pawpaw join:2004-05-05 Asheville, NC
1 recommendation |
pawpaw
Member
2014-Jan-23 8:54 am
Repeal the Patriot Act NowAccording to the State Apparatus for Security and Information (StASI), an adequate basis is not required.
You do not need to know what is going on, or in fact that anything is going on at all. You have no standing to sue in court for information, even if it directly affects you. If you think you do have standing you obtained that illegally, and it does not count because it is secret and not subject to any review.
The President has asserted his right to secretly detain and kill American citizens without trial.
Your representative voted billions of dollars without any knowledge of where the money is going, so yay for that.
You are LESS secure, due to all the unintended consequences. |
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+1 And this goes with whatever the previous administration let slip in the cracks. |
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IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman join:2000-09-20 Washington, DC 1 edit |
It's a pattern...What a waste of time. The President had no intention of taking the PCLOB's findings seriously. Just like the Jobs Council which hasn't met in two years and is irrelevant/ignored: » www.whitehouse.gov/admin ··· -councilA Jobs Council with 92 million people out of the workforce. (» www.zerohedge.com/news/2 ··· 78-level) A Privacy Board finding illegal conduct which will be largely ignored. See a pattern here? This President can't be trusted. |
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Joe McCarthy would love the NSA.If this technology was available to Joe, all he would have to do was to present a list to the NSA of those identified members of the communist party in the past (1930's). The NSA could then search the list of those members and determine who they communicated with. Joe could then have the receivers of those communications, identified by metadata collection, declared subversives.
This snooping, is particularly handy as a way to declare citizens subversives that joined an organization when it was viewed favorably but dissociated themselves from the organization when it was not. Remember the Soviet Union was a US alley until after WWII ended and the cold war commenced. Anyone on the members list of Communist Party in the 30's was painted with a red brush in the 50's. Joe would not have had to extort the identity of associates of the "Communists" by threatening jail terms on those refusing to squeal. Just call the NSA. |
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Bengie25 join:2010-04-22 Wisconsin Rapids, WI |
to pawpaw
Re: Repeal the Patriot Act NowIn theory, if you blindly ignore any human factors, the NSA is a good thing, but then the NSA would be useless in such a world that we could trust other humans that much.
No matter their intentions, I draw on people with better words than I to explain history.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"
Even with good intentions, the NSA, are at best, complete idiots to ignore history. Such stupid people should not be allowed in power. One should not only question the enemies, but also one self.
In trying to protect us from the enemy, they themselves have become what they try to defend us from. |
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pawpaw join:2004-05-05 Asheville, NC |
to IPPlanMan
Re: It's a pattern...Agreed. One small change: "This President can't be trusted." should read "A President can't be trusted."
Please don't make this a partisan issue. Both sides of the aisle are equally culpable. |
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MaynardKrebsWe did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee. Premium Member join:2009-06-17
1 recommendation |
to Mr Matt
Re: Joe McCarthy would love the NSA.It's not just the State acting alone, it's also the State acting in-concert with corporations. » www.theguardian.com/envi ··· te-spies |
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to Bengie25
Re: Repeal the Patriot Act Nowsaid by Bengie25:In trying to protect us from the enemy, they themselves have become what they try to defend us from. Did I miss the news story where NSA agents hijacked four airliners and murdered 3,000 people? |
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no you missed the point of murdering those people, to instill fear and disruption. the nsa has become a national source of fear and disruption and thusly have become what they are charged with rooting out and killing. |
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said by boogi man:the nsa has become a national source of fear and disruption Only to people who don't know how our Government actually works, the constraints imposed on the Intelligence Community, and the checks and balances in place to protect American civil liberties. |
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2 recommendations |
please sir step away from the coolaide. |
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How insightful. Did it take you a long time to come up with that witty response?
P.S., It's Kool-aid. |
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Crookshanks |
to Mr Matt
Re: Joe McCarthy would love the NSA.said by Mr Matt:If this technology was available to Joe, all he would have to do was to present a list to the NSA of those identified members of the communist party in the past (1930's). The NSA works for the Executive. McCarthy was a member of the Legislative. The Executive of his day (Eisenhower) did not approve of his tactics, but as a member of a different branch had little tangible influence over him. Good job hitting all the right buzzwords though, even if you fail basic American history and civics. |
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well recently their was a new segment here in fl where gov thinks a poison plant is bio-weapon and is illegal |
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What of it? Ricin is a naturally occurring material that's illegal to possess. THC and cannabis are illegal in 48 of 50 States. Opiates are natural substances that are tightly regulated.
