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Comments on news posted 2014-02-05 14:17:25: Much has been made of T-Mobile being a thorn in AT&T's side with their recent round of price disruption, AT&T responding with a number of price changes of their own (even if many are short lived or not really useful for most customers). ..


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK

Premium Member

Competition is so evil

It's apparent they have gotten used to the idea of captured markets in an unregulated environment. Well, as they say, greed knows no bounds.

Good job T-mobile!

Mr Guy
@charter.com

Mr Guy

Anon

Re: Competition is so evil

said by KrK:

Good job T-mobile!

Yeah so good THEIR stock is down too. Hope you guy's 401Ks aren't heavily invest in mobile stocks.
applerule
Premium Member
join:2012-12-23
Northeast TN

applerule

Premium Member

Re: Competition is so evil

The entire market has been down since the turn of the year. Even companies that are doing everything right are getting hammered right now.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties to Mr Guy

Premium Member

to Mr Guy
It still pays a nice dividend, thank you. And yes, I own VZ and T stock...
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72 to KrK

Member

to KrK
Greed does know bounds. It's called supply and demand. These markets are saturated, so the games left are M2M which is HUGE and will get them over the hump and taking subs from each other. GB pricing will erode over time, so they will want you to consume more....

And if you research for 5 minutes you can cut your cell bill 50% or more, so if the general population is happy signing up in endless 2 year contracts, then why the issue? And you can get by on 500MB or less if you curb your youtube viewing, look for wifi, or tune your phone to not download crap when on cellular. Do you have to, no because lots of people like facetime and youtube, ESPN, etc. And they use them.

If they are unhappy, there are options. Not a single person left in my family still uses postpaid, we get used phones, and save a bundle. My phone is paid by corporate, and it is EXPENSIVE list (Verizon) but I don't mind because it's not coming out of my pocket and they get a huge discount (like 40%). And Verizon takes care of their business customers like they are gold, and I appreciate that.

In the NE, Verizon is king, AT&T is getting better, and TMO and Sprint are fringe or lagging. They simply do not have the coverage, and Sprint is busy playing catch up. Unlike the others their 3G network is dial-up so there is no fallback...

As for the rest pageplus (Verizon MVNO) is rock solid and inexpensive, even if it is 3G only....
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: Competition is so evil

It's not supply and demand. It's the fact that VZ's customers are brain washed into thinking they are the best and nobody else is like them. When in fact, most people don't realize that companies like PagePlus (now TracFone) and others use the same network. Same network means same experience for the most part. Until consumers actually become smart and are aware they're being raped, they'll still over pay and still complain about it.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: Competition is so evil

PP and TracFone don't get access to the LTE network. For some people that doesn't matter. For others it's worth paying for. I'm in the latter category, though I still have my unlimited plan and so get it cheaper than most.

U/L data: $29.99
U/L tethering: $30
22% discount: ($13.20)
Total: $46.79

With the U/L tethering option I was able to drop my wireline internet connection, so it's a double win.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72

Member

Re: Competition is so evil

How bout the phone portion? And seeing you live in NY tack on another 17% in taxes. I used to have that deal too (phone was like $60), but you also fail to mention you have to buy a phone to upgrade, no subsidies, so add $25 a month to that total if you want to be honest...

As for wireline, that is cool, but how many GB do you use? I clock in over 500GB a month.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: Competition is so evil

There are ways around the "buying a phone at full retail" bit, alternate upgrades and the like, but even without them I don't regard having to get my own device as a burdensome requirement. Plus nobody says that you HAVE to upgrade every 24 months.

Phone portion is on a family share plan, so it's difficult to separate it out.

As far as GB, depends on the month. My wireline (pre-tethering, I only switched to this setup a month ago) average was around 15-20GB, my wireless about 6-10GB. There are months where the wireline will spike up to the three digit range, winters in the Northeast are made for Netflix, but those are still achievable on Verizon LTE. I get peak hour speeds of 5-10mbit/s and off-peak speeds exceeding 30mbit/s, in my apartment with crappy (-100dBm) signal. If I take the phone outside with better signal I can nearly double those speeds.

I've used in excess of 100GB on VZW before I was paying for the 4G Hotspot feature and never heard a peep out of them, so I doubt they'll gripe if I reach similar totals while paying for the feature.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to elefante72

Premium Member

to elefante72
The problem with the "Supply and Demand" argument is that it presumes that there is no barriers to entry on the Supply side. Quite literally.... "Unhappy with your service? Prices too high? Well tomorrow morning, I'll start my own Wireless company to compete against them!"

Unfortunately, in many industries, Wireless being one of them, this model doesn't work. It works great for lemonade stands but not for Wireless.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer

Premium Member

Re: Competition is so evil

That's the problem with the 'free market'... to make it work properly, you kinda have to ignore stuff like physics.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

1 edit

IPPlanMan

Member

You just go on believing that Verizon...

T-Mobile must be making them nervous.
Wonder how that churn figure's looking.

The longer T-Mobile goes with paying off ETF's, the more hurt there will be.

Mr Guy
@charter.com

1 recommendation

Mr Guy

Anon

Re: You just go on believing that Verizon...

said by IPPlanMan:

T-Mobile must be making them nervous.
Wonder how that churn figure's looking.

Just like it has been for a long time. Around 1% which is the lowest of the 4.

CCNnorthcali
join:2004-03-07
San Francisco, CA

1 recommendation

CCNnorthcali

Member

Re: You just go on believing that Verizon...

That's what it was prior to T-mobile paying ETFs. I think IPPPlanMan was saying that it would be interesting to know what it's looked like since then. Those numbers aren't out yet.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: You just go on believing that Verizon...

When did T-mobile start its competitive attempts?
said by VZ 4Q13 Report :

Retail postpaid churn of 0.96% in 4Q ’13

Churn was 0.95% in 4Q12, 0.94% in 4Q11, and 1.01% in 4Q10. I'd say churn is fairly flat.
jagged
join:2003-07-01
Boynton Beach, FL

1 recommendation

jagged

Member

Re: You just go on believing that Verizon...

T-mobile didn't start offering ETF buyouts until January 6th 2014 so we dont know what if any effect there is yet

Still 0.95% out of 103,000,000 is 978,500

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: You just go on believing that Verizon...

Exactly. Wonder when those numbers will come out.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: You just go on believing that Verizon...

1Q14?
openbox9

openbox9 to jagged

Premium Member

to jagged
Churn has been consistent with VZW for a while now. T-mobile started competing before 6 Jan 2014.
mob (banned)
On the next level..
join:2000-10-07
San Jose, CA

2 recommendations

mob (banned)

Member

Investors are stupid

They are addicts of money. They are golden cluckers, no better than a crackhead blowing a someone in the alley for a $5 rock. They have managed to "improve" so many companies into bankruptcy and failure that it has literally turned America into a future 3rd world country.

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA

1 recommendation

Mike

Mod

Re: Investors are stupid

Investors help build then crap all over a company for those exact same reasons you listed.
mob (banned)
On the next level..
join:2000-10-07
San Jose, CA

3 recommendations

mob (banned)

Member

Re: Investors are stupid

said by Mike:

Investors help build then crap all over a company for those exact same reasons you listed.

They would rather have $5.01 RIGHT F#*)!^$ NOW than make $50 in an hour, or $500 in a day, or $5000 in a month.

Money isn't bad - but if that is your sole purpose, customers or business model be damned, it catches up in the end and slays the goose that lays golden eggs.
applerule
Premium Member
join:2012-12-23
Northeast TN
(Software) pfSense
ARRIS SB6183
Asus RT-N66

applerule

Premium Member

Re: Investors are stupid

I'm all about cheaper prices, but right now VZ has no real reason to lower prices. TMO is not taking enough VZ subscribers to make an impact, they are posting good subscriber numbers, coverage, etc. Why change when you are making money hand over fist with no end in sight?
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

Re: Investors are stupid

It depends on how VZ uses the money from being able to hold the line on prices. If they blow it then they will be in trouble when they have to cut the price. If they use the money to expand and upgrade the network then they may get away with charging a premium.

AT&T has been closing the holes in their network so they could start taking customers from other networks. T-mobile could get in trouble by spending money on getting customers instead of improving their network. They could lose a lot of the new customers if they become disappointed with the performance of T-mobile like they did with AT&T. I doubt this will happen but AT&T could lower their price and burn T-mobile with a better network and just slightly higher prices.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Investors are stupid

said by WhatNow:

If they use the money to expand and upgrade the network then they may get away with charging a premium.

They have so far and that's why VZ hasn't been in a huge rush like T has been. T is getting better, but it's late to the game. TMUS' only competition is price. Its network coverage is sad in comparison to the big two.
said by WhatNow:

I doubt this will happen but AT&T could lower their price and burn T-mobile with a better network and just slightly higher prices.

I suggested a year or two ago that if/when the sleeping giants awake, they'll be unstoppable.
Expand your moderator at work

Lone Wolf
Retired
Premium Member
join:2001-12-30
USA

Lone Wolf to mob

Premium Member

to mob

Re: Investors are stupid

Guess I'll just take my stupid IRA and put it in the bank and get a whopping 1% on my hard earned money instead of doubling it every 5 years or so.

Duh.

wizardry
@ohio-state.edu

wizardry

Anon

Title

It would be clearer if "Verizon Wireless" was named to specify that this is about wireless service, not landline/DSL/FiOS.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: Title

This site see's no difference between the two, even though their is greatly.
GH
join:2006-01-01
Gladwin, MI

GH

Member

new tower in my area :-)

I've had Verizon for the last 4 years since they are currently the only service provider that works near my house. There is a new tower being stood up within 1 mile of my residence next spring. I've read that art, sprint and Verizon will all share that tower.

While I am grateful that the Verizon service has been available once the new towers go up I will be researching for similar service at a better price. The current $200 monthly price tag for 10GB of data on two smart phones is getting old. Hopefully Verizon will recognize that they have to compete at least a little as the competitors expand their networks.
mob (banned)
On the next level..
join:2000-10-07
San Jose, CA

mob (banned)

Member

Re: new tower in my area :-)

No, they don't have to compete. They have bought the regulators out by the pound. The only way your bill will go is up, and you have no recourse, and no where to go. You're just a chicken to be plucked, and the fox is guarding the henhouse.

Welcome to 'Murica.

•••
rmdir
join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL

1 edit

1 recommendation

rmdir

Member

They need an attitude adjustment

I am still leaning towards dropping them for TMo, not because of service or price but because of their arrogant attitude. I am a grandfathered unlimited data customer, and get a nice corporate discount, but even at $59 per month StraightTalk would be cheaper. I normally use less than the 2.5 gig cap ST imposes. Verizon doesn't suck, but their attitude and CFO Fran ShamWow both do.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

TBBroadband

Member

Re: They need an attitude adjustment

ST is $45 per month before any local taxes are added for unlimited calling/data.

Eddy120876
join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY

Eddy120876

Member

Re: They need an attitude adjustment

for me when I had ST was 45+4.59=50 =( i switch to Metro 4G for 40 dollar period plan. Happy as heck.

robbyglack
@comcastbusiness.net

1 recommendation

robbyglack

Anon

verizon is perceived as the best network

the public certainly considers Verizon the number 1 network for postpaid subscription but choose t-mobile or sprint to save money. at&t has less of a network quality reputation. is Verizon does join in on the price war game they could see a huge influx of customers from sprint and t-mobile who are both mostly value pricing options. if they start offering LTE SIM's for prepaid they would grab even more from t-mo and sprint.

••••••••

anonomeX
@comcast.net

1 recommendation

anonomeX

Anon

Their "network is just that good"

I've been with T-Mobile for a few years now, and I've never had a dropped call, or any particular problem with call quality. In fact, the call quality at my house is crystal clear. (Yeah, Verizon has coverage in more places--big whoop. Coverage is coverage. If you've got it, then you've got it. It doesn't really matter how much coverage someone else has somewhere else.)

FreeBSDuser
join:2013-05-15
Somers, NY

FreeBSDuser

Member

Verizon sucks

I hate Verizon, even though I don't have any of their services. Verizon really wants to steal money. They are slowing down pipes to other websites to monetize from the content providers if they want fast service to Verizon customers, and they are putting ads on cell phones to monetize and distract the customer. And on top of this they are getting worried about T-Mobile doing the right things.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Verizon sucks

Silly company trying to make money.
said by FreeBSDuser:

They are slowing down pipes to other websites to monetize from the content providers if they want fast service to Verizon customers

Huh?
ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO

ender7074

Member

They better be worried

My wife and I just left Verizon Wireless for T-Mobile. Yah, the coverage isnt as good but I really couldnt care less about 99.9% of the coverage area as I will never be there. Our bill will have dropped by almost 100 bucks a month (after phones are paid off) and I actually get better service with the wifi calling than I ever did with VZW cellular service. Combine that with all the billing issues and complete incompetence that the store reps and phone reps display and we ran running on the first weekend that they offered the ETF payback. So far, we've been very happy with T-Mobile. I'd bet that VZW will start to see more churn when people realize that their bill can be cut in half.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

spill the beans..

obviously more info is being learned about how much it actually costs the carriers to deliver data services over cellular 4g/lte and are learning that (YOU) the customers are being screwed over by the big carriers. this is leading to a destruction of demand for the ultra expensive 4g/lte even though only 2 duopoly carriers have the majority of the bandwidth and the majority of the strategically placed cellular sites across the country.

meanwhile, hold onto your wallets.. wire line services seem to only be INCRE$ING in price... you just can't win (twice) evil corporations won't let you..

travoloso
@160.131.112.x

travoloso

Anon

Changing

I tweeted about looking for Verizon alternatives a few weeks ago. Verizon's Social Media team asked me why and I explained it was primarily because of cost. I can not justify paying 133 each month when there are alternatives that work for me in my area. I even posted a picture of a friend's LTE AT&T go-phone connection (3 times that of my Verizon connection) the reps stopped responding. If they offered a plan that matches my data usage more closely and would save me money I would stay but as of now when my contract ends in March I'm looking to BYOD to AT&T's Go-phone service. Each time Verizon offers to change me to a lower plan the plan they suggest ... the ones from the website.. save a paltry $10 dollars but reduces my data to the point where I would have overage each month. I'm currently on a double data plan from 2012.
decifal7
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN

decifal7

Member

I

I do not have to have unlimited.. I can understand why they would not want to offer unlimited with all the inconsiderate people out there sharing files 24/7 for whatever reason.. But for the freaking CAR PAYMENT of a phone bill we pay, i would greatly love to actually be able to watch more than a couple videos a month without concern of overages at such extreme values... I rather them not have a monthly data plan fee and just charge me .50 cents per gigabyte or something... They still make a damn good profit, and we will be happier...

But F it, lets make a great service and make it unusable due to income limitations
63475675 (banned)
join:2014-01-06

63475675 (banned)

Member

Killing the goose that laid the Golden Egg....

obviously more info is being learned about how much it actually costs the carriers to deliver data services over cellular 4g/lte and are learning that (YOU) the customers are being screwed over by the big carriers. this is leading to a destruction of demand for the ultra expensive 4g/lte even though only 2 duopoly carriers have the majority of the bandwidth and the majority of the strategically placed cellular sites across the country.

meanwhile, hold onto your wallets.. wire line services seem to only be INCRE$ING in price... you just can't win (twice) evil corporations won't let you


That is what big business seems set on doing today, especially in Murica!

Short term planning and short term profits is all they care about, the shareholders and the executives have no concern for the long term viability and health of the companies, and yes, that is killing business in America.

•••••••

DeadSurvivor
Actor (The Asylum / Mill Creek Ent.)
Premium Member
join:2013-09-03
Tampa, FL

DeadSurvivor

Premium Member

"When Pigs Fly ..."

I hear "Pigs Will Fly" before Verizon lowers their prices to compete. Some of their pricing is what's kept me at my Cable Company thus far.

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

cork1958

Premium Member

Makes me want to vomit!

Both AT&T and Verizon are such disgusting companies I will NEVER use either of them!

Luckily for me, AT&T isn't even available in my area and, thankfully also, unlike cable, I DO have choices in cell providers and I choose NOT to use Verizon!

Had Verizon before and they were the worst and most expensive of the 4 different carriers I've used!
jagged
join:2003-07-01
Boynton Beach, FL

jagged

Member

Verizon is so Awesome

In Miami my Verizon LTE is at 5-6Mbps... my T-Mobile HSPA+ 42 tests around 11Mbps during the day

The only redeeming thing about Verizon is the low-band spectrum. Though some in my family are paying for Verizon 4G and getting 3G because the signal is so weak signal even though the map says all is good.
blushrts
join:2001-01-06
New Cumberland, PA

blushrts

Member

Where is the picture of that Moffet guy?

He seems to comment that anything that isn't shaking down customers for the last bit of change in their pocket is horrible. He would be claiming Verizon should be raising rates.