 NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI |
to UnnDunn
Re: Just a drop in the bucketsaid by UnnDunn:said by Nightfall:Its not really that much cheaper today. The end to end cost to terminate the fiber still is in the thousands for both ends. Which is why its important for FIOS to retain customers for 2-3 years before a profit is even seen. Once the fiber is installed at the premises, it's there for life. It isn't just the customer who orders the installation, but also any subsequent tenants/owners of the premises who can order service. 2-3 years of service is a trivial bar to meet. Heck, I've had FiOS at my apartment for almost 3 years, and I'm moving to a new apartment that also has FiOS, where I intend to stay for at least 2-3 more years. Its only trivial if the investment is made up. Otherwise, the company just sunk a couple grand into the house or apartment and got nothing out of it. |
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| Nightfall |
to elefante72
said by elefante72:I read Google fibre is about $600 per POP. So I would put Verizon somewhere in the $800 per POP range circa 2014. Maybe someone from Verizon can chime in, but that is what I am seeing at broadcast locations today... Fibre is actually cheaper than copper now, physically and will continue to be. Do you have a link or source to back this up? Back in 2011, a profitability study was done on FIOS and found it to be much more. » www.businessweek.com/mag ··· 9606.htmquote:
Frontier's proposed pricing moves suggest to Craig Moffett, a telecom analyst with Sanford C. Bernstein (AB), that FiOS does not turn a profit for Verizon, either. Moffett says his view is reinforced by Verizon's announcement in 2010 that it would effectively freeze its FiOS footprint. "It was a tacit admission that building new networks is a losing proposition," he says. "Frontier is saying that even operating them after they're built might not be worth it." He estimates the project will end up having cost Verizon $4,000 per connected home. Moffett calculates the present value of acquired subscribers at $3,200 each.
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| Nightfall |
to Bengie25
said by Bengie25:I stayed home when I got fiber, so I could watch the installation.
Ignoring the trenching, it took one person about 10 minutes to connect the fiber that went to my cable box to the fiber that ran to my house. Then it took another person that came later, about 10-15 minutes get the outside fiber into the house. The time invested in the installation is not the only cost. The cost of the equipment to terminate the fiber is still around $2000 for both ends. In other studies, its much more per dwelling. |
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to OSUGoose
Re: GeeNah, don't believe that. Corporations don't, why spend money on their plant. There are more vacations to take and more jets to buy to get there. |
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Bengie25
join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI |
to Nightfall
Re: Just a drop in the bucketThe entire cost of everything is about $2,000, not just the fiber. An entirely functional fiber network from scratch for about $2,000 per dwelling unit in suburbs.
Many times it's more expensive in a dense city because running fiber in a large many story old apartment building is much harder than a house or duplex.
Assuming you're in a nicely laid out city. Can double and triple in price as your get into farm land, but we're talking about 1-2 house holds per square mile, and not doing the more expensive underground installation. |
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to ITALIAN926
Re: Enough Savings to Expand FIOS?Verizon acting in the so-called PUBLIC INEREST died sometime in 2006 - 2008 when AT&T was allowed to creep away from it's promises post Bell South merger.. Although this is some what a chicken & the egg-- or chicken little story (take your pick). Verizon will use about 99.9999% of profits to benefit top management, PREFERRED shareholders, and NOBODY ELSE.. since the record speaks for itself in the last decade. |
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jjeffeoryjjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN |
to elefante72
Re: Just a drop in the bucketVerizon trenches their cable? Not from what I've seen...
I Northern Virginia in the DC suburbs, they just throw the cable in the woods and vegetation grows up around it. Comcast does the same thing. I don't know about Cox, as they're in Fairfax county and it looked to me that they were a little neater.
I went house buying there a couple of years ago, and saw this time and time again at many locations.
