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Comments on news posted 2014-02-18 15:01:21: We've already noted how bandwidth caps likely won't fare very well with the arrival of 4K video, even with the help of next-generation compression codecs. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Maybe it's me, but 1080 seems fine

So far 1080P seems fine to me. I'm uncertain if 4K is necessary for sets below 100".
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.

norm

join:2012-10-18
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1

Can't get 1080p let alone 4k

This won't matter as the ISPs with caps can't reach 1080p let alone 4k.

ptbarnett

join:2002-09-30
Lewisville, TX
reply to pandora

Re: Maybe it's me, but 1080 seems fine

said by pandora:

So far 1080P seems fine to me. I'm uncertain if 4K is necessary for sets below 100".

I've seen an 84' 4K set - the Sony XBR-84X900. The resolution definitely made a difference, and you didn't have to sit so far away that the gaps between the pixels disappeared. It was almost like sitting in an IMAX theater.

You could also walk up to it and examine a small area. I was surprised at the level of detail. Of course, after the program material is compressed to a reasonable bandwidth, I don't know how much of that detail would be lost.

ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable
·ooma
·VOIPO
·Verizon Broadban..

4 recommendations

reply to pandora
said by pandora:

So far 1080P seems fine to me. I'm uncertain if 4K is necessary for sets below 100".

You're not wrong.

There's lots of documentation out there about the human eye and on why 4k is a waste on small screens.

But, TV companies need to sell products and that 2 year old 1080p set on your wall is so 10 years ago and they have shareholders to put up with.

So, 4k is the next big thing. Hopefully, it'll work out about as well as 3D. Those fanboys are still trying to believe that technology is still alive.

Brim77

join:2012-03-16
Lansing, MI

8 recommendations

Keep discouraging Google fiber.

Your 50/mbs connection with a 250 gb cap through Charter for $50/month is good enough. Pay your $10 overages and move along, sheeple.


hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
kudos:1

1 recommendation

4k streaming...

its dead unless caps are gone ( not likely) or some kind of compression is needed...

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to pandora

Re: Maybe it's me, but 1080 seems fine

I think 4k starts to have benefits on TV's around 70" to 80" large. Most people I know have 40" to 60" sets. The tube TV to Flatscreen revolution was big and most people bought new HD sets. I'm not sure they'll get that again. IE will people go and buy new bigass 80" TV's in huge numbers. I doubt it.

To my eyes on my 42 inch 1080p TV. Netflix Super HD still doesn't look as good as bluray. Cable HD doesnt either (just like DVD looks a helluva lot better than SD cable or SD netflix).

Since I'm doubting that 4k will catch on anytime soon (since I don't think people are going to buy 80" TV's in droves) maybe more focus on offering bluray quality 1080p feeds through netflix and cable before adopting highly compressed 4k streams.

BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Integra Telecom

1080p

I'll be honest, I've been rather impressed with the 1080p quality with streaming House of Cards. I've got mine on a 106" screen streaming through a TiVo Roamio, and it's hard to imagine higher quality. Netflix has come a long way from their original streaming years back.

Now it seems rather close to blu-ray quality, with the exception of compression. It still looks pretty close. I'd love to just see some higher bitrates for 1080p to make it look that much better. Already crisp as-is. 4k won't be as useful until 4k sets come down in cost, projectors at that resolution are at least $4-5k, probably more like $20k for something well-rounded.

shmerl

join:2013-10-21

3 edits

Caps and codecs

Which landline ISPs currently enforce data caps? For example Verizon DSL doesn't have any as far as I know. Neither is their fiber optic network. Amongst coax providers, Optimum doesn't have caps. I'm not sure about others.

About codecs - I hope H.265 won't become dominant. VP9 is a better alternative, but it's hindered by legal attacks of the likes of Nokia and Co. Hopefully Daala will fare better.


RRedline
Rated R
Premium
join:2002-05-15
Attleboro, MA

1 recommendation

reply to pandora

Re: Maybe it's me, but 1080 seems fine

1080p really is "good enough" for 99% of people's setups. I sit about 12 feet from a 65" screen, and 1080p looks amazing. I doubt that 4K is going to offer much of an improved viewing experience over 1080p unless you are sitting very close to a very large screen (which I don't see the point of).
--
One nation, under Zod!


IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

No worries on Comcast

Netflix quality on Comcast is already such crap, 4K seems like an impossibility.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

No News Here, Move Along...

Netflix isn't streaming 4K to people watching on viewing devices with 1080p resolution (or less). This is much ado about nothing... until (enough) people ACTUALLY have 4K viewing devices.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬

DigitalManny

join:2014-01-08
Glendale, CA

Netflix never streams in HD or Super HD what is the point of 4K?

Really what is the point? Netflix will always blame ISP and ISP will always blame Netflix, a better idea would be Netflix bringing back the old deal DVD+Streaming $9.99 or DVD/Blu-Ray+Streaming $11.99 that bandwidth would be saved.

Happydude32
Premium
join:2005-07-16
kudos:1
reply to ke4pym

Re: Maybe it's me, but 1080 seems fine

said by ke4pym:

said by pandora:

So far 1080P seems fine to me. I'm uncertain if 4K is necessary for sets below 100".

You're not wrong.

There's lots of documentation out there about the human eye and on why 4k is a waste on small screens.

But, TV companies need to sell products and that 2 year old 1080p set on your wall is so 10 years ago and they have shareholders to put up with.

So, 4k is the next big thing. Hopefully, it'll work out about as well as 3D. Those fanboys are still trying to believe that technology is still alive.

Just because you either cannot afford new technology or have no interest in it, why do you hope it fails? I’ve never understand the jackasses on this site, you know a site dedicated to technology, who want certain technology to fail because they find something about it they don’t like. I purchased my 3DTV in December of 2010 and have had a lot of enjoyment out of 3D. My liking, watching and supporting 3D content has no negative impact on you, so why should you care? Time Warner in my area added Starz 3D On Demand a month or two ago, and I finally got around to watching Wreck It Ralph in 3D this past weekend and I really enjoyed it.

In the Fall I plan on purchasing a 4KTV.
--
Phil Robertson/Ted Nugent 2016
4/17/13 - A Beautiful Day For Freedom, Thank You United States Senate!
Message to Anti-Gun Liberals: HA HA! - Hussein Obama 0, American Public 1
Repeal 0bamacare Now!/Marriage = Man + Woman

ghosti

join:2014-02-01
united state
reply to shmerl

Re: Caps and codecs

Mediacom, from 150gb on lowest tier to 1tb on highest (new subscribers). Most common tier, 15/1 is 250 GB.


anonomeX

@comcast.net

If you have this setup:

something like Google Fiber (unrestricted, uncapped connection) and a 4K TV (and other supporting h/w), then knock yourself out. For anything else... what are you? ...nuts? What do you think you're going to see with 4K that you won't see with 1080p anyway? Try the medium quality Netflix setting... see if you notice any real difference after awhile (yes, it is actually different, but your eyes--brain, actually--have this natural tendency to "even things out", so unless you have this fetish about seeing everyone's tiniest little imperfections on screen...). Anyway, it's only a TV show, not remote surgery (so if you think 1080p isn't good enough for 99.9% of everything you might watch on your TV, then I pretty much think you deserve to be screwed by your ISP [at least until 4K is "standard"]).

rick0204

join:2009-05-20
North Bergen, NJ
reply to DigitalManny

Re: Netflix never streams in HD or Super HD what is the point of 4K?

A big advantage for Netflix streaming is for your ISP to participate in the Open Connect program. I have Cablevision and I am able to watch Netflix Super HD at any time of the day or night with excellent quality. I was binge watching "House of Cards" this weekend, much of it during Prime Time. Excellent streaming and an excellent show!


Ytsejamer1

join:2008-01-18
Somersworth, NH

Doesn't make sense to me

While I'm a huge fan of Netflix and more specifically, House of Cards...I'm not sure of why Netflix would be pushing a format that requires even more bandwidth at a time providers are presumably choking down on them. It's like they're going in two different directions and the only people getting hurt are the consumers.

While it's always nice to have an option lto do so...say, on the account to enable 4K streaming, I'm not sure why Netflix is really trying to push that envelope at least right now.

serge87

join:2009-11-29
reply to shmerl

Re: Caps and codecs

said by shmerl:

Neither is their fiber optic network.

FIOS = 10TB soft limit


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to BlueC

Re: 1080p

said by BlueC:

I'll be honest, I've been rather impressed with the 1080p quality with streaming House of Cards. I've got mine on a 106" screen streaming through a TiVo Roamio, and it's hard to imagine higher quality. Netflix has come a long way from their original streaming years back.

Now it seems rather close to blu-ray quality, with the exception of compression. It still looks pretty close. I'd love to just see some higher bitrates for 1080p to make it look that much better. Already crisp as-is. 4k won't be as useful until 4k sets come down in cost, projectors at that resolution are at least $4-5k, probably more like $20k for something well-rounded.

Wait until the BD set comes out for Season 2. Rent it when it does and you will see a huge difference between the SuperHD stream and the BD. At least that was the case with Season 1 for me.

My third time watching Season 1 I rented the BD from Netflix. I was amazed at how good it looked. I previously thought the House of Cards SuperHD streams looked good. But the House of Cards BD put those to shame.


CodeeCB
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Minneapolis, MN
reply to ke4pym

Re: Maybe it's me, but 1080 seems fine

said by ke4pym:

said by pandora:

So far 1080P seems fine to me. I'm uncertain if 4K is necessary for sets below 100".

You're not wrong.

There's lots of documentation out there about the human eye and on why 4k is a waste on small screens.

But, TV companies need to sell products and that 2 year old 1080p set on your wall is so 10 years ago and they have shareholders to put up with.

So, 4k is the next big thing. Hopefully, it'll work out about as well as 3D. Those fanboys are still trying to believe that technology is still alive.

And yet literally every single person that I have shown 4k content on my 65" samsung 4K says it looks much better then standard 1080p. Granted good sourced content (blu-ray) does look better on a 4K TV as well (in my and ~15 or so friends opinion atleast). Unless you are blind as a mole true 4k content looks better then its 1080p counterpart if you are in a normal viewing distance from the TV. My seating area is around 5' from a 65" 4k which is within the guidelines. Anyone that can't tell a difference in 4k is either lying or has horrible vision to begin with.

That being said, streaming 4k? I dont know about that. Perhaps they should up the quality on their standard 1080p/SuperHD first.


RockCake
Premium
join:2005-07-12
Woodbridge, VA
reply to IPPlanMan

Re: No worries on Comcast

It's crap on Verizon FIOS too, after 6pm it's practically unwatchable.

Acarney

join:2003-01-27
Richland, WA

Bump up 1080p

I know they just recently opened up Super HD nationwide but I seriously would like a bump on the 1080p streams again rather then (or in addition) to them building out their 3D offerings and 4k.

~6mbps is decent, but it's not near Bluray. It's better then TV most the time (no macro blocking) but sometimes even OnDemand looks better when it comes to gradients and banding. House of Cards actually shows a lot of banding at different times and it drives me insane. I know everyone doesn't have 100mbits like me, but for those of us that DO, I would LOVE a 12mbits or better yet ~20mbit stream. Maybe they also need to tweak the way their encoding works.

I'm not sure if studios master a special digital copy to them or not, but I would love if they got on that kind of bandwagon and we had a from source and encoded once system rather then encoded to bluray and then encoded to Netflix.

I would even be game for separate pricing, like only offer the 20mbit stream for those that have the Blu-ray Disc option. Adoption of disc + streaming would go up, and if most people are like me, they get maybe two or three bluray's a month and stream the rest.

BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Integra Telecom
reply to aaronwt

Re: 1080p

I'll have to check that out. I don't doubt there's a noticeable difference, but I have a feeling HoC looks so good based on how they filmed it. Perhaps it's already 4k content down-sampled to 1080p? It would make sense considering Netflix's move to start streaming 4k, they would obviously prep their own series for it.

None the less, I still think their SuperHD streams are decent for what they are. I'm not much a fan of Amazon's HD streaming (unless they have updated it recently), it seems far worse compared to SuperHD streams on Netflix.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to Ytsejamer1

Re: Doesn't make sense to me

said by Ytsejamer1:

I'm not sure of why Netflix would be pushing a format that requires even more bandwidth at a time providers are presumably choking down on them.

Because they won the OpenConnect / Name & Shame campaign, hands down. Hate is the simplest emotion to reach, and the MSM danced to Reed's fiddle, with months of cable-bashing.

There is no reason to believe, in light of the general public opposition to the Comcast merger, that pushing the 4K envelope won't further the cause, as $8/month customers grouse that their $5K TVs won't display one show in 4K for 13 episodes.


Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to norm

Re: Can't get 1080p let alone 4k

same here. i had to downshift my roku3 to watch netflix as 720p without skips on my docsis3 2.0mb/s ISP (even while doing little else off my router). hopefully once TWCable implements the MAXX 3x upgrade here in NYC by 2015, I'll finally be able to watch things at 1080p without hickups.

i may have to downshift to 480p should TWCable adopt Comcast's 300gb/month usage caps.


Mr Guy

@charter.com

devil's advocate

If 4K uses 15 GB a hour and a family of 4 watches 300 hours of 4K video that's that 4.5 TB a month. Is that reasonable? And that's not counting any other uses they use their internet for.


Mr Guy

@charter.com
reply to Ytsejamer1

Re: Doesn't make sense to me

You do realize that 4K would be an OPTION not mandatory.


Mr Guy

@charter.com
reply to DigitalManny

Re: Netflix never streams in HD or Super HD what is the point of 4K?

said by DigitalManny:

Really what is the point? Netflix will always blame ISP and ISP will always blame Netflix, a better idea would be Netflix bringing back the old deal DVD+Streaming $9.99 or DVD/Blu-Ray+Streaming $11.99 that bandwidth would be saved.

Not really. The stuff people watch on DVDs wouldn't be the same things they watch on streaming. Also no one rents DVDs anymore. Those that do can use RedBox. If you want to rent DVDs from Netflix you still can. They are not lowering the price. In a few years they won't even have DVDs rentals.


Mr Guy

@charter.com
reply to RockCake

Re: No worries on Comcast

said by RockCake:

It's crap on Verizon FIOS too, after 6pm it's practically unwatchable.

Well that would be when most people are on Netflix. People don't get bandwidth is shared.