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Comments on news posted 2013-10-08 09:26:03: While streaming live TV provider Aereo has had some key legal wins so far in their battle against broadcasters, they're certainly not out of the woods quite yet. ..


Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One

MVM

Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

They'll file in every court they can, in the hope that they can break Aereo's bank account before having to actually go to trial anywhere. That is US Civil Law 101 for big corps.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

And if it was an incumbent trying to retransmit over the net, to avoid paying the fees, it would have been shut down. Aereo should have to play by the same rules everyone else does.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

Aereo believes they've found a loophole in the law. They certainly have the right to have a court decide if that's indeed the case.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

They dont need a loop hole as they dont retransmit.
They are just a managed equipment leasing company. The customer uses the leased equipment to tune into OTA tv in their area.
If Aereo is breaking the law then so is anyone that sells or leases equipment that can be used to pick up OTA broadcasts.
Also then TIVO and slingbox are both breaking the same law.
Good thing it is not illegal to lease or sell equipment for customers to pick up OTA and to stream.
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
Technically they are playing by the same rules.

They have found a loophole in the law and those corporations do the same find loopholes in the law.

Whats so wrong about relaying a signal aka place shifting ? We do it with Sling boxes ? I don't see the problem. It would be smarter to go with them and help figure out a way to count those as viewer eyes.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope

Premium Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

Part of the difference is that we are not reselling the signal via Sling box. Aereo does charge a fee for their service.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

Aereo does NOT charge you for the content. That has been covered countless times. They charge you to co-locate your antenna there at their data center. It is all legal and good. Nothing states they can not do that. Slingbox does basically the same thing. It allows you to take your content.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

Comical.

That being said, the big providers can sell w-fi antennas as well. Then what do you tell the stations? Too bad? Create your content pro-bono?

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

OTA is free to watch and paid for by advertisement revenue.
You are funny a hell.

Aereo is not breaking any laws by leasing equipment.
intok (banned)
join:2012-03-15

intok (banned) to ITALIAN926

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to ITALIAN926
The broadcast channels are paid for by the ads they run, if they want more money for original content let them sell it directly over the internet to the world at large instead of the reach of their broadcast tower.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope to TBBroadband

Premium Member

to TBBroadband
I did not say that they charged for content... I mentioned that they charge for their services. I also understand that this is the whole issue. The Fox/CBS wants to make it seem that they are charging for content that Fox/CBS owns and Aereo argued that they were not, that they were charging to deliver the content. I also understand that Aereo won with this argument. So that leaves us to where we are now... Fox/CBS wants to find a court that will rule on this in such a way that they can bump _that_ argument up to Supreme Court. This is what I'm saying in my last post... Fox/CBS are going to _try_ to tie in their argument that Aereo is just using semantics.

Keep this in mind... Napster did close to the same thing. Part of the differences is that in Napsters case the exchange of the media, however it was made available, was illegal. In this case the obtaining of the media (OTA signal) is free. The issue I see with Aereo is that they advertise that a person can stream the content. So Aereo is storing it on their servers. While this appears to be legal I'm sure Fox/CBS are _hard_ at work making this their key issue.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

They only charge you rent for your own dedicated antenna and for the tuner equipment. What you do with your rented antenna is your business.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope

Premium Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

Just like Napsters defense in that they only provided the links to the other person's server and never provided the content direct? How did that work out for Napster?

But I could also say that you are incorrect in your post. The data does not magicaly appear from your rented antenna to your computer. It's _sent_ there in some way. So the data comes in from the air and then some how shows up on your computer in the end. What happens right after it's captured from the air?

I'm not saying that CBS and Fox have a valid complaint, I'm only pointing out that Aereo is in control of the data at some point. Also, Aereo's own website states that the data can be streamed. So it is stored on servers at some point (but this is also obvious as it's the answer to the question above).

Should this be illegal? Probably. Is it illegal? Not at this time. I think it's only a question of _when_ the networks will have paid off enough people to get the law changed.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

Napster? That makes no sense. Napster servers and files sharing software has nothing to do with Aereo.

Aereo is just an equipment leasing company. They lease you an antenna, tuner, and a long cable.
That is 100% legal to do.

Your arguement about the wire between the tuner and the computer is joke. You are essentially saying ALL external tuners are illegal.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope

Premium Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

I think you are reading a lot into my posts in thinking I am stating Aereo is doing something illegal. It's not illegal at _this_ time. I've stated that it's different then other and you have mentioned. Aereo _is_ storing the content. How else could they allow you to stream it at any time. This _is_ different then leasing an antenna, tuner and long cable. It's also Aereo storing the data and charging you for this. The networks are arguing that Aereo is sellnig the data... Aereo is arguing that they are not selling the _data_, they are selling the delivery method. Personally, I think Aereo _is_ simply making a buck off the data but I also think 1) someone needs to kick the networks butt and 2) that _all_ networks are scum and deserve to have their butts kicked!

I think of this a lot like the govt going after the tabacco industry. The govt can't shut them down so they just pass a ton of laws making it so people can't smoke in 99.999% of places. I don't think anyone should smoke but I also think the govt is pretty much making illegal laws.
intok (banned)
join:2012-03-15

intok (banned) to tcope

Member

to tcope
What Aereo is doing is no different then you living in a valley lease an antenna and a cable from the guy that lives high up on the mountain so that you can get a signal.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope

Premium Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

Certainly it's different. You don't mention the guy up on the mountain recording the data onto a server and allowing me to stream it at a later date.
Pervbear
join:2013-08-20

Pervbear to TBBroadband

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to TBBroadband
I do not see why the channels charge more for ads, no one using an atenna is paying for the channel they channel is making its cheddar mainly from ads, so how does it hurt them all that much to make a little more from their ad revenue as long as aereo offers numbers to get a better understanding who is viewing what. Long as they don't offer ad skip really all that big of a deal even though everyone using a DVR is already skipping but those services pay the channel (cable companies like charter)
Chuck_IV
join:2003-11-18
Connecticut

Chuck_IV to BosstonesOwn

Member

to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn:

They have found a loophole in the law and those corporations do the same find loopholes in the law.

Bingo!

This can't be stressed enough. These big corporations exploit loopholes whenever they can. Turn around is fair play but they don't like it.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

The POINT IS, the big providers can deliver locals the same way, and what do you tell the stations? Too bad? Create your content pro-bono?

kontos
xyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY

kontos

Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

said by ITALIAN926:

The POINT IS, the big providers can deliver locals the same way

Do you realize that until 1996-97 that is exactly how the cable companies operated. The '96 Communications act is what established the re-transmission consent rule that the local stations could opt in to.

techlte
join:2003-01-01
US

techlte to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
You tell them to adapt or die, change their model.. The writing is/was on the wall. Technology changes things brotha.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

Id like you to record me a 1 minute show starring - YOU. You must start with no equipment, and you have no money to buy some. Please post it on YouTube when youre done.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One

MVM

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

You do understand these are OTA stations, right? They broadcast free to anyone with an antenna. Aereo just offers to host your antenna at their facillity. The stations still get the same $0 from each person watching, but grt to charge more for advertising due to the higher viewer count. In the end, it is a win for everyone but the cable company.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984 to ITALIAN926

Premium Member

to ITALIAN926
He can always find advertisers that can fund his equipment.
intok (banned)
join:2012-03-15

intok (banned) to ITALIAN926

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to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

Id like you to record me a 1 minute show starring - YOU. You must start with no equipment, and you have no money to buy some. Please post it on YouTube when youre done.

That can all be done on a cheap cellphone.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25 to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
Well if the big providers have an antennae input on their STB and then incorporate that into their guide and channel changing, then yes they should be able to deliver it the EXACT same way (just a smaller line).
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
Aereo's argument is that paying them is renting an antenna with very good reception. The networks will have to prove that Aereo's service is somehow more illegal than using an over-the-air antenna.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984 to ITALIAN926

Premium Member

to ITALIAN926
What company are you talking about??
Aereo just leases equipment that the customer uses to pick up the OTA broadcast. There is no retransmission.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

This entire time I thought this used internet delivery, NOT OTA. If this video is being delivered OTA, I take back every comment Ive made in this thread ! lol

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

1 recommendation

r81984

Premium Member

Re: Court shopping sure, but this is more about the cost

Internet is just a long multiple use cable. There is no law that puts limits on your cable length. Your Aereo LEASED antenna picks up the OTA, it goes to a LEASED tuner box, then it gets to your computer from a long internet cable between the tuner and monitor.

If you want to say Aereo is doing something illegal then all external TV tuners would be illegal.
r81984

r81984 to ITALIAN926

Premium Member

to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

This entire time I thought this used internet delivery, NOT OTA. If this video is being delivered OTA, I take back every comment Ive made in this thread ! lol

Finally some common sense.
It is 100% OTA through leased equipment.
I am glad you take everything back you said. That means you are getting smarter.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch to Camelot One

Member

to Camelot One
Could Aereo move to have the case dismissed on the grounds that an identical case is already underway in another jurisdiction? And can either the NY or MA courts bar the networks from filing additional suits in other jurisdictions? It would seem reasonable to do that.

••••

Probitas
@teksavvy.com

Probitas

Anon

this should be considered an abuse of the legal system

Aereo should sue back for harrassment and abuse of process. At some point enough is enough, you can't stop them yet, wait for you day in court like a good little boy and stop trying to throw bricks through windows.

••••••••

Yucca Servic
join:2012-11-27
Rio Rancho, NM

Yucca Servic

Member

Counter sue

It's time for Aereo to counter sue and have the plaintiff set up an escrow account to pay the defendant if Aereo wins.

Redundant lawsuits waste court time and valuable resources.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

1 recommendation

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Judges in Utah

Utah is a more business friendly political climate than New York and Boston. I think the broadcasters have a stab at victory there.

But like I've been saying all along, either Aereo should pay retransmission fees or Comcast/DirecTV/DishNetwork should also get a free ride.

I think Aereo should just settle with a retransmission agreement before they go bankrupt from the cost of litigation. I think retransmission agreements would be cheaper than litigation anyways.

••••

MertJen
@205.123.151.x

MertJen

Anon

I support Aereo

I'm a Salt Lake City Aereo user and have been from day one. There have been a few glitches but not many. It's the only way (currently) I can get the local broadcast channels. I hope this works out for them as it has been a great option for me.

••••••••••••••

lordfly
join:2000-10-12
Homestead, FL

lordfly

Member

Seems legal to me

Aereo has service here in the South Florida area and I think the whole idea is very ingenious. You lease an antenna and receiver and it is broadcast to you only. At least for my area, not having to put up an antenna and deal with taking down for Hurricanes is awesome. Plus I don't have to worry about up front equipment costs, costly installs or repairs if something breaks. What is there not to love?
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: Seems legal to me

And that's totally how the system works and is legal. That's how cable companies started in the day.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to lordfly

Premium Member

to lordfly
its been proven legal in a court of law multiple times. But the networks will never give up the fight. They will keep trying and trying.

Probitas
@teksavvy.com

Probitas

Anon

I think the biggest issue

is that technology is moving faster than the broadcasters and creators of content can adjust to. The days of paying for the whole shebang are dying. It's not just that there won't be as much money, but they won't be paying people to sit behind desks and read teleprompters for your news, something any trained monkey can do. After all, even with satellite tv in my area, they don't carry local stations, I'd have to get cable as well for that. And that's just stupid. If they can't play nice with each other, let them fail.
zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC

zod5000

Member

Aereo reminds me of what cable used to be

When cable originally started it was a service to take free OTA channels using a big satellite dish and send the channels out via wire to the customers. I don't think they had carriage fees and what not back then.

Then cable snowballed from there. They started making channels that didn't broadcast OTA. Channels started charging for the retransmission. Channels started to force bundling to sell their filler channels. Now cable is bloated and the cost is spiraling out of control.

That's why Aereo reminds me of how cable started. I realize the technical aspect of it is different. They use a small antennna for every customer and send the signal out via the internet. The spirit is still the same.

Unfortunately I think Aereo will fail in the long term. Cableco's & TV Channels have too much to lose. They'll either buy a judge, buy a new law, or drive Aereo to bankruptcy with too many lawsuits.

•••
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman

Premium Member

Aereo

The one problem I have with Aereo is the size of those leased antennas. I have had to use fairly large antennas, much bigger than the Aereo antenna, to get a decent picture from my OTA channels. I had a battery powered portable ATSC tuner equipped television that had a much bigger antenna. Unless you are very close to the broadcast signal, I do not see that little antenna as being realistic. Now having a bunch of them together in one place gets you a nice useful antenna array. I am suspicious of the leasing of the single little antenna claim. If it does work as advertised, then Aereo seems to be very legal.