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Comments on news posted 2013-10-16 17:04:23: After being one of the only towns or cities to hold up Google Fiber because of liability concerns, Overland Park this week appeared poised to do a 180 and approve the deal, which city officials tell me remains identical to other deals in the region. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


CosmicDebri
Still looking for intelligent life

join:2001-09-01
Port Saint Lucie, FL

Just wrong

It's just wrong what Google is doing. Like Karl points out, they are being allowed and given too much of anything and everything they want to bring their super powered awesomeness to certain cities.

Even if Google makes money and doesn't abandon the projects in a couple years, the cities are still going to be paying for the 'right' to have Google in there.

Not to mention that even though they aren't signing any exclusive contracts (that I've heard of), they are still going to be THE go to place if you want internet service if they aren't the only one there. Who in their right mind will try to go into a community where Google Fiber is and try to build a network to compete??
--
Follow Your Bliss -- Joseph Cambell
I reject your Reality and substitute my own! -- Adam Savage, Mythbuster


bugabuga

join:2004-06-10
Austin, TX

Citizens interests too

I don't think we can really split citizen's interests from city's. After all, obligations will be paid out of taxes and local budget, but citizens are clamoring for normal internet instead of what they get from current franchises.

It's perfectly normal for city to be concerned. It's also perfectly normal for Google to simply bypass them and go with the next eager participant. Once the list of eager places is empty, they might come back and revisit "reluctant" participants.

It's like adopting a cat. If you want a cat but local shelter waves a twenty page form to fill out and wants to do a background check on you, you probably will be very likely to get a cat from some other place, where requirements are not so strict

Oh and I still hate current form of franchise agreements. I understand the theory of equality, but practice means "if our low population / low income areas can't get service _nobody_ should have it", which is a bit... frustrating. It cuts out any chance of having alternative to those well established ISPs that dream about per-byte billing and do everything they can to prevent competition.
--
Hyperom: Rants about life, politics, technology



gorilla

@proxlabs.com

1 recommendation

Google is the proverbial 800lb gorilla

Google is just acting the part of what they really are - the 800lb gorilla, in negotiations with cities. Corporations do this all the time when they cut development deals that get them tax avoidance for multiple years if they put a headquarters bldg in a city. The only newsworthy aspect is that some people still think Google deserves their reputation a "Google the Good".



anonome

@verizon.net

"We reserve the right..."

"to refuse service..." (to those we deem unworthy).



elgoog

@comcast.net
reply to gorilla

Re: Google is the proverbial 800lb gorilla...

...with a very short attention span.


xenophon

join:2007-09-17
reply to bugabuga

Re: Citizens interests too

Yeah, I suspect OP will get Google fiber in the end as all surrounding burbs are in line to get it. Google has about 20 KC suburbs with agreements, which may take years to deploy in. It's not like OP/Google need an agreement in place now. OP can wait a year or maybe two to see how committed Google is to keeping/maintaining the network and then make a move.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to CosmicDebri

Re: Just wrong

Any company that stands up for their customers/clients against the business BS that Google decides that all should live with.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath
reply to xenophon

Re: Citizens interests too

Any city would be smart right now to wait to see what path Google takes. In the end all of these cities that have signed on will take years for the network to be fully built. And only Google knows the uptake on any of the cities/numbers and we should all know by now if they aren't up to google standards they will in fact get rid of these beta at some point. Just like They did with their phone hobby, and their claim of building their own mobile network.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to anonome

Re: "We reserve the right..."

Which is all and anyone who does not agree with them.


WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

Overland Park

Overland Park made a smart move. If I was on the City Council I would have voted for the delay. What Google want was to absolved of ANYTHING that went wrong. Even if they where the party totally at fault.

If cities and towns want fiber so bad they should build their own network. I have posted this idea before but cities and towns and counties with any density at all should build a dumb pipe fiber network and then let any company connect to it to provide the service to a business or resident. The network would be like the power company provides the power line to the house and you take care of eveything past the meter.

The reason fiber has been so slow to be deployed is the cost. The telephone, power, and cable were build because they had a monopoly. If the fiber network had a monopoly even as a dumb pipe or dark fiber it would get built sooner.



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Towns that feel they are being treated unfairly...

...are free to tell Google no just as Google is free as a private enterprise to pick and choose who and where they begin negotiations over where they deploy their hobby/beta service.
--
Nocchi rules.



gorilla

@95.154.230.x

said by skeechan:

...are free to tell Google no just as Google is free as a private enterprise to pick and choose who and where they begin negotiations over where they deploy their hobby/beta service.

Of course Google has the right to decide where they go. Just as others have the right to point out that Google should not be extolled as some wonderful benefactor, but as a company looking out for their own interests(making billions of dollars and getting free publicity for their advertising business).

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to WhatNow

Re: Overland Park

Right, because city and towns wouldnt be up against another 800lb gorilla trying to stop them now would they?


davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3

Google Fiber and Quick Quality decision making.

KCKS and KCMO were the tests for the legal work aspects of Google Fiber. Other cities used those two examples to craft their own legal documents in a relatively quicker manner than they normally would. Overland Park failed to take the need for speedy quality legal work seriously. They now go to the back of the line of those in the metropolitan area waiting for Google Fiber(GF).