Therefore if trenching is 75% of the costs, then Verizon is avoiding that cost in some areas of their footprint. |
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to Skippy25
Re: Enough Savings to Expand FIOS?said by Skippy25:Wireless, still relies on wireline and is probably decades away, if ever, from being a replacement to it for many applications. Never claimed that it was a replacement, just that it likely makes more sense for them to invest their limited CapEx monies in wireless at the current moment in time. said by Skippy25: Saying that wireless has not matured I think is a little over stated. It's a growth market, tens of millions of people without smart phones, vs. a hellva lot less people without access to Triple Play from an MSO or POTS/DSL/Satellite combo (not exactly the same, but still bundled billing, and lots of people are happy with it....) Think about it, how many people do you really know without access to Triple Play? said by Skippy25:Wireless will probably never mature if you are speaking of a final wireless protocol as they will always make improvements to it being it is so inadequate compared to wired. They will continue to invest billions upon billions over the next several decades just to keep up with it. W I'm speaking about the market itself. It's infinitely easier to get new customers than it is to steal customers away from a competitor, which is what they have to do if they seek to expand FIOS. They're right to focus on houses that already have access to FIOS (particularly those with unused ONTs hanging off the house....) but went with the MSO before they worry about expanding the footprint. It's all about ROI, and it's higher in wireless right now. |
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to elefante72
Re: Just a drop in the bucketGPON won't be "tapped" for eons. I don't know where you're getting that idea. That's 2.4 gbps shared amongst 32 people. Google easily offers 1 gbps over GPON. Sonys offering a 2 gbps service in japan over GPON. Verizon charges so much because they can. And XGPON is available and coming down in costs. |
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| sonicmerlin |
to Nightfall
The cost of $4000 is per "connected home", meaning you have to consider uptake rate. The higher the uptake rate, the lower the cost. But cost per any home, connected or not, should be in the very low 1000's. |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI |
said by sonicmerlin:The cost of $4000 is per "connected home", meaning you have to consider uptake rate. The higher the uptake rate, the lower the cost. But cost per any home, connected or not, should be in the very low 1000's. I guess I don't understand the uptake rate that you are talking about. I will do some searching on it. Do you have a link that may explain it for me? Also, does the uptake rate also take into account other connectivity such as copper or cable? |
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15444104 (banned)
Member
2013-Nov-26 11:20 pm
Criminal GREED.I would agree to a point but I would give them a date to complete it by before imposing some penalties.
Remember, it was the teleco's themselves that stated way back in 96 that they would deploy fiber and 45/45mbps would be the standard. Almost 20 years later and after we gave them hundreds of billions of dollars they really haven't done crap in the overall picture. |
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to Bengie25
Re: Just a drop in the bucketThat is now. I am talking about back 60-100 years ago when they were deploying it to begin with.
In today's dollars, I would be willing to bet it is still about the same if not less. |
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 linicxCaveat Emptor
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
United State |
linicx
Premium Member
2013-Nov-30 3:06 pm
DSL/Copper?Is not dead in rural America. It is very much alive and viable.What is cannot do is deliver a substantial speed in the farthest corner from the plant.
FCCs real job is to support the Telecommunications Act that requires telephone companies to maintain communications from coast to coast.
Despite the spin Verizon is a telephone company. It started with a PBX in Wisconsin nearly a century ago. It still controls a few thousand miles of copper. Sandy Hook, NJ., anyone?
If Verizon does not wish to live up to its obligations, then it should get out of the telephone business all together, and become the great cord cutter. messiah. BTW, VZN does not perform in AT&T land.
IMHO, none of these wireless companies will be more than a big pile of PR SPIN until they all use the same technology. Only then will wireless e911 be 100% viable and reliable across all America. And so will the phones.
There won't be any proprietary areas where your phone won't work but mine will. |
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mathstudent
Anon
2013-Dec-2 6:18 pm
checking the math...A presumably credible Verizon spokesperson says that converting 300,000 DSL lines saves 600,000 truck rolls in one year. Assuming 1 truck role to install FIOS, I cslculate that the average Vertizon DSL line requires 3 truck rolls per year to maintain - can it be so? Seems quite high from both customer satisfaction and I expect from Verizon financial perspectives. |
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to Nightfall
Re: Just a drop in the bucketMeaning if an ISP builds out fiber to 10 homes, but only 2 of them take up the service, then their uptake rate is 1/5 or 20%. So the cost of building out fiber to ten homes is spread out to only 2 paying households. So if it cost $1000 per home, it would be $10000 for all 10 homes, divided by 2 and you get $5000 per home. |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI |
said by sonicmerlin:Meaning if an ISP builds out fiber to 10 homes, but only 2 of them take up the service, then their uptake rate is 1/5 or 20%. So the cost of building out fiber to ten homes is spread out to only 2 paying households. So if it cost $1000 per home, it would be $10000 for all 10 homes, divided by 2 and you get $5000 per home. All signs point to FIOS not being profitable unless the customer is buying services for a period of 2.5-3 years. I hear you on the uptake rate, and it sounds plausible. At the same time though, it sounds pretty low. Even lower than FIOS estimates or the experts estimate. So while I do agree that the uptake rate should go down depending on the amount of houses in an area that purchase the service, I don't think it goes down that much. |
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