Your comment makes no sense. |
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EUSKill cancer Premium Member join:2002-09-10 canada |
EUS
Premium Member
2014-Jan-23 2:50 pm
Illegal? No wayI'm pretty sure this is not illegal as the US is still under a state of emergency. |
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1 recommendation |
to Crookshanks
Re: Repeal the Patriot Act NowNope not at all. I wouldn't insult the Kool-aid brand with the likes of someone that displays such disturbingly blind points of view. |
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IanR join:2001-03-22 Fort Mill, SC |
IanR
Member
2014-Jan-23 3:21 pm
It's interestingSo it took Snowden's revelations for a President's Review Board to be formed and now that board (in majority) agrees with Snowden that illegal intelligence gathering of citizens has been conducted by the NSA.
Whatever ones feelings about Snowden the US Government should offer Snowden immunity IF he immediately returns and immediately STOPS any future revelations as regards overseas intelligence gathering. His immunity should also be based upon the supposition that at no time has he colluded with any foreign power.
The US Government should also maintain an independent review board as a kind of Ombudsman for all future intelligence "whistle-blowers" to offer their insights to rather than have to do a "Snowden".
I believe these actions and steps are absolutely necessary, immediately to do a "damage control" re further possible revelations on overseas spying. We have to accept that ALL countries are in essence spying on each other. That's the world we live in today. |
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to boogi man
Re: Repeal the Patriot Act NowThere's nothing blind about my point of view. I have actually looked at the case law on the 4th Amendment, studied the history of FISA from the Cold War to the War on Terror, am a student of geopolitics and history, and my political views have evolved over time. You're talking to someone who demanded (and got) his money back from Obama for America when BHO reversed himself on telecom immunity back in 2008. Back then I would probably have agreed with you. My opinions have evolved as I've aged, something I suspect will happen to most of you.
"A man who isn't a socialist at age 20 has no heart. A man who still is at age 40 has no mind." -Winston Churchill (talking about economic issues, but it still came to mind in this context) |
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Crookshanks |
to IanR
Re: It's interestingsaid by IanR:Whatever ones feelings about Snowden the US Government should offer Snowden immunity Bullshit. He doesn't get off that easy. Robert Gates said it pretty eloquently in his PBS interview, emphasis mine: quote: JUDY WOODRUFF: How much damage do you think these revelations have done? And do you think Snowden is a traitor or a hero?
ROBERT GATES: I think that the revelations have done a lot of damage.
They -- it sounds like they have the potential to do a lot more. I think he is a traitor. You know, we built -- we spent 40 years building institutions of oversight for intelligence since the mid-1970s in the Congress and the executive branch and in the judiciary.
There are multiple avenues for people who believe that the rules are being broken or that the law is being broken to pursue in order to bring those problems to authorities who can evaluate whether or not somebody is breaking the law in the intelligence community.
And for a 29-year-old basically to take it upon himself to ignore all of the institutions that have been built up by Republicans and Democrats in Washington over the last 40 years, I think, is an extraordinary act of hubris. And then to flee to the protection of that notorious protector of human rights and privacy and civil liberties, Vladimir Putin, I think, speaks volumes.
If he truly is as highly motivated and as idealistic as he says, then he should come home and face the music, much as earlier whistle-blowers like Daniel Ellsberg and others did.
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jjeffeoryjjeffeory join:2002-12-04 Bloomington, IN |
to Crookshanks
Re: Repeal the Patriot Act Nowlol. Ok... |
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CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picture Premium Member join:2011-08-11 NYC
1 recommendation |
to Crookshanks
Re: It's interestingsaid by Crookshanks:ROBERT GATES: I think that the revelations have done a lot of damage. Does he ever describe the damage he believes happened? If we want to throw around what we 'think' without having to provide any substantiating facts then I think the NSA spying program has done irreparable harm to the American people. For the government to take it upon themselves to set up a secret system to intentionally bypass the fourth amendment is an act of hubris an order of magnitude worse than what Snowden did. The people who came up with the 'secret interpretation' of the Patriot Act should be locked up and the charges against Snowden dropped. said by Crookshanks:If he truly is as highly motivated and as idealistic as he says, then he should come home and face the music, much as earlier whistle-blowers like Daniel Ellsberg and others did. To what end? What would submitting yourself to the very injustice you are trying to expose accomplish? |
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63475675 (banned)
Member
2014-Jan-23 4:20 pm
NSA = Tyrannical Organization = UNconstitutional. Period.The only thing that matters is whether the actions of this organization VIOLATE the SUPREME LAW of the LAND, the US CONSTITUTION.
