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Comments on news posted 2014-01-24 09:44:21: Last September, a study out of Australia found that "graduated response" (aka "three strikes") anti-piracy systems do little to nothing to actually combat piracy, effectively meaning the industry's ever-escalating game of whac-a-mole doesn't actually.. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

2 edits

Public Flogging


Led Zeppelin fans punished
Put em on the pillory for a good flogging.

"Those who gathered to watch the punishment typically wanted to make the offender's experience as unpleasant as possible. In addition to being jeered and mocked, those in the pillory might be pelted with rotten food, mud, offal, dead animals, and animal excrement."

I don't think they really went through with the 3 strikes because that one person who was booted off got right back onto the net, thereby negating any benefits that could have been observed.
--
Let them eat FIBER!


your name

@ecatel.net
said by gaforces:

I don't think they really went through with the 3 strikes because those people who were booted off got right back onto the net, thereby negating any benefits that could have been observed.

Three strikes has not been effective for 1 very good reason - the government has made no attempt whatever to enforce the law. The legislators passed the laws, but the executive arm of government has had no desire to enforce it. Why that is the case is a mystery.

masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM
It came down to practicality, 'You want us to use our budget on THAT?!'

mlcarson

join:2001-09-20
Los Alamos, NM
reply to your name
Just what we need -- more government in our daily lives. The answer to all of this is to restrict damage settlements to 3x the value of whatever MSRP of the copyrighted item was. Stop using the ISP's as enforcement agents. Let the studios sue anybody they want but no more huge judgments on an individual. Some movie sells for $50-- you can't get any more than $150 for the infringement. The punishment would then again fit the crime.


Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
Exactly. I'd even accept 10x the MSRP of the copyrighted item. If you find someone infringing on the copyright of a hundred songs, you'd fine them $990 ($0.99 * 10 * 100). If someone posted 20 movie DVD rips (assuming each DVD had a MSRP of $20), they would be on the hook for $4,000. It would be a financial hit to most people, but not one that would result in financial ruin.

The exception to this would be people who infringed copyright for profit. For example, if you took those DVD rips, burned them onto blank DVDs and sold them on a street corner, then you should get the $750 - $150,000 penalty per infringement. That's what those figures were originally intended for. The application to non-commercial "home" infringement came later.
--
-Jason Levine


xXDigitalXx

join:2014-01-22
Saint Petersburg, FL
you can not get blood from a turnip, america also has a nationanwide three strikes and you go to federal prison/pen, not jail, for a very long time. The three strike rule is nothing new to all crimes.

dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON
reply to your name
It's not limited to the 'law' of anti-piracy that the government had failed at.


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Jason Levine
said by Jason Levine:

(assuming each DVD had a MSRP of $20),

So they change the MSRP to $50k per song and then have them on sale at 99 cents.

The contention that those mis appropriating property should then only be liable for the retail value when later caught and prosecuted is silly.
The treble damages mentioned above is closer, but neglects to add "attorney's fees, court costs, and other expense of recovery" that are standard to the calculation of restitution.


TKJunkMail
Premium
join:2005-12-09
reply to your name
"Three strikes" isn't a law.


PlusOne

@comcast.net
said by TKJunkMail:

"Three strikes" isn't a law.

It is in Australia and France, which was quoted in this story.

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
reply to mlcarson
Agree with you in principle, but what about all the resources expended to enforce the law? Should there be some built in amount to take that into account, or do you believe that our taxes pay for that part of the process?

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
reply to Jason Levine
I'm pretty sure $4,000 would result in financial ruin for quite a few people. I know of one person who had to file for Bankruptcy when she owed $10k. I agree $4k is much less than $150k, but we have to remember that this is infringement, not murder or grand theft auto.


Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
reply to tshirt
If the MSRP is set to $50,000 and every site is selling them for $0.99, then there could be a case to argue to a judge that the record labels are colluding to set the MSRP artificially high in order to collect higher copyright infringement fees.
--
-Jason Levine


Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
reply to jjeffeory
At least the $4,000 (for pirating 20 DVD movie rips) would be more in line with the "damages" (yes, I'm using the term loosely) than $750 - $150,000 per infringement.

$4,000 would definitely result in financial ruin for a lot of people, but courts could set up some sort of payment plan to account for the fact that the person can't just stop by the ATM and take out that much cash. A $4,000 payment plan is much less likely to cause financial ruin than a $150,000 payment plan.

