dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2014-02-20 09:37:16: As we've been discussing, there's a lot of claims being made about why exactly Netflix streaming is suffering for customers of major ISPs like Comcast, Verizon and AT&T, but there hasn't been much hard data. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next
Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL

Zoder

Member

Ask Comcast at merger hearing

A Senator or Congressman should ask the Comcast rep at the hearing over the merger whether this is taking place. The person will be under oath so it's the best chance right now to get a truthful answer about what's going on.
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN
Ubee E31U2V1
(Software) pfSense
Netgear WNR3500L

5 recommendations

Chubbysumo

Member

I have said this before here

ISPs have always let their peering link degrade on services that do not benefit them, meaning, its not the same legal definition, but the same end effect, which means a degraded experience for the end user, who has already paid for the traffic from netflix to come to them.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

1 recommendation

telcodad

MVM

The Peering Wars Continue

There was also an article on the Light Reading site yesterday about the Netflix/Cogent/ISP peering issues:

The Great Peering War Rages Again
By Carol Wilson, Light Reading - February 19, 2014
»www.lightreading.com/cab ··· d/707807

YukonHawk
join:2001-01-07
Patterson, NY

YukonHawk to Chubbysumo

Member

to Chubbysumo

Re: I have said this before here

It really amazes how childish this whole situation is. Message to cablecos and telcos: GROW UP!!!!!!

norm
join:2012-10-18
Pittsburgh, PA

norm

Member

It's not just Cogent

Level 3, NTT, XO, Zayo, CenturyLink, and I'm sure more. I routinely see congestion with those Tier 1 providers between them and Verizon that I don't see on many other providers.

Netflix and Amazon Instant are threats to Verizon's television and Redbox Instant business model.

camper
just visiting this planet
Premium Member
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT

camper

Premium Member

Distribute traffic more efficiently?

"... Executives at major broadband providers, meanwhile, privately blame the traffic jam on Netflix's refusal to distribute its traffic more efficiently...."

I wonder what it means for Netflix to distribute its traffic more efficiently?

I have to wonder if that means that Netflix needs to pay the ISPs to open up the peering bottlenecks?

EliteData
EliteData
Premium Member
join:2003-07-06
Philippines

EliteData to Zoder

Premium Member

to Zoder

Re: Ask Comcast at merger hearing

said by Zoder:

A Senator or Congressman should ask the Comcast rep at the hearing over the merger whether this is taking place. The person will be under oath so it's the best chance right now to get a truthful answer about what's going on.

"i neither confirm nor deny the allegations.."
"i reserve the right to plead the fifth..."
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

silbaco to norm

Premium Member

to norm

Re: It's not just Cogent

But Hulu is an even bigger threat to Verizon TV and it works perfectly fine for most people. Amazon instant works perfectly fine for most people as well.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

1 recommendation

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

This is why Comcast needs to be broken up

Comcast should be broken up, not allowed to get bigger. I am opposed to the merger but if it goes through I'll be able to keep my E-mail addresses if I move up to Maine.

Their responsibility for internet should begin at the ground block and end at the CMTS. That's it.

If Judge Harold Greene was still alive, the Comcast-Time Warner merger would not happen. He would break up Comcast like he broke up Ma' Bell.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

1 edit

1 recommendation

IPPlanMan

Member

File an FCC Complaint against Comcast

Doesn't surprise me at all... Just another service Comcast doesn't want you to use as you cut the cord.

Remember when Comcast originally denied throttling P2P traffic?:
»www.wired.com/threatleve ··· disclos/

The FCC found and proved otherwise.

Now Comcast is denying responsibility for the crap quality of Netflix streaming.

Let the FCC know about this.

Complaint Procedure: »www.fcc.gov/complaints

Select: "Broadband Service and VOIP"

Then select: "Billing, Service, Availability, and Number Portability Issues"

Focus on Item 5, which allows you to provide the details of the issue.

norm
join:2012-10-18
Pittsburgh, PA

norm to silbaco

Member

to silbaco

Re: It's not just Cogent

Look at who owns Hulu. I can't speak for the streaming quality of it though as I'm not interested in watching commercials on a streaming service. In regards to Amazon Instant, I have just as many problems with their streaming as I do with Netflix. It's all relevant to the time of day, too.

I think overall, Netflix is perceived as the biggest threat out of those three video services.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

1 recommendation

tshirt

Premium Member

Is that just the Wall Street Journal speculating?

or is it Karl speculating about the WSJ's speculation based on a rumor heard from a friend of a friend who knows a guy who used to date a girl who might have been related to someone who thinks they know what's going on.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

3 edits

2 recommendations

IPPlanMan to Zoder

Member

to Zoder

Re: Ask Comcast at merger hearing

said by Zoder:

A Senator or Congressman should ask the Comcast rep at the hearing over the merger whether this is taking place. The person will be under oath so it's the best chance right now to get a truthful answer about what's going on.

Congress doesn't get to the truth. It just gives the liar a podium and political cover.
None of these "truths" has made anyone get fired or sanctioned. Why do you think it'd be different with Comcast?

Senator Charles Schumer (NY) recused himself from reviewing the Comcast deal, but only after the revelation that his brother, the lawyer Robert Schumer, worked on the deal.
»dealbook.nytimes.com/201 ··· st-deal/

"Mr. Schumer, who sits on the Senate Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition Policy and Consumer Rights, praised the merger of the country’s two largest cable giants in a statement on his website on Thursday. On Friday, the magazine American Lawyer named Robert Schumer of the law firm Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison its “dealmaker of the week” for his work on the transaction."

Move along, nothing to see here.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· vz5uBd5o


»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· XTOjZPfg


»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· YtTnon90


»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· BYYlReUY


»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· nQzGQJTE
IPPlanMan

IPPlanMan to Chubbysumo

Member

to Chubbysumo

Re: I have said this before here

I completely agree. Comcast knows exactly what it's doing.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

Skippy25 to tshirt

Member

to tshirt

Re: Is that just the Wall Street Journal speculating?

That would still be more truthful and transparent then what you would ever bring to the table in your blind defense of anything corporate.
ptb42
join:2002-09-30
USA

3 recommendations

ptb42

Member

My connection with Verizon is asymmetric....

.... and I download far more than I upload. Why would Verizon be surprised when there's a similar imbalance upstream?

But, what I really can't figure out: Verizon wouldn't have a product to sell if there weren't content providers "out there" on the 'Net, producing data that their customers want to download. If the Internet was still just email, then everyone would still be using dial-up modems.

Verizon specifically promotes higher bandwidth connections, at a higher price, telling customers they can download large amounts of data, faster. Netflix provides HD video that can't be downloaded reliably on slower connections, and Netflix customers are more likely to pay Verizon for a faster connection.

If Verizon is really throttling Netflix, intentionally or by benign neglect, it would seem they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

They want to sell you a service you won't use.
They don't want you downloading data.
They want you to use only a small percentage of your theoretical bandwidth capability per month.
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

1 recommendation

axus to EliteData

Member

to EliteData

Re: Ask Comcast at merger hearing

Actually they'll just answer a different question and keep stalling until the senator's questioning time expires.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Truth!
IPPlanMan

IPPlanMan to tshirt

Member

to tshirt

Re: Is that just the Wall Street Journal speculating?

What are you defending here?
jlivingood had an opportunity to be completely transparent about the Netflix quality issue and wasn't.
»There is a problem with Comcast and Netflix....
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

4 recommendations

rradina to camper

Member

to camper

Re: Distribute traffic more efficiently?

Guessing here but I suspect it means they each want Netflix to pay for a direct link to each of them. They don't want Netflix using competitive means to control their costs by paying ONCE for their bandwidth needs to the cheapest provider and allowing that provider to peer with them. They each want to be paid. They want it one of two ways:

1) Netflix pays each provider (Verizon, ATT, Comcast, etc.) for separate dedicated links

2) Netflix's single-source ISP pays peering fees to each provider (Verizon, ATT, Comcast, etc.) which is then passed on to Netflix. This means Netflix cannot shop for the best connectivity rates to control their costs because the peering fees will act as an equalizer so that #2 is the same cost as #1.

Netflix offers free on-premises equipment in an effort to remove traffic from provider backbones. Of course this assumes the motivation of providers is driven by capacity vs. money. If it's driven by the latter, they don't want Netflix's free equipment. They want Netflix to pay them for access to what they perceive as "their" customers. These thoughts are not new. This is old- school telco thinking.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

2 recommendations

ptrowski to tshirt

Premium Member

to tshirt

Re: Is that just the Wall Street Journal speculating?

said by tshirt:

or is it Karl speculating about the WSJ's speculation based on a rumor heard from a friend of a friend who knows a guy who used to date a girl who might have been related to someone who thinks they know what's going on.

I think Karl is doing a great job at saying it is all speculation, I don't see any thing that he is not. Feel free to show proof if you have it as you are just speculating as well.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to IPPlanMan

Premium Member

to IPPlanMan
The title implies a source with inside ISP knowledge, the actual article says "People familiar with Cogent's and Netflix's thinking say ..."
A}that isn't a Verizon insider saying "I'm the guy those job is to cause the slow down (or anything similar)"
B} Netflix(on the other side) has already made it clear they would like people to believe they are entitled to settlement free transit

The speculation in this article and the underlying WSJ one Karl references provide NO proof, or even new information any better than Gossip on a bus (or forum)
Millenium
join:2013-10-30

Millenium

Member

Consumerist

According to Consumerist, Verizon is in fact letting ports saturate:

»consumerist.com/2014/02/ ··· service/
quote:
Cogent Communications, one of Netflix’s largest bandwidth vendors, said last summer that Verizon had previously opened up new ports to ease or prevent congestion when traffic hit around 50% capacity, but that the telecom giant had recently begun letting some ports reach 100% capacity without acting.
I don't know their sources, but they are speaking as if it were fact.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to ptrowski

Premium Member

to ptrowski

Re: Is that just the Wall Street Journal speculating?

I'm not attacking Karl (he does do a great job) but the response in this thread by people who obviously didn't need to see more then the title( which I do think is misleading) to declare it to be FACT/absolute truth, when in actual FACT it is nothing of the kind.
The business haters still hate all businesses (not sure who they work for, if at all) and the Comcast haters still blame comcast even when the effects are being felt across a number of ISP's and the article is specific to Verizon.
DigitalManny
join:2014-01-08
Glendale, CA

DigitalManny

Member

How about improving the internet morons

If ISPs are so worried about bandwidth than improve the internet yeah I am talking to you Charