full of cash (which would be illegal). Of course Lobbying is legal since they've made it so.

Right and wrong are moral concepts not legal ones. Some people have no idea of the difference.
DanteX
join:2010-09-09

DanteX

Member

So how does Lobbying differ from Bribery?

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW

Premium Member

Congress made lobbying legal so therefore it's ok.

IMO there is a fine line between giving people cold hard cash (bribery) and paying for their trips, meals etc (lobbying). Both are done in an unwritten expectation of some favor.

boogi man
join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL

boogi man

Member

direct bribery is 'dirty'
lobbying is considered slimy but needed to get things done via favors, donations, voters etc basically all that get done so that one suit can bend the ear of and make a case to the congresscritter(s) of choice
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Cynical as hell, but he has a point

Look, I'm not defending what he said, but he has a point. It's one thing for companies to publicly oppose this shit, but how effective is this opposition when you really get down to it? At the end of the day, is their opposition having any real effect, or are they pissing in the wind? I suspect it's some of the former and most of the latter.

But he's absolutely right that, when you get down to it, this is a societal issue. Unless you have a really large segment of society shouting very loudly that this behavior is unacceptable and must cease, then nothing will get done to stop it. We have to come to a clear consensus about what kind of country we want to live in, and I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but there are lots of people out there who believe that the government should have free reign to do whatever it wants in order to make them feel safe as they fall asleep at night. They either don't think there are any real tradeoffs, or they simply don't care what those tradeoffs are, as long as they feel safe. And those people vote. And then there are the ones who are only outraged when it's the other party in power when these abuses are uncovered. You can see that factor in play both now and back in 2005, when more or less the same shenanigans were uncovered.

Again, I completely disagree with this guy's cynicism, but there's some truth in it.

FLATLINE
join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

FLATLINE

Member

Disgusting

All I know is these people who work for the government and the companies we trust with our data who made the decision and those who abide by it are all scumbags. If I knew any of those people whether they were friends, family, mothers, or fathers I'd be ashamed of them and would be distancing myself as much as possible. I don't care what they do in other countries anymore and I don't care what excuses they give in this one. But this is not the sort of behavior that's not consistant with the core values of being American.

I don't claim America as being perfect. We've made more than our fair share of mistakes but that changes nothing. This is still AntiAmerican behavior and its up to society to figure that out and punish those involved.

meeeeeeeeee
join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

meeeeeeeeee

Member

Welcome to the new Amerika, whose citizens are a curious cross of humans and sheep that dutifully drink their koolaid and hide under their beds from "terrorists" and "child pornographers" that their government tells them are hiding behind every bush. As long as they have their Facedrool and can watch Amerikans Idle, they are content spending their lives playing video games.

One CAN'T be anti-American. America ceased to exist decades ago.

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
United State

linicx

Premium Member

I hope

I hope they enjoy recording my hours of tech chats concerning old houses and other subjects.

FLATLINE
join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

FLATLINE to meeeeeeeeee

Member

to meeeeeeeeee

Re: Disgusting

I understand what your saying and its hard to argue your points but where does that leave me? Where does that leave those like me? I know im not the only one who still believes in America and American values.

meeeeeeeeee
join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 edit

meeeeeeeeee

Member

Personally, I've found people who still hold those values dear and live by them. They live in a country with a government probably no less corrupt than ours (but much less professional at it), but it goes largely ignored by the people. They don't expect much from it and are rarely disappointed lol. I'm looking to emigrate there and spend my twilight years surrounded by warm, caring, moral, ethical people instead of lazy, spoiled, stupid sheeple. Don't get me wrong, it's not Nirvana, the country has more than it's share of problems, but maybe in my own small way I can use the knowledge I've gained over the years to help fix some of them... or at least try to make things better for the people I've learned to know and love.

It's funny, though so very sad. When I am there, I feel "at home". Here, in the land of my birth, I feel a foreigner.