  newviewEx .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
6 recommendations |
newview
Premium Member
2014-Jan-23 12:52 pm
Modus Operandiquote:
"In principle, a domestic ISP now can legally impede the video streams that members request from Netflix, degrading the experience we jointly provide..the motivation could be to get Netflix to pay fees to stop this degradation," notes Hastings. "Were this draconian scenario to unfold with some ISP, we would vigorously protest and encourage our members to demand the open Internet they are paying their ISP to deliver."
Step one is already happening, and has been for some time. I spoke at length to a Netflix CSR rep just two days ago and he described the Comcast throttling issue policy as "common knowledge". | |
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 |  IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC |
Re: Modus OperandiSure would be great if a Comcast person could comment on this "common knowledge" in this thread... | |
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|  Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH |
to newview
said by newview:Step one is already happening... I'm not disputing that it may be, but it's awfully hard to prove, is it not ? | |
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| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
2 recommendations |
Re: Modus OperandiPerhaps a Comcast Snowden will step forward? | |
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| | dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21
Crystal Lake, IL |
to Hall
It's just a question of how long it takes someone to make a tool for measuring this. It would be easy enough for netflix to help with said measurements, even. | |
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| | | Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH |
Hall
MVM
2014-Jan-23 5:17 pm
Re: Modus OperandiI'm afraid it would all be somewhat circumstantial evidence though. You'd have to take a LOT of data to really see any trends... | |
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Re: Modus OperandiWith 44 million subscribers...larger than any single cable company or the internet base of a wireline phone company...I think Netflix is up to the job. | |
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to newview
I have Netflix and Time Warner. Both will lose if videos start getting thrown into buffering. I won't waste my time with customer support at either place.
Hope all goes well. But I have my doubts and suspect the clock is silently ticking. In fact, though I pay my bills annually in advance, Netflix and Time Warner will be taken out of that cycle and paid monthly when their current prepayment runs out in September. | |
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|  tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA |
to newview
common belief, is not knowledge.
Comcast has been quite clear that they intend to follow the agreement they made as part of the NBC merger, which bars the discrimination a NETFLIX employee CLAIMS.
They also publish their peering and handoff requirements which Netflix has choosen not to meet, but other sources seem to have no problem with.
Reed Hastings frequently plays the "they're picking on me!" card, hoping to get a price advantage that others don't, NF users (and I am currently one) have to face the fact that another price increase is coming and hope Reed doesn't fumble it again. | |
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| | newviewEx .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
3 recommendations |
newview
Premium Member
2014-Jan-23 2:34 pm
Re: Modus OperandiComcast has already settled a lawsuit with the FCC for $800,000 for failure to follow certain conditions of the NBC merger agreement. They were less than diligent to "visibly offer and actively market" standalone broadband internet access. I suspect (though of course cannot prove) that Comcast is also dragging it's feet complying, or actively avoiding, other aspects of the agreement, especially those that benefit Comcast and cannot be proven unless you have inside knowledge. As far as pricing polices goes, in my area, Comcast offers 10 ... yes that's 10 channels for $14.75. This laughable offer doesn't even meet their own criteria for the $15.00 discount. There is just no comparison between this offer and the $7.99 a month Netflix, even when they increase the price. Hell, even if they doubled the price it would be a better value than Comcast. Netflix wants to introduce three pricing tiers for new members » gigaom.com/2014/01/22/ne ··· -months/ | |
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| | | tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA |
tshirt
Premium Member
2014-Jan-23 3:09 pm
Re: Modus Operandisaid by newview:As far as pricing polices goes, in my area, Comcast offers 10 ... yes that's 10 channels for $14.75. This laughable offer doesn't even meet their own criteria for the $15.00 discount. Even though I'm unsure what it has to do with net neutrality, can you point to the terms of this deal? We have limited basic here at around $17 as per the franchise agreement but that's CATV not HSI, and wasn't because of the merger. | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Zoom 5341J
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to newview
The sad thing is, to "degrade" the connection, all they have to do is do nothing. Let it oversaturate and don't expand it. It's hard to prove someone is doing something malicious by not doing anything at all, and yet, that's *Exactly* what it would be. | |
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| | Bengie25
join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI |
Re: Modus OperandiIt's called being passive aggressive. | |
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| |  SarickIt's Only Logical
Premium Member
join:2003-06-03
USA |
Sarick to KrK
Premium Member
2014-Jan-24 5:22 am
to KrK
It's still a form of extortion. | |
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| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK |
KrK
Premium Member
2014-Jan-24 9:09 pm
Re: Modus OperandiAgreed. | |
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cybah
Member
2014-Jan-23 12:54 pm
That's fineThat's fine NetFlix, but are you going to startup a nationwide broadband ISP that will compete with Comcast, Charter, Verizon, etc etc. Offer the same speeds as they do on a same (somewhat) reliable network? Yeah I didn't think so...
It's fine to get everyone up in arms about this but it'll do little good. What can end users do?
We cancel our service? Nope, because for most, there's little or no alternatives..
Letter Write? BigTelCo/BigCable doesn't care. Write Lawmakers? Yeah the same people who are being paid off by BigCable/BigTelco... it will just fall on deaf ears.
It's a nice idea netflix, but in reality, it's not going to do much. | |
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Re: That's fineNetflix knows how many customers it has in some of its largest markets. I wouldn't be surprised if they started investing by proxy in alternate ISPs in those markets, by offering a discounted bundle or something similar. Or maybe they give away Internet transit for those ISPs (remember that they're buying plenty of transit for non-OpenConnect customers) to help them get those costs down to the level that larger ISPs enjoy (in Comcast's case they probably make more on paid peering than they spend on transit and the costs of setting up that peering combined). | |
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| | Bengie25
join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
1 recommendation |
Re: That's fineCustomers already pay for bandwidth, why should Netflix help at all, except some smaller ISPs that get raked over coals for not being big enough to get decent transit rates. | |
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dwarf knit to iansltx
Anon
2014-Jan-24 8:36 am
to iansltx
said by iansltx:Netflix knows how many customers it has in some of its largest markets. I wouldn't be surprised if they started investing by proxy in alternate ISPs in those markets, by offering a discounted bundle or something similar. Or maybe they give away Internet transit for those ISPs (remember that they're buying plenty of transit for non-OpenConnect customers) to help them get those costs down to the level that larger ISPs enjoy (in Comcast's case they probably make more on paid peering than they spend on transit and the costs of setting up that peering combined). Transit costs are dwarfed by the metro network costs to build and keep running. There will never be real alternate ISPs at any scale. The problem is that you have a servicethat has large fixed costs. If I am the only provider, life is good - i get all the customers. Add a competitor and we split it in half (over time). Keep adding competitors, and the pie gets sliced more ways. This is good for the customer for a while (e get cheaper service and they upgrade to compete), but bad if the pie is sliced too many ways as they are not making enough money to compete. Also, the startup costs are painful for a non-wireless solution and wireless isn't competitive on capacity. | |
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SunnyD
join:2009-03-20
Madison, AL |
SunnyD
Member
2014-Jan-23 1:00 pm
Who's pockets are deeper?That's all it's going to come down to. Unfortunately there's only ONE Netflix. There's far more than one "ISP". Last time I checked, the lobby for just AT&T or Verizon had far, FAR bigger wallets than you do, Reed. | |
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ColoDude
Anon
2014-Jan-23 2:09 pm
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?For some, there _isn't_ more than one ISP.
Not unless you include streaming HD over wireless carriers at $30+/hr. Or even streaming SD at $5/hr. | |
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| | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
1 recommendation |
elray
Member
2014-Jan-23 3:51 pm
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?So what?
Where is it written that anyone is entitled to stream Netflix at $8 a month, in lieu of local or satellite pay-tv services? | |
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| | |  SimbaSevenI Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT ·StarLink
1 recommendation |
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?said by elray:So what?
Where is it written that anyone is entitled to stream Netflix at $8 a month, in lieu of local or satellite pay-tv services? The same entitlement that let's you visit BBR without paying a "toll fee". I mean, why go here when there's several "tech*" channels on pay-tv? *There hasn't been a real Tech channel for at least a decade. | |
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| | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
1 recommendation |
elray
Member
2014-Jan-23 3:59 pm
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?With apologies to Justin, BBR doesn't create an undue traffic burden.
Netflix does. | |
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2 recommendations |
65194623 (banned)
Member
2014-Jan-23 6:05 pm
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?said by elray:With apologies to Justin, BBR doesn't create an undue traffic burden.
Netflix does. Using your Internet connection which you paid for is an undue burden? Seriously? Is that how screwed up North America has become? Using services you paid for and you're evil scum? Seriously twisted and screwed up. | |
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to elray
BBR also in and of itself won't convince someone that they need more than a 768k connection. Netflix on the other hand creates demand for 10+ Mbit connections per device connected, much more than any other Internet activity (just look at the traffic graphs). That includes BitTorrent et al.
If getting $30 more per month per subscriber because they aren't on the absolute most basic 'net tier is an undue burden, the cablecos need to have their heads checked. | |
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1 recommendation |
65194623 (banned)
Member
2014-Jan-23 6:11 pm
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?said by iansltx:BBR also in and of itself won't convince someone that they need more than a 768k connection. The vast majority of net connected surfers have much faster connections whether using Netflix or not. | |
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| | | | | BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
1 recommendation |
to elray
HUH? If it's an undue burden for an ISP, then they apparently can't do their job, and should GTFO of the ISP business. | |
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1 recommendation |
65194623 (banned)
Member
2014-Jan-23 6:19 pm
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?said by BiggA:HUH? If it's an undue burden for an ISP, then they apparently can't do their job, and should GTFO of the ISP business. In the telecomms business the mindset all too often is charge the customer but then not deliver on the service and even worse too many consumers actually buy into this nonsense. | |
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| | | | | | | BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT |
BiggA
Premium Member
2014-Jan-26 10:20 pm
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?True. And buy the government off so that the government can't force them to actually deliver the service they are selling. It's not like most people have any choice. | |
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| | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
1 edit
1 recommendation |
KrK to elray
Premium Member
2014-Jan-23 6:41 pm
to elray
I disagree that Netflix creates an undue burden. | |
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| | | betam4x
join:2002-10-12
Nashville, TN
1 recommendation |
to elray
I suspect you must be a cable company shill to post that. Where is it written that comcast or any other cable company is entitled to my money at all? | |
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| | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA |
elray
Member
2014-Jan-23 8:30 pm
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?I have no love lost for the cable industry, nor, any vested interest in them. I only call things as I see them and give credit where it is due, and in a post-Adelphia, post-Rigas world, our regional cable companies have done a fantastic job at providing broadband and telephony.
As for Comcast, no, they are not entitled to your money; this still somewhat a free country - unlike "health insurance" and many a muni, you are not required by law to pay them anything. | |
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1 recommendation |
65194623 (banned)
Member
2014-Jan-23 8:55 pm
Re: Who's pockets are deeper?said by elray:I only call things as I see them and give credit where it is due, and in a post-Adelphia, post-Rigas world, our regional cable companies have done a fantastic job at providing broadband and telephony.
As for Comcast, no, they are not entitled to your money; this still somewhat a free country - unlike "health insurance" and many a muni, you are not required by law to pay them anything. Then you need some serious help. Your posts claim otherwise. | |
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| SimbaSevenI Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
1 recommendation |
to SunnyD
There isn't more than one "ISP" for most people.. and if you suggest Satellite, we'll beat you with a stick like a piñata. | |
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| elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA |
to SunnyD
There is only one Netflix, because the content industry wised up after they realized they had sold their 3rd-rate cutting-room floor scraps too cheap. No one else is going to have a chance to offer even their pathetic library at that price point.
