dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2013-12-16 16:50:29: In a bit of very important news, DC District Judge Richard Leon has issued an injunction on the NSA's bulk collection of metadata, arguing it is likely violating the Fourth Amendment. ..



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

Likely?

NSA Metadata Collection Likely Violating Constitution.

The 4th Amendment

quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Of course it all depends on what you mean by "unreasonable". If you believe that the gummint should be able to monitor everyone, everywhere, and all the time in order to

• Stop terrorists

• Protect the children

then everything is "reasonable".
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


IgnoreCourts

@comcast.net

One - SC will most likely OK gov't spying like they have in the past.
Two - even if ruled unconstitutional by SC, the NSA will likely ignore them and continue spying anyway.


Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

Spies don't know their ass from their elbow.

Spies were certainly ineffective at stopping the Boston Marathon Bombers even after being tipped off by the Russians. Demonstrates the futility of unlimited data collection and incompetence on the part of the spies. There is certainly another motive for monitoring the communications of all American Citizens! Call it Hooverism.



IgnoreCourts

@comcast.net

said by Mr Matt:

Spies were certainly ineffective at stopping the Boston Marathon Bombers even after being tipped off by the Russians. Demonstrates the futility of unlimited data collection and incompetence on the part of the spies. There is certainly another motive for monitoring the communications of all American Citizens! Call it Hooverism.

One example doesn't make a rule. And failures are public and successes invisible in the spy business.

MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·Time Warner Cable

Failures might be public in the PRIVATE spy business, but not in the GOVERNMENT spy business. As with all things the federal government has its tentacles in, failures are covered up as much as possible with the help of an agreeable media. Obama, nor his administration, has been held to account for anything in the same way previous Presidents have been. Eventually, the rats will either have to go down with the ship or flee and face the consequences.


Timothy28

join:2006-05-13
Lewisville, TX

You mean like how George W. Bush was held accountable for all the illegal things he did? Oh wait he wasn't your point is moot.


firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

Americans who are "suspicious of centralized federal authority, reverent of individual liberty" deemed domestic threat



Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
reply to Mr Matt

As someone who can not stand most of the NSA snooping, the idea that "spies" are ineffective is absurd. How can you argue this when you have no idea what they have stopped behind the scenes?


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Well, he was speaking specifically of the Boston Marathon; there is no doubt they were ineffective at stopping that.

As for how many might have been stopped behind the scenes... K. Alexander testified at an oversight hearing that there were 'one or perhaps two' terrorist incidents detected by the mass surveillance. He said it's not about the numbers, it is a 'peace of mind' program.



TSWYO
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Cheyenne, WY
reply to Bill Neilson

I could care less what they do behind the scenes. Do it the right way. Not on the backs of citizens and foreigners it has no right to collect data on.



Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to IgnoreCourts

Re: Likely?

said by IgnoreCourts :

One - SC will most likely OK gov't spying like they have in the past.
Two - even if ruled unconstitutional by SC, the NSA will likely ignore them and continue spying anyway.

still allows making prosecution imposable.
--
Live Free or Die Hard...

megarock

join:2001-06-28
Catawissa, MO

And to think...

it only took them 12 years to get that through their heads.



IgnoreCourts

@comcast.net
reply to StuartMW

Re: Likely?

15 other Federal Judges disagree with this lowly federal judge. His decision will be overturned:

»abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireSt···21236320

Vladeck said 15 judges on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court have examined Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act, the provision of law under which the data collection takes place, without finding constitutional problems. "There's a disconnect between the 15 judges on the FISA court who seem to think it's a no-brainer that Section 215 is constitutional, and Judge Leon, who seems to think otherwise."

Robert F. Turner, a professor at the University of Virginia's Center for National Security Law, predicted Leon's decision was highly likely to be reversed on appeal. He said the collection of telephone metadata — the issue in Monday's ruling — already has been addressed and resolved by the Supreme Court.



amarryat
Verizon FiOS

join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Timothy28

Re: Spies don't know their ass from their elbow.

said by Timothy28:

You mean like how George W. Bush was held accountable for all the illegal things he did?

Like what?

Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
reply to MrBungle87

said by MrBungle87 See ProfileObama, nor his administration, has been held to account for anything in the same way previous Presidents have been.[/bquote :

You can't hold the first black president accountable for anything. That would be racist!!!!!!!



w0g
o.O

join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

1 edit
reply to IgnoreCourts

Re: Likely?

It could actually prove that the FISA court is prejudiced and doesn't care about the law or the opinions of the people. The FISA court may have even found they couldn't spy at all if they thought the laws were being violated or disallowed it, so they made a door for themselves.

I am thinking the rest of the world might disagree with them, and we do since it's being challanged in court. Keep in mind the decisions are largely being driven by the motives and emotions of the judges themselves, and it can literally go either way, because of the conflicts of power. There are two sides raging a battle, each with their own judges in the courts. It comes down to who has the most installed judges..
--
www.oregonstatehospital.net - CIA and state of Oregon set me up and targeted me with a microwave weapon, learn more.



w0g
o.O

join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

blah, blah..blah..

Obligatory Remote Space Capability and Remote Sensing stuff still out there, and still not being delt with by fuckers in the media or legal system. Link: »www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/ru···ebl.html


MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Rekrul

Re: Spies don't know their ass from their elbow.

said by Rekrul See Profile
You can't hold the first black president accountable for anything. That would be racist!!!!!!!
[/bquote :

Ding ding ding!


Timothy28

join:2006-05-13
Lewisville, TX
reply to amarryat

You do realize his administration started the NSA wiretapping spying we are discussing. Not to mention war crimes, torture of prisoners, lying his way into war. Ignoring warnings about 9/11, The 13 other terrorist attacks on embassy's and consulates while he was in office with dozens killed. Yet, the current administration gets raked over the coals for Benghazi. If you asked me this question with a straight face shame on you.



IgnoreCourts

@comcast.net
reply to w0g

Re: Likely?

said by w0g:

I There are two sides raging a battle, each with their own judges in the courts. It comes down to who has the most installed judges..

I agree 100% with that statement. Decisions at high levels of Federal Courts are nothing about what is constitutional or not. It is all about political philosophy. But unless the USSC has a death soon, they will most likely rule in NSA's favor.


Read History

@comcast.net
reply to Timothy28

Re: Spies don't know their ass from their elbow.

said by Timothy28:

You do realize his administration started the NSA wiretapping spying we are discussing.

LOL. NSA spying started back with Harry Truman in 1952 and was already wiretapping everything before then. The NSA was preceded by army intelligence and other predecessor agencies all the way back to 1917. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_S···decessor

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surve···eillance

During World War II, first the War Department and later the Office of Censorship monitored "communications by mail, cable, radio, or other means of transmission passing between the United States and any foreign country".[4] In 1942 this included the 350,000 overseas cables and telegrams and 25,000 international telephone calls made each week.



amarryat
Verizon FiOS

join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA
reply to Timothy28

I did ask with a straight face, and haven't seen anything besides talking points in your response. Such as lying his way into war. I'd love to hear that one.