GF has had to learn about dealing with complex demographic variations. The problems in KCMO and KCKS showed that different approaches were needed to get different groups to be enthusiastic about signing up for GF. GF learned that the information they had originally used to design each Fiberhood's goal was not reliable, so they adjusted the goals to more realistic ones for some Fiberhoods. They even came up with a second chance rally for those Fiberhoods that missed getting to goal the first time. Unlike some ISPs who come in with detailed lists of areas of the city they deem not worthy of service, GF tried a unique approach to allow all areas of KCMO and KCKS to get GF service. They have learned valuable lessons about designing rallies that involve communities more comprehensively in the early stages, prior to the actual registration period for residents. This should reduce the need for second chance rallies.

Cities have learned about moving more quickly than usual, while still maintaining legal quality. If there are any more cities that are approached by GF, they will have an extensive number of examples of how to move the legal process along in a swifter manner than usual. Another thing to note is that municipalities might be quite free to pay for the hook up costs($300) by having a group of philanthropic entities join together to give GF enough money to cover the entire number of residences within that municipality. Goodbye to accusations of discriminatory deployment.



marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2
reply to WhatNow

Re: Overland Park

"If cities and towns want fiber so bad they should build their own network. I have posted this idea before but cities and towns and counties with any density at all should build a dumb pipe fiber network and then let any company connect to it to provide the service to a business or resident. "

Which is totally illegal in Missouri at a fine of $5k per day per household passed by the network. (And the city or county is liable for any economic losses by private companies.)

Meanwhile, all video and internet entities are authorized to cherry pick as much as they want, and have been for seven years.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher



MSauk
MSauk
Premium
join:2002-01-17
Sandy, UT
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

Google is no different than ATT, Verizon, Time Warner, etc.

They are no different period. All of those companies get massive tax breaks, land, money, etc. from the local and state governments. Only difference is Google is supplying the people with massive speeds, while the rest of those losers supply the people with the least amount possible.
--
801 Images



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
reply to gorilla

Re: Towns that feel they are being treated unfairly...

Duh.


jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
reply to CosmicDebri

Re: Just wrong

The incumbents can up their game too. I'm no Google fanboy, but the incumbents need to step up to the plate and offer better value to the customer.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath

and those providers are doing that- especially MSOs. The large national MSOs are increasing speed hand over fist, and generally are not raising prices- except for those small regional ISPs that are increasing price with speed.

But this is fully about Google and not anyone else.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to MSauk

Re: Google is no different than ATT, Verizon, Time Warner, etc.

TWC, ATT, VZ, Comcast, etc do not have the cities handling their legal fund either like Google requires. If that was the case cities would not have CableTV let alone states would not have approved state wide deals.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to Skippy25

Re: Overland Park

Better than being liable for any and all legal issues that could come from Google and issues.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to marigolds

Define Cherry pick- I'm sure everyone in the Charter footprint that has live wire running by it- can get service regardless if the beg for service or not. The same with Mediacom.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
reply to gorilla

Re: Towns that feel they are being treated unfairly...

and that includes having their legal issues paid for by the people.


TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath
reply to davidhoffman

Re: Google Fiber and Quick Quality decision making.

There were nothing about quality decision making. Only decision making that was done was Google saying this is what is going to happen or you don't get anything. They just found suckers that were eager to agree to their mess of a contract- including the City of Provo who agreed to sell their network for $1 but yet is still on the hook for all that debt. Any smart city would have made the buyer pay all that off if they wanted to take over that network; or at least pay half.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

It's a referendum on the sorry state of Competition in the US

It's really amazing that due to the sorry state of the competitive landscape in the USA that we feel so far behind on true next Generation Internet services.... so much so that people are overwhelming enthusiastic for Google Fiber at the expense of any sane standard requirements for such services.

However it works out long term, Google Fiber's impact cannot be understated. All across the USA other incumbents have suddenly found the will to upgrade or increase speeds in order to slow the momentum of Google's PR express. Even here we're about to get a LONG overdue speed increase from Cox without a rate increase. The prices are already high, but I hold no doubts that the underlying motivation is to help counter the impact that Google Fiber is having in the public eye. If Google Fiber didn't exist, these speed increases wouldn't either. It's still not competitive at all, but at least it's a little bit less of a rip off.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Reviews:
·Solarus
reply to bugabuga

Re: Citizens interests too

"It's like adopting a cat. If you want a cat but local shelter waves a twenty page form to fill out and wants to do a background check on you, you probably will be very likely to get a cat from some other place, where requirements are not so strict "

Like a local farm. They always have spare cats.


Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI

1 edit
reply to TBBroadband

Re: Overland Park

Define service /joke. At least they're better than Comcast.


Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
reply to KrK

Re: It's a referendum on the sorry state of Competition in the US

Now that they give you an upgrade and toting 100mb+/s, you still get lag to your favorite game during peak hours because they can't handle you streaming 128kb/s. Right? /sarc-sterotype


Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Reviews:
·Solarus
reply to TBBroadband

Re: Google Fiber and Quick Quality decision making.

Provo was so miss-managed that they were better off abandoning the network, that is why they sold it for $1.

If you had a nuclear disaster in your backyard and had the choice of paying millions to clean it up or just leave the land, you'd probably just leave and buy new land.

That's what Provo did.


josephf

join:2009-04-26
Reviews:
·VoicePulse

Same Thing Occurred with Verizon FiOS

Some towns stretched out negotiations and demands to Verizon before they would agree to a franchise agreement for FiOS.

By time they came around Verizon decided not to build out.

Then they started wining why Verizon is not building FiOS in their town.