dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2014-01-24 08:47:22: As we've been discussing, if ISPs are going to violate network neutrality now that we have no protection rules, it won't be by the outright blocking of content or services, given that would bring down the hammer of government intervention. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

Corporate Wars

quote:
In the States AT&T's "sponsored data" is a perfect example, promising users "free data" that doesn't count against their cap, while really giving AT&T significantly more power while giving deeper-pocketed content companies an advantage over startups and small companies.
The problem with this concept is that the deeper pocketed content companies did not get that way by spending money. They got that way be not spending. As Netflix told their investors (page 6)

said by Netflix :
The motivation could be to get Netflix to pay fees to stop this degradation. Were this draconian scenario to unfold with some ISP, we would vigorously protest and encourage our members to demand the open Internet they are paying their ISP to deliver.
The ISPs are going to have a hard time coming out on top in this fight and should they attempt to charge more for access they may end up with greater government regulation, something that ISPs want to avoid.
--
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." - Robert A. Heinlein


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39
For every still-trying-to innovate Netflix there's going to be five just-trying-to-protect turf ESPN's who think this sort of thing is a wonderful concept.

masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM
reply to Kilroy
This was likely regulator's plan all along too, they don't have the backbone or political backing to pre-emptively stop ISPs from doing this. Instead they watched and waited for their hand to be forced. The end result may very well be regulators get more control than they would have being pre-emptive as well. Still, it is the people who the regulators are supposed to protect who are being harmed in these power struggles.

Millenium

join:2013-10-30
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 edit

So much wasted

What disappoints me the most is I spent nearly a $1000 just a little over a year ago upgrading to wireless Smart TVs so I could use Netflix unfettered. Guess I can't see everything coming.

Enjoy internet while it lasts I will. I know I've spent my last dollar on anything that needs internet. Soon there will be no ISPs, just PNSPs. Private Network Service Providers.


cork1958
Cork
Premium
join:2000-02-26
reply to masterbinky

Re: Corporate Wars

said by masterbinky:

Still, it is the people who the regulators are supposed to protect who are being harmed in these power struggles.

So, what else is new?

Our wonderfully corrupt governments at work, being paid for by the lobbyists with the deepest pockets!
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile

Neutrality hasn't failed here ... yet.

The big difference here it is the ISP giving themselves preferential treatment and that violates more than just the network neutrality rules. There are regulations about BDUs giving themselves preferential treatment.

This is in essence an anti-monopolistic behaviour regulation here.

Network neutrality is somewhat different, although it is as one might say, the start of a slippery slope. What has happened in the US is clearly just forget the slope, let's just blow the concept right away.


NotDeadYet

@161.113.20.x
reply to Millenium

Re: So much wasted

There is the small hope that this will spur more public entities to create public ISP's, though the funds they have to do that pale in comparison to AT*T's and Verizon's legal budgets.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Corporate Wars

@Karl

Read this thread to see what's going on up here
»ITMP undue preference complaint filed against Bell

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
reply to Karl Bode
Netflix isn't innovating anything.

Millenium

join:2013-10-30
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

Low price. On most every device available. Use it anywhere there is internet (except Comcast so far). No pay-per-view upcharges. No commercials. Watch what you want when you want from a large library.

That's quite a change. A nice change from what is available anywhere else.


PlusOne

@comcast.net
said by Millenium:

Use it anywhere there is internet (except Comcast so far).

Netflix works on Comcast, though the accusation Comcast throttles it has some merit based on my experience.


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39
reply to MaynardKrebs
Looks like the complaint is on hold? Any idea for how long?


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39
reply to Millenium
said by Millenium:

Low price. On most every device available. Use it anywhere there is internet (except Comcast so far). No pay-per-view upcharges. No commercials. Watch what you want when you want from a large library.

That's quite a change. A nice change from what is available anywhere else.

Yeah, no innovation there, huh?

bklass
Premium
join:2012-02-06
Canada
kudos:2
reply to sbrook

Re: Neutrality hasn't failed here ... yet.

bump

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Corporate Wars

said by Karl Bode:

Looks like the complaint is on hold? Any idea for how long?

Nope. Pay attention to that on-going thread in Canadian Broadband. As soon as there's news to post it'll be posted there within minutes of it happening.

There'll be a real shitstorm (that's straight from Romulan Hyperspace) if the CRTC cancels the proceeding, or significantly waters it down.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
It's on hold for a bit to deal with Procedural Requests, so we don't have 3 proceedings about the same thing all going on at once.

PIAC didn't get their own way with Ben's Part 1, so they started Part 1s against Rogers & Videotron..
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

News readers get it wrong.

If I pay a premium for a high speed broadband tier it would be fraud to intentionally interferer with the data stream, from a website, to force customers to pay an additional fee for access to that websites at the speed the customer is paying for. Comcast is good at taking away features and services and then charging customers to get the features or services back. When video on demand was introduced customers had access to a large library of movies. A year later Comcast advised customers that in order to continue to have access to the same movies, customers would have to pay an additional $4.99 per month. Another example of greed unlimited.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Corporate Wars

Netflix isn't offering the same prime content as pay-tv and premium channels.

They have leftovers, table-scraps, and direct-to-video junk.
Stuff you never have to worry about someone else checking out from the public library collection.