Fact is that the NSA actions clearly VIOLATE the 4TH AMENDMENT.
As such the actions of the NSA are UNconstitutional, treasonous, and tyrannical.
Therefore the NSA is null and void under our Constitutional Law.
It should be IMMEDIATELY shut down and those involved in violating our Constitutional Rights should be put on trial for treason. |
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to Crookshanks
Re: It's interestingBut that is the point... those 40-year old 'oversight' institutions failed to do their job... |
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firephotoTruth and reality matters Premium Member join:2003-03-18 Brewster, WA |
to Crookshanks
Re: Repeal the Patriot Act Nowsaid by Crookshanks:Only to people who don't know how our Government actually works, the constraints imposed on the Intelligence Community, and the checks and balances in place to protect American civil liberties. It's simple really. Nothing happens till you get caught doing that "nothing". The whole thing can be explained easily too. If it was fully 100% government only doings, it would not exist. Because it has many thousands of people in the private sector making money from it that is exactly why it exists. You take away the profit, the programs go away. |
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w0go.O join:2001-08-30 Springfield, OR 1 edit |
w0g
Member
2014-Jan-23 4:57 pm
as a young person growing up..I never heard shit about the NSA. LOL. now I think every young person knows, and every child born today has not had any privacy from the government for quite some time. There are global surveillance systems that have been in place as early as the 1970s, maybe 1960s, or even 1950s, or 1940s. They have had mad fat wireless systems, radar, etc in place for along time. By 1976 is when radar was equipped with mind reading and mind altering technology called TAMI/Thought Amplifying and Mind Interface. They use this shit to commit covert psychic attacks on Amerixans, plus minding reading surveillance. The the following capabilities of TAMI are known: EEG cloning, EEG projection, memory probing, EEG heterodyning, ie beaming words, voices, video and others thoughts into the head of another, and reading of all thoughts, memory, what you see and hear, dream, and putting it all in a database. Apparently total world psychoenergy monitoring sits at 1.4 terabytes per second, and they can tune into any individual they want. All this info comes from Dr. Robert Duncan, CIA / DOD / US DOJ whistleblower. His book the Matrix Deciphered is here: » www.oregonstatehospital. ··· ebl.htmlPlus details on all this. |
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to 63475675
Re: NSA = Tyrannical Organization = UNconstitutional. Period.It's so cute seeing people who don't know anything about Constitutional Law getting huffy and puffy about it. Since you're apparently only able to communicate in buzzwords, let me provide some that you can plug into Google to educate yourself:
Compelling state interest Case law National Security Pen register
Sorry, did I need to CAPITALIZE THEM for you to comprehend them? |
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Crookshanks |
to w0g
Re: as a young person growing up..said by w0g: They use this shit to commit covert psychic attacks on Amerixans, plus minding reading surveillance. The the following capabilities of TAMI are known: EEG cloning, EEG projection, memory probing, EEG heterodyning, ie beaming words, voices, video and others thoughts into the head of another, and reading of all thoughts, memory, what you see and hear, dream, and putting it all in a database. Those don't work on me, you see I wear this tinfoil hat to keep the guys with the black helicopters from controlling my mind.... |
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to Crookshanks
Re: It's interestingit's kind of sad when the leader of russia is applauding your spy efforts and how great they are... » www.washingtontimes.com/ ··· rrorism/and why wouldn't snowden get a pass? terrorist liberals get free passes and become honored guest speakers. » www.democraticundergroun ··· 13430740if snowden went through proper channels, none of this would have been brought to light. he would be held without trial so nobody ever found out. i can't remember the names now, but i recall one of the WMAL radio shows comparing snowden to other former american terrorists that are now public speakers for colleges too. don't care enough to google search it any further. keep drinking that stuff. when the government wants our opinions, they'll give it to us. |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK |
to Crookshanks
Eff Robert Gates. I don't give a darn about what institutions Republicans and Democrats have built in Washington D.C. What I do care about is our Country, our Freedoms, our way of life.
Thank you Snowden. |
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