Finally, reduced fines would mean people would be able to fight back. If you are facing the possibility of $150,000 in fines, you're likely to take the $2,000 settlement even if you are innocent. If the fine faced is $4,000, you might just fight back. And the more people who fight back for being wrongly accused, the less the recording industry (and other content providers) can use bullying people into settlements regardless of guilt as a side business.
--
-Jason Levine


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
reply to Jason Levine
You only need to offer it at full price for a while to set the retail MSRP even if no one buys it at that price.
As I said treble damage PLUS recovery costs is not unreasonable.

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

The contention that those mis appropriating property should then only be liable for the retail value when later caught and prosecuted is silly.

Actually, that is exactly how shoplifting is prosecuted.


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
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said by CXM_Splicer:

Actually, that is exactly how shoplifting is prosecuted.

This is not shoplifting.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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join:2001-02-14
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said by tshirt:

This is not shoplifting.

What happened to, "Piracy is theft"?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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reply to Jason Levine
said by Jason Levine:

Finally, reduced fines would mean people would be able to fight back. If you are facing the possibility of $150,000 in fines, you're likely to take the $2,000 settlement even if you are innocent.

Who, in the U.S., has ever been criminally prosecuted for digital piracy?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

The entertainment industry..

practically begs people to pirate stuff. For example, you buy a blu-ray player on July 1, 2013. You would expect it will play Blu-Ray disks, right? So today you buy a new Blu-Ray disk, put it in the player, and find out it will not play. Why? Because they once again updated the encryption and you must update your nearly new blu-ray player, and even then it might not work because your specific mfgr might not have updated all of their devices for the latest blu-ray encyption. Worse yet, there's no guarantee they will ever update it. Then the studios wonder why people pirate. Or you put in a disk, and it plays, but you are expected to sit through 10 minutes or so of previews and advertisements before you actually get to the movie. So your new blu-ray player is yet another device that needs to be updated via the internet just to keep working. Good grief.

Television. Ok I miss an episode of a popular program, and I know that they also provide it on VOD, but you have to wait several days before it is available. However, is it surprising that people simply pirate it rather than wait for whatever restrictions are placed on VOD?


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
reply to NormanS

Re: Public Flogging

mis appropriating property , willful illegal conversion is that better?
most people know if it walks like a duck... no matter what you call it


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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join:2001-02-14
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1 recommendation

I am just confused.

"Piracy is theft".
"Shoplifting is theft".
"Piracy is not shoplifting".

So which is it?

If piracy is not shoplifting, then piracy can't be theft.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC
Don't bother arguing with him. He likes playing little semantics games. Don't get trapped in the matrix.

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

mis appropriating property , willful illegal conversion is that better?
most people know if it walks like a duck... no matter what you call it

Most people simply call it what it really is... Copying.


Be Good

@wideopenwest.com
reply to your name
Just guessing here... Maybe there are more important issues that require their time.

thedragonmas

join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
kudos:1
reply to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by Jason Levine:

Finally, reduced fines would mean people would be able to fight back. If you are facing the possibility of $150,000 in fines, you're likely to take the $2,000 settlement even if you are innocent.

Who, in the U.S., has ever been criminally prosecuted for digital piracy?

»music.yahoo.com/blogs/amplifier/···ngs.html

$1.5M for 24 songs... and im sure there are more in google.

thedragonmas

join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
kudos:1
reply to old_wiz_60

Re: The entertainment industry..

and that, is exactly why i will never buy a bluray player, ever. there is no law stating they must maintane the firmware for X years. and after my expiriance with cable modems (no, you the user can not update the firmware, the cablecompany must update it, and if they dont wonna, wellll your just outa luck) im not paying for hardware that will be crippled with in 5 years because the company doesnt want to update it.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to thedragonmas

Re: Public Flogging

said by thedragonmas:

$1.5M for 24 songs... and im sure there are more in google.

Sorry ... but I requested information on a criminal prosecution. Would be, "U.S. v. Thomas", or "%State_of% v. Thomas". Your example is a civil tort; "Capitol v. Thomas"; not what I was seeking.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

thedragonmas

join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
kudos:1
my bad, but i still think award limits should be put in place... oh and we forget that it is indeed a civil matter, the ISP's shouldnt be involved, instead there acting like net police at the whim of content makers


aqk

join:2006-07-17
Elgin, QC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to NormanS
OK, then.. how about this:
»brevi.tk/gwtx