Hastings deserves credit for "eliminating late fees" in the DVD rental era, and for catching the studios off-guard to sell their junk for even less than its worth, but that isn't innovation, its negotiation. What he is providing isn't something new, it is a rehashing and reformatting of something old, at a price point low enough that people will buy it and then do their best hand-wringing and attempt to compare it to premium channel and PPV fare.

If he actually caused cord-cutting (he isn't), then you could say he's a disruptive force, but really, that only applies to the downfall of the DVD rental stores.

Millenium

join:2013-10-30
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
said by elray:

They have leftovers, table-scraps, and direct-to-video junk.
Stuff you never have to worry about someone else checking out from the public library collection.

True. But they also have the "prime" stuff too. Sons of Anarchy, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, and many, many others. Generally the previous season and back. But if you aren't using cable, like me, previous season is new season. They also recently contracted with Disney for early run rights and a bunch of their other material.

They are also producing their own quality content, as is Amazon.


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39
reply to elray
Me thinks you're just being contrarian.

They took a DVD empire online and successfully navigated performance pitfalls, completely revolutionized the way many people consume video on mobile devices, did it at an excellent price, and gave cable industry executives bad dreams. They're the first streaming company to win an Emmy award via original content, and they're bringing a significant amount of foreign TV overseas.

Again, yeah. Nothing much impressive going on there. Great point.

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
reply to elray
I find things to watch on Netflex whenever I want. In case you don't know, there's crap on the other services too. Even free TV has crap on. It may be "New" crap during prime time. but crap is crap...

Millenium

join:2013-10-30
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
Probably cable's biggest advantage is their half hour commercials for the latest colon cleans that'll cure all your health problems and 3 others you don't have.

I miss cable. Yeah, right.


anonome

@verizon.net

The "Internet"...

as delivered by the likes of Verizon and Comcast is a sinking ship.

I'm getting off... where's the lifeboat?


Treegravy
Premium
join:2011-04-21
canada
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Millenium

Re: So much wasted

said by Millenium:

Soon there will be no ISPs, just PNSPs. Private Network Service Providers.

What an incredibly sad statement. :/ Oh Internet! I hardly knew thee!

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to jjeffeory

Re: Corporate Wars

You illustrate my point.

Instead of watching what you want - that's on prime, pay-tv, and premium networks, you are settling for finding "something" to watch, and justifying it.

While there is nothing wrong with making the economic choice to buy Netflix over premium channels or PPVs or other cable tiers, so long as you or Netflix is willing to pay the overhead for the delivery stream, Netflix content remains not comparable to what one obtains on cable or satellite.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to Millenium

Re: So much wasted

said by Millenium:

What disappoints me the most is I spent nearly a $1000 just a little over a year ago upgrading to wireless Smart TVs so I could use Netflix unfettered. Guess I can't see everything coming.

I'm sure your $1K investment still works just fine.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Corporate Wars

Cable executives don't lose sleep over Netflix.

No one cares for foreign TV. That just exemplifies the weakness of their catalog and their inability to obtain prime content.

They did NOT take a DVD empire online - their DVD library is not available for streaming. They were simply wise enough to realize there was an opportunity to stream tripe for cheap, and they had an existing subscriber base to sell to.

People aren't going to be consuming video on mobile data service, there isn't sufficient bandwidth to allow that - you protest so daily over wireless data caps. Again, just because the technology exists and Netflix standardized the delivery, doesn't make it innovative.

Ahem. I'm *not* being contrarian.

I give Netflix credit for providing a low-budget service, eliminating late fees, and providing a large, diverse library by mail. But the streaming service is not on par, and it will only appeal so long as Hastings can keep it cheap and browbeat the ISPs into providing a free ride for his bits, even though he's the biggest data hog in the world.

Adding in-house production is swell, but it comes at the price of losing what little prime content they already contracted.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to masterbinky
said by masterbinky:

This was likely regulator's plan all along too, they don't have the backbone or political backing to pre-emptively stop ISPs from doing this.

Even if they wanted to, governments generally do not have jurisdictions over the details of how ISPs operate their network so they would be unable to do anything about ISPs not buying sufficient external transit or building sufficient internal transit to handle more traffic, exactly how traffic gets routed internally and tons of other internal stuff that could be leveraged to favor selected content sources without specifically interfering with any other.

Same goes for cache appliances: I seriously doubt governments can order ISPs NOT to improve their network's efficiency by deploying CDN and content provider caches at strategic points across their network to reduce both internal and external load and latency.

It really boils down to economies of scale: large companies have the capital and influence to buy their way into networks to reduce their net cost while improving services. While Netflix is crying about network neutrality now, there was a time not so long ago where Netflix did make peering with their CDN mandatory for subscribers to gain access to their HD/2k resolution options.

Millenium

join:2013-10-30
kudos:1
reply to openbox9

Re: So much wasted

So far. I hope it doesn't end. We'll see.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

All they have to do is nothing at all....

Peer oversaturated? Simply don't upgrade it. Let it get worse.

When companies complain, show them to the toll road and say "Pay up".

They refuse? Leave them on the over-saturated slow lane.

This is wrong on so many levels.

I wish I had a business where I could simply extort money by sitting on my ass. I'm hoping there is serious pushback on this issue, or we're screwed.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini