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Comments on news posted 2014-01-23 08:41:26: An independent executive branch board reached the conclusion that the NSA's efforts to collect billions of Americans’ phone records is illegal and should be discontinued, notes the Washington Post. ..

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pawpaw
join:2004-05-05
Asheville, NC

1 recommendation

pawpaw

Member

Repeal the Patriot Act Now

According to the State Apparatus for Security and Information (StASI), an adequate basis is not required.

You do not need to know what is going on, or in fact that anything is going on at all. You have no standing to sue in court for information, even if it directly affects you. If you think you do have standing you obtained that illegally, and it does not count because it is secret and not subject to any review.

The President has asserted his right to secretly detain and kill American citizens without trial.

Your representative voted billions of dollars without any knowledge of where the money is going, so yay for that.

You are LESS secure, due to all the unintended consequences.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

+1
And this goes with whatever the previous administration let slip in the cracks.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

1 edit

IPPlanMan

Member

It's a pattern...

What a waste of time. The President had no intention of taking the PCLOB's findings seriously.

Just like the Jobs Council which hasn't met in two years and is irrelevant/ignored: »www.whitehouse.gov/admin ··· -council

A Jobs Council with 92 million people out of the workforce. (»www.zerohedge.com/news/2 ··· 78-level)
A Privacy Board finding illegal conduct which will be largely ignored.

See a pattern here?

This President can't be trusted.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Joe McCarthy would love the NSA.

If this technology was available to Joe, all he would have to do was to present a list to the NSA of those identified members of the communist party in the past (1930's). The NSA could then search the list of those members and determine who they communicated with. Joe could then have the receivers of those communications, identified by metadata collection, declared subversives.

This snooping, is particularly handy as a way to declare citizens subversives that joined an organization when it was viewed favorably but dissociated themselves from the organization when it was not. Remember the Soviet Union was a US alley until after WWII ended and the cold war commenced. Anyone on the members list of Communist Party in the 30's was painted with a red brush in the 50's. Joe would not have had to extort the identity of associates of the "Communists" by threatening jail terms on those refusing to squeal. Just call the NSA.
Bengie25
join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI

Bengie25 to pawpaw

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to pawpaw

Re: Repeal the Patriot Act Now

In theory, if you blindly ignore any human factors, the NSA is a good thing, but then the NSA would be useless in such a world that we could trust other humans that much.

No matter their intentions, I draw on people with better words than I to explain history.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

Even with good intentions, the NSA, are at best, complete idiots to ignore history. Such stupid people should not be allowed in power. One should not only question the enemies, but also one self.

In trying to protect us from the enemy, they themselves have become what they try to defend us from.
pawpaw
join:2004-05-05
Asheville, NC

pawpaw to IPPlanMan

Member

to IPPlanMan

Re: It's a pattern...

Agreed. One small change: "This President can't be trusted." should read "A President can't be trusted."

Please don't make this a partisan issue. Both sides of the aisle are equally culpable.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

1 recommendation

MaynardKrebs to Mr Matt

Premium Member

to Mr Matt

Re: Joe McCarthy would love the NSA.

It's not just the State acting alone, it's also the State acting in-concert with corporations.

»www.theguardian.com/envi ··· te-spies
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks to Bengie25

Member

to Bengie25

Re: Repeal the Patriot Act Now

said by Bengie25:

In trying to protect us from the enemy, they themselves have become what they try to defend us from.

Did I miss the news story where NSA agents hijacked four airliners and murdered 3,000 people?

boogi man
join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL

boogi man

Member

no you missed the point of murdering those people, to instill fear and disruption. the nsa has become a national source of fear and disruption and thusly have become what they are charged with rooting out and killing.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

said by boogi man:

the nsa has become a national source of fear and disruption

Only to people who don't know how our Government actually works, the constraints imposed on the Intelligence Community, and the checks and balances in place to protect American civil liberties.

boogi man
join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL

2 recommendations

boogi man

Member

please sir step away from the coolaide.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

How insightful. Did it take you a long time to come up with that witty response?

P.S., It's Kool-aid.
Crookshanks

Crookshanks to Mr Matt

Member

to Mr Matt

Re: Joe McCarthy would love the NSA.

said by Mr Matt:

If this technology was available to Joe, all he would have to do was to present a list to the NSA of those identified members of the communist party in the past (1930's).

The NSA works for the Executive. McCarthy was a member of the Legislative. The Executive of his day (Eisenhower) did not approve of his tactics, but as a member of a different branch had little tangible influence over him.

Good job hitting all the right buzzwords though, even if you fail basic American history and civics.
firedrakes
join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

firedrakes

Member

well recently their was a new segment here in fl where gov thinks a poison plant is bio-weapon and is illegal
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

What of it? Ricin is a naturally occurring material that's illegal to possess. THC and cannabis are illegal in 48 of 50 States. Opiates are natural substances that are tightly regulated.

Your comment makes no sense.

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS

Premium Member

Illegal? No way

I'm pretty sure this is not illegal as the US is still under a state of emergency.

boogi man
join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL

1 recommendation

boogi man to Crookshanks

Member

to Crookshanks

Re: Repeal the Patriot Act Now

Nope not at all. I wouldn't insult the Kool-aid brand with the likes of someone that displays such disturbingly blind points of view.
IanR
join:2001-03-22
Fort Mill, SC

IanR

Member

It's interesting

So it took Snowden's revelations for a President's Review Board to be formed and now that board (in majority) agrees with Snowden that illegal intelligence gathering of citizens has been conducted by the NSA.

Whatever ones feelings about Snowden the US Government should offer Snowden immunity IF he immediately returns and immediately STOPS any future revelations as regards overseas intelligence gathering. His immunity should also be based upon the supposition that at no time has he colluded with any foreign power.

The US Government should also maintain an independent review board as a kind of Ombudsman for all future intelligence "whistle-blowers" to offer their insights to rather than have to do a "Snowden".

I believe these actions and steps are absolutely necessary, immediately to do a "damage control" re further possible revelations on overseas spying. We have to accept that ALL countries are in essence spying on each other. That's the world we live in today.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks to boogi man

Member

to boogi man

Re: Repeal the Patriot Act Now

There's nothing blind about my point of view. I have actually looked at the case law on the 4th Amendment, studied the history of FISA from the Cold War to the War on Terror, am a student of geopolitics and history, and my political views have evolved over time. You're talking to someone who demanded (and got) his money back from Obama for America when BHO reversed himself on telecom immunity back in 2008. Back then I would probably have agreed with you. My opinions have evolved as I've aged, something I suspect will happen to most of you.

"A man who isn't a socialist at age 20 has no heart. A man who still is at age 40 has no mind." -Winston Churchill (talking about economic issues, but it still came to mind in this context)
Crookshanks

Crookshanks to IanR

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to IanR

Re: It's interesting

said by IanR:

Whatever ones feelings about Snowden the US Government should offer Snowden immunity

Bullshit. He doesn't get off that easy.

Robert Gates said it pretty eloquently in his PBS interview, emphasis mine:
quote:
JUDY WOODRUFF: How much damage do you think these revelations have done? And do you think Snowden is a traitor or a hero?

ROBERT GATES: I think that the revelations have done a lot of damage.

They -- it sounds like they have the potential to do a lot more. I think he is a traitor. You know, we built -- we spent 40 years building institutions of oversight for intelligence since the mid-1970s in the Congress and the executive branch and in the judiciary.

There are multiple avenues for people who believe that the rules are being broken or that the law is being broken to pursue in order to bring those problems to authorities who can evaluate whether or not somebody is breaking the law in the intelligence community.

And for a 29-year-old basically to take it upon himself to ignore all of the institutions that have been built up by Republicans and Democrats in Washington over the last 40 years, I think, is an extraordinary act of hubris. And then to flee to the protection of that notorious protector of human rights and privacy and civil liberties, Vladimir Putin, I think, speaks volumes.

If he truly is as highly motivated and as idealistic as he says, then he should come home and face the music, much as earlier whistle-blowers like Daniel Ellsberg and others did.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to Crookshanks

Member

to Crookshanks

Re: Repeal the Patriot Act Now

lol. Ok...
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

1 recommendation

CXM_Splicer to Crookshanks

Premium Member

to Crookshanks

Re: It's interesting

said by Crookshanks:

ROBERT GATES: I think that the revelations have done a lot of damage.

Does he ever describe the damage he believes happened? If we want to throw around what we 'think' without having to provide any substantiating facts then I think the NSA spying program has done irreparable harm to the American people. For the government to take it upon themselves to set up a secret system to intentionally bypass the fourth amendment is an act of hubris an order of magnitude worse than what Snowden did. The people who came up with the 'secret interpretation' of the Patriot Act should be locked up and the charges against Snowden dropped.
said by Crookshanks:

If he truly is as highly motivated and as idealistic as he says, then he should come home and face the music, much as earlier whistle-blowers like Daniel Ellsberg and others did.

To what end? What would submitting yourself to the very injustice you are trying to expose accomplish?
63475675 (banned)
join:2014-01-06

63475675 (banned)

Member

NSA = Tyrannical Organization = UNconstitutional. Period.

The only thing that matters is whether the actions of this organization
VIOLATE the SUPREME LAW of the LAND, the US CONSTITUTION.

Fact is that the NSA actions clearly VIOLATE the 4TH AMENDMENT.

As such the actions of the NSA are UNconstitutional, treasonous, and tyrannical.

Therefore the NSA is null and void under our Constitutional Law.

It should be IMMEDIATELY shut down and those involved in violating our
Constitutional Rights should be put on trial for treason.

Rememberme
@206.19.213.x

Rememberme to Crookshanks

Anon

to Crookshanks

Re: It's interesting

But that is the point... those 40-year old 'oversight' institutions failed to do their job...

firephoto
Truth and reality matters
Premium Member
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

firephoto to Crookshanks

Premium Member

to Crookshanks

Re: Repeal the Patriot Act Now

said by Crookshanks:

Only to people who don't know how our Government actually works, the constraints imposed on the Intelligence Community, and the checks and balances in place to protect American civil liberties.

It's simple really. Nothing happens till you get caught doing that "nothing".

The whole thing can be explained easily too. If it was fully 100% government only doings, it would not exist. Because it has many thousands of people in the private sector making money from it that is exactly why it exists. You take away the profit, the programs go away.

w0g
o.O
join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

1 edit

w0g

Member

as a young person growing up..

I never heard shit about the NSA. LOL. now I think every young person knows, and every child born today has not had any privacy from the government for quite some time.

There are global surveillance systems that have been in place as early as the 1970s, maybe 1960s, or even 1950s, or 1940s. They have had mad fat wireless systems, radar, etc in place for along time. By 1976 is when radar was equipped with mind reading and mind altering technology called TAMI/Thought Amplifying and Mind Interface. They use this shit to commit covert psychic attacks on Amerixans, plus minding reading surveillance. The the following capabilities of TAMI are known: EEG cloning, EEG projection, memory probing, EEG heterodyning, ie beaming words, voices, video and others thoughts into the head of another, and reading of all thoughts, memory, what you see and hear, dream, and putting it all in a database. Apparently total world psychoenergy monitoring sits at 1.4 terabytes per second, and they can tune into any individual they want. All this info comes from Dr. Robert Duncan, CIA / DOD / US DOJ whistleblower.

His book the Matrix Deciphered is here: »www.oregonstatehospital. ··· ebl.html

Plus details on all this.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks to 63475675

Member

to 63475675

Re: NSA = Tyrannical Organization = UNconstitutional. Period.

It's so cute seeing people who don't know anything about Constitutional Law getting huffy and puffy about it. Since you're apparently only able to communicate in buzzwords, let me provide some that you can plug into Google to educate yourself:

Compelling state interest
Case law
National Security
Pen register

Sorry, did I need to CAPITALIZE THEM for you to comprehend them?
Crookshanks

Crookshanks to w0g

Member

to w0g

Re: as a young person growing up..

said by w0g:

They use this shit to commit covert psychic attacks on Amerixans, plus minding reading surveillance. The the following capabilities of TAMI are known: EEG cloning, EEG projection, memory probing, EEG heterodyning, ie beaming words, voices, video and others thoughts into the head of another, and reading of all thoughts, memory, what you see and hear, dream, and putting it all in a database.

Those don't work on me, you see I wear this tinfoil hat to keep the guys with the black helicopters from controlling my mind....

kkkkkkkkkkkk
@12.109.156.x

kkkkkkkkkkkk to Crookshanks

Anon

to Crookshanks

Re: It's interesting

it's kind of sad when the leader of russia is applauding your spy efforts and how great they are... »www.washingtontimes.com/ ··· rrorism/

and why wouldn't snowden get a pass? terrorist liberals get free passes and become honored guest speakers.

»www.democraticundergroun ··· 13430740

if snowden went through proper channels, none of this would have been brought to light. he would be held without trial so nobody ever found out. i can't remember the names now, but i recall one of the WMAL radio shows comparing snowden to other former american terrorists that are now public speakers for colleges too. don't care enough to google search it any further. keep drinking that stuff. when the government wants our opinions, they'll give it to us.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to Crookshanks

Premium Member

to Crookshanks
Eff Robert Gates. I don't give a darn about what institutions Republicans and Democrats have built in Washington D.C.
What I do care about is our Country, our Freedoms, our way of life.

Thank you Snowden.
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