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I'm ShockedNo not really.
They've got massive outside support.
They're being good capitalists.
They're doing everything they can to make sure customers get to the products they have. | |
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Ug...They just don't get it. All this time and effort wasted on fighting piracy is pointless. They should refocus their efforts and money on making content conveniently available and at a fair price. Studies have shown that when content is easily available online through legit sites that piracy for that content significantly drops. | |
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anonome
Anon
2014-Jan-7 12:01 pm
Re: Ug...Time, effort, and--lest we forget--taxpayer dollars (ultimately, billions and billions [worldwide]). | |
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| |  TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA
3 recommendations |
TechyDad
Premium Member
2014-Jan-7 1:06 pm
Re: Ug...But those billions and billions are well-spent because piracy costs $100 septillion dollars every second - according to completely unbiased MPAA/RIAA figures that they definitely didn't pull from their posteriors! | |
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Re: Ug...Yes, because everything in life should be free. | |
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| | | | TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA |
TechyDad
Premium Member
2014-Jan-7 10:25 pm
Re: Ug...I don't think anybody has said everything in life should be free. I'd even agree that piracy is wrong. The fact remains that piracy exists, though. There will always be a subset of people who pirate works. Even if you offered movies in DRM-free formats for a nickle each, they'd pirate while claiming they'll only buy it they were a penny. This is a minority of people who pirate, though, and should be simply ignored. They'll never be customers and nothing you do will ever win them over.
The rest of the people can be won over if you offer your product at a fair price with as few restrictions as possible. For example, if you keep your popular TV show on a premium cable channel and not give any alternative method of watching it, many people will pirate it. Put it on Amazon Video on Demand or Netflix, though, and people will pay money to be able to watch it instead of pirating it. This is how you compete against piracy: By increasing the "how" and "where" you can watch, not only by decreasing the "how much" you pay to watch. | |
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| | | | dra6o0n
join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON |
to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:Yes, because everything in life should be free. Because everything in the life IS free, it's just that some people can protect what's theirs and some cannot. Your life is free for anyone to take it, your house is free for any kids who feels like egging it, your livelihood is free to be utterly smashed and destroyed by any sort of natural disasters. | |
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| | |  El QuintronCancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna |
to TechyDad
Meh, I think most of us who've worked on the ground floor of the entertainment industry (eg: aspiring film-makers, PAs, grips, ADs etc.) know that piracy can be both good and bad. Where most of this stuff gets hashed out though is in a boardroom packed with shareholders and executives who think that if they cut piracy by X then shares and dividends are going to go up by Y, which is very rarely the case. Can piracy help promote an independent production through word of mouth? Hell yes. Does it risk being more pirated than bought? Also a possibility, one that as an indie I wouldn't like to contemplate.  | |
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| | | | TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA |
TechyDad
Premium Member
2014-Jan-7 10:19 pm
Re: Ug...Piracy definitely has a cost on the item being pirated. Part of the problem, though, is that those folks in the board room trying to come up with ways to reduce piracy attempt scare tactics like claiming that they've lost $X where X is a ridiculously large number.
If it stopped there, it'd be laughable but harmless, but they use that figure to convince politicians that new draconian laws need to be passed protecting their industry (though most likely the big players more than the indie players) against those pirates.
When the new draconian laws don't result in a ridiculously-large increase in profits, they blame piracy again and try getting more laws passed. It has become a bogeyman for the industry to sow fear of and a scapegoat to blame all of their problems on.
Is it wrong to pirate works? Yes. However, it's a fact of life and the industry needs to learn how to win customers back, not how to tighten their iron fist even more in the vain hope that this will make piracy will stop when all similar actions haven't helped. | |
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| | | | | dra6o0n
join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON |
Re: Ug...Piracy doesn't take money out of the actors, artists, and other roles in the entertainment business's pay. They'll always be paid because thats the contract they signed.
It's the fat cats that don't many any 'additional' revenues due to piracy, the people at the higher levels of hierarchy who uses other people in order to make money. | |
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| | | | | El QuintronCancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna |
to TechyDad
said by TechyDad:Is it wrong to pirate works? Yes. However, it's a fact of life and the industry needs to learn how to win customers back, not how to tighten their iron fist even more in the vain hope that this will make piracy will stop when all similar actions haven't helped. I think piracy is a market response to a distorted market. The Oatmeal comic re: Game of Thrones is a perfect example of it. Netflix, Amazon VoD are great examples of effective ways to answer that dilemma. Now it's worth mentioning that HBO is a special case and won't ever be on any type of VoD any time soon, reason being that they've admitted that most of their money comes from being bundled with other channels and not subs directly. It also explains why they're fairly lenient toward piracy as well. The tide will change slowly, when the Biz realizes that pirates are in most cases their biggest customers as well they'll start moving in the right direction. | |
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Re: Ug...quote:
The tide will change slowly, when the Biz realizes that pirates are in most cases their biggest customers as well they'll start moving in the right direction.
I almost fell off my chair just now. So if every single person on the planet used Torrents, there would be MORE money flowing into the industry. Interesting ! | |
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| | | | | | | El QuintronCancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna |
Re: Ug...Most people who pirate have huge legal libraries,
If you have a 10k+ mp3s chances are you also have a crates of Vinyl, CDs and probably tapes as well (although I wouldn't admit to that publicly these days.) It's not like you're going to know what to pirate if you haven't invested huge amounts of time and money into music and movies already. | |
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| | | | | | |  NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P
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to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:So if every single person on the planet used Torrents, there would be MORE money flowing into the industry. I don't see it going that far. Torrenting isn't the only way to pirate IP. Visit DSLR's own "Filesharing Software" forum to see that. And it is not simple "plug'n'play" to pirate shows. I did my share of pirating anime when few American companies were obtaining rights to distribute anime shows in the U.S. But the ease of piracy changed, as well as the availability of translated anime; now most is quickly picked up and distributed through legitimate pay channels (in contrast with six years ago), while there is a learning curve to continued piracy that I don't have time to fuss with. I have not pirated a single show, or song in three years; and not out of fear of being caught. When the price is right, the ease of paying beats the complexity of pirating. | |
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| | | | | | | | El QuintronCancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna |
Re: Ug...said by NormanS:When the price is right, the ease of paying beats the complexity of pirating. Which is what most fans, who happen to be pirates in a lot of cases have been saying all along. Steam realized this a long time ago, and most former game pirates would rather give their money to Steam than bother with pirating a game. Same with music and TV series that don't launch in North America, do I want to scour the bowels of file sharing networks of dubious reputation? Hell no, just give me an easy way to get it, legally and get on with it. | |
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| | | | TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA |
TechyDad
Premium Member
2014-Jan-8 1:35 pm
Re: Ug...I've read that book and loved it. Fantastic tale that somehow takes the otherwise dry subject of copyright infringement and makes it hilarious (partly by adding aliens into the mix). | |
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to Moostang
I get the feeling it's going the other direction. It feels like the tip of the iceberg with certain content being pulled from places like netflix or the amazon store. Content owners signing exclusivity contracts with certain online retailers. Making it so people would have to sign up for multiple services to get content.
It seems the future is fragmenting content. Something that doesn't occur in the world of piracy. | |
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| BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT |
to Moostang
Exactly. The movie studios are doing it to themselves with outdated models of not releasing to rental and BD when it comes out in the theater, HBO is doing it by bundling to cable, etc, etc. VPN FTW. | |
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| | El QuintronCancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna |
Re: Ug...said by BiggA:HBO is doing it by bundling to cable, etc, etc. VPN FTW. Unfortunately for those of us who would like to get HBO fare on via digital distribution and those of us who would like to sub to HBO a-la-carte it won't happen according to HBO, specifically because the lion's share of HBO's income, comes from other channels paying it to be bundled along, and not from people subbing to HBO. EQ | |
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| | | BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT  ·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68
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BiggA
Premium Member
2014-Jan-8 6:38 pm
Re: Ug...HUH? What other channels bundling? It comes from cable subscribers who also subscribe to HBO. But by not offering a subscription without cable or a la carte offerings, they are causing piracy. They have, however, responded to it well, even saying they take the high piracy level of Game of Thrones as a compliment, unlike the crybaby movie industry. I don't have a problem if they choose to wall off their content, but when they do they should expect and tolerate piracy without having a hissy fit. If they decide they are making more money with their current deals in spite of piracy, then that's a business choice. They shouldn't be going around suing people or making "strike" systems or buying off Congress to make ridiculous laws like the DMCA. | |
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| | | | El QuintronCancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna |
Re: Ug...said by BiggA:But by not offering a subscription without cable or a la carte offerings, they are causing piracy. They have, however, responded to it well, even saying they take the high piracy level of Game of Thrones as a compliment, unlike the crybaby movie industry. They're fine with their levels of piracy, because most of their cash comes from the likes of Cinemax paying them to be sold alongside. It works for HBO, by keeping them flush with cash for the time being but the plan may not work out so hot when PayTV in general starts to tank. | |
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| | | | | BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT |
BiggA
Premium Member
2014-Jan-8 11:01 pm
Re: Ug...Pay TV in general isn't sinking. It has a lot of problems, namely absurdly high carriage fees, but it's not sinking. Something has to happen though, as the prices are out of control. | |
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| | | | | | El QuintronCancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna |
Re: Ug...said by BiggA:Pay TV in general isn't sinking. Not yet. | |
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 pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE |
Draconian Caps NextThe next effort the **aa will try is to get the ISPs to institute very heavy caps on use.
If your data is limited, it make it hard to pirate movies. Of course there will be collateral damage to the likes of Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube, etc. but al is fair in war, right? | |
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|  tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA |
tshirt
Premium Member
2014-Jan-7 12:03 pm
Re: Draconian Caps NextAnd the users paying for content from Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube, etc. will know who to blame. | |
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Re: Draconian Caps NextThe ISPs seem quite happy blaming users of those services for "congestion"
Piracy and Streaming both compete with their precious Broadcast TV, caps are coming either way.
Or "Preferred Access" AKA Raising rates on Internet and Netflix ETC. | |
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| | | tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
1 recommendation |
tshirt
Premium Member
2014-Jan-7 12:41 pm
Re: Draconian Caps Nextsaid by buzz_4_20:Piracy and Streaming both compete with their precious Broadcast TV, caps are coming either way. Piracy doesn't "COMPETE", it is not a authorized service or product, it is unlawful conversion. Netflix et al type services legitimately repackage content made for television and movie customers. the ISP is rightfully charging more, in return for delivering more personalized bits. Piracy does not contribute towards or benefit the continuing production of content in any way. said by pende_tim:but al is fair in war, right? Contrary to pirate legend, you aren't heroes of any "war", just cheapskate scumbags, still and minor percentage of total viewer and won't be missed by anyone. Your actions DISADVANTAGE all legit content users. | |
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Re: Draconian Caps NextRegardless if Piracy is legal or not, it's where some of those eyeballs are turning, without ADS even.
It's been shown that easily accessed fairly priced content drops piracy rates. | |
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| | | | TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA
2 recommendations |
to tshirt
I'll agree that piracy is unlawful, but it actually does wind up competing. Obviously, not on price, since there's no way the studios would release everything for free. However, it does compete on availability. As you make content available for fair prices legally, piracy drops. As you raise the price of content to unreasonable levels or put unfair restrictions on viewing of the content, piracy rises. The Oatmeal put it best in this comic: » theoatmeal.com/comics/ga ··· _thronesSo studios could compete with piracy by letting Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc make the shows available to subscribers online. (Either via all-you-can-watch subscription services or via pay-per-episode services.) Studios treat Netflix like a threat, but they are actually their single best ally in the fight against piracy. | |
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Re: Draconian Caps NextLoved the cartoon. You're right, it sums it up beautifully. No wonder GoT is one of the most pirated shows. | |
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shirter to tshirt
Anon
2014-Jan-7 2:42 pm
to tshirt
I am not watching any of these stupid movies or shows. They are dumb replica of the same dumb old superman story anyway. Personally I think the era of getting profit out of bullshit content is coming to an end. That's why parasites are trying to grab on to any dime they think they can grab. Very simple - people are tired of bullshit. There are other things in life then staring at TV set getting your brain reprogrammed. | |
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to tshirt
tshirt, content providers need to make the shows and movies available at a price the consumer feels is a value. Pirating is growing because the consumer doesn't agree with the current market price for content.