The ISPs, including those in the pay-tv business, aren't going to intentionally congest Netflix - that would cost too much goodwill. But they will, at the same time, not be blackmailed by Netflix into paying their overhead. | |
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 kpfx
join:2005-10-28
San Antonio, TX
1 recommendation |
kpfx
Member
2014-Jan-23 1:09 pm
Sponsored Data does already existI hate the idea of "sponsored data" but the more I think about it, I see that it does already exist and has for many years.
Anybody that subscribes to video or phone services from a telco or cable company are already paying for a "sponsored connection". Its delivered over the same infrastructure and in many cases over the same TCP/IP platform that our modems are running on. Yet a cable's phone service or telco's video platform doesn't count against the end user's Internet caps or bandwidth (they're provisioned above whatever Internet level is subscribed to).
I'm just throwing this thought out there for academic discussion. Its a tricky situation because that's now being expanded to the "Internet". I'm still wrestling with the implications in my head on how this could affect both sides, but bottom line there's probably going to be some radical chances in the next 5-10 years. | |
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Enough with the VZW dead horse already......... Verizon Wireless doesn't prevent you from running apps on their network.
They lock down some of their subsidized phones. They don't block apps/ports/protocols accessed via their data cards and you've always got the option of bringing your own device rather than buying a VZW bloatware filled smartphone.
I may not agree with their behavior, but it's not THAT hard to bypass it. All you have to do is buy your own phone and not ask them to subsidize it. | |
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1 recommendation |
BizarreWhats with some of the bizarre responses on here where people want Netflix to fail? They provide a great service at a modest price. Whats not to like? You like paying more for your entertainment? Did Netflix run over your dog? Are you Verizon shareholders? I don't understand the hate? | |
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1 recommendation |
65194623 (banned)
Member
2014-Jan-23 6:58 pm
Re: Bizarresaid by axiomatic:Whats with some of the bizarre responses on here where people want Netflix to fail? They provide a great service at a modest price. Whats not to like? You like paying more for your entertainment? Did Netflix run over your dog? Are you Verizon shareholders? I don't understand the hate? Its some of the usual posters on here that are either corporate shills and/or have serious mental issues. | |
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who has bigger pockets?Netflix or the cable/telcos? Whichever pays the most to Congress/courts will win. This will be decided based on who slips the most money into the right pockets.
My money is on the cable/telcos - they have more money than Netflix, so they will be able to demand more money from Netflix to allow Netflix to get through.
Bribery works wonders in Washington, whether it's to the White House, Congress, federal agencies, or the SCOTUS - all are open to the money. | |
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1 recommendation |
65194623 (banned)
Member
2014-Jan-23 7:33 pm
Re: who has bigger pockets?said by old_wiz_60:My money is on the cable/telcos - they have more money than Netflix, so they will be able to demand more money from Netflix to allow Netflix to get through. North American corruption at its finest.... North America is so screwed its not funny. This is what is known as extortion. The fact that this is illegal in every other sense but is somehow rationalized as being Ok for the Internet is nonsense. | |
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betam4x
join:2002-10-12
Nashville, TN |
ThrottlingIf throttling and/or blocking netflix and youtube actively becomes an issue, I'm sure that netflix will partner with Google to help expand Google's fiber footprint. | |
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couldbytebak
Anon
2014-Jan-23 9:37 pm
Re: ThrottlingYea but that could come back to byte them too. Suppose Vimeo decides they want to sponsor or allow free bandwidth to their CDN services, or amazon prime to their CDN and paying the bill. Google and netflix won't put up with that for long as it would cost them subscribers. | |
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| | intok (banned)
join:2012-03-15 |
intok (banned)
Member
2014-Jan-25 2:09 pm
Re: ThrottlingAt the very least the 4 of them need to get together to fight back against the ISPs. The more large-medium sized internet content companies join up the better chance they have of not getting screwed by the ISPs and their bought and paid for bureaucrats. | |
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