On top of that, torrents for highly shared content means you can have a 1080p movie over most cable speeds in under 30mins. The clients are very easy to use and the trackers make it very easy to find what you're looking for.
The market is clearly speaking what it wants. The content providers are fighting against the market. They will lose. | |
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to tshirt
said by tshirt :Your actions DISADVANTAGE all legit content users. Although I agree downloading movies you did not pay for is wrong, the law goes further by making it illegal to even make backup copies of the Blurays and DVDs you own. If one make copies of legally purchased discs for personal use ( i.e. PLEX to stream to multiple ROKUs throughout the home, DVD copies for the SUV when driving the kids, MP4 files onto the tablets, etc.) - does this also make someone a non-legit content user? According to the DMCA it does indeed. I realize we're talking torrenting here, but there are plenty of uses for legally purchased discs that do not include giving them away for free via torrent but are still considered illegal. I am not making excuses for pirates, but I could see making the case for someone torrenting who wanted a digital file of a movie they had already paid for if they did not have the knowledge or expertise in ripping their disc collection themselves. The MPAA expects you to buy the same movie multiple times in multiple formats. Um, sure. The idiotic IP laws need to change to reflect the already established personal use case law. Until then, I guess it is "ARRRRRR MATEY!" | |
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| | | | Bengie25
join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI |
to tshirt
Science has shown the opposite is true. Please back up your statements with science that is not sponsored with any amount of money from content providers.
Time and time again, they have shown sales increase after piracy increases and sales even decrease after piracy decreases.
Piracy is also known as free advertisement. On average, people who pirate the most, spend the most.
But you're just trolling because no one with a bit of background on the subject could come to the conclusion that non-commercial piracy is bad on average. | |
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| | | | | tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA |
tshirt
Premium Member
2014-Jan-7 8:01 pm
Re: Draconian Caps Nextsaid by Bengie25:Time and time again, they have shown sales increase after piracy increases and sales even decrease after piracy decreases.
Piracy is also known as free advertisement. On average, people who pirate the most, spend the most. And that's bullshit! Ever thread some idiot says "it's been shown..." and NO actual scientific study is ever revealed. IF it were TRUE, why would Karl do all the stories about the increasing piracy damaging the industry, and poster after poster claim they are driving the industry out of business? That doesn't sound like most believe that piracy is beneficial to anyone, but those not paying. The current marketing and pricing of content may be outrageous (I'm not defending that) but the people in content industry aren't stupid, and would go with a model closer to what people here are suggesting IF it provided anywhere near the same bottom line. | |
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| TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA |
to pende_tim
Given that many ISPs are cable TV providers, this isn't a bug, it's a feature. Killing Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube, etc means that people would need to turn to Cable TV for more video programming and fewer people would cut the cord. It's a win-win for the **AA and cable companies. | |
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name_qe357v5
Anon
2014-Jan-7 2:41 pm
Dear Studios, Please Produce LESS... CRAP...maybe its just me but have any one noticed that 90% of content is pure dumb crap? and they expect to make constant profit out of this crap that should not have been created in a first place. amazing | |
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 diablo18926R.I.P. Donald Lee Wise
join:2011-04-21
Friendly, WV |
DisappointmentSo many that have downloaded something, whether its a game or music or movie. After finding out that they don't even like it, they pitch it and move on. This is without paying a dime for the product that you pirated.
So many people that go out and buy say the samething and find out its crap and then its either in a yard sale or given away for free.
Should be where people find out how good the product is and figure out a price they would pay and see from there. If the product is crap after torrenting it, throw it away but don't waist money on something you will just end up giving away for free or put it somewhere and forget about it, just a total waist of money. Of course it saves from getting fined $150,000 but that's why you don't use those kinds of torrents or seed to others, otherwise you're calling it your product and makes you stick out like a swear thumb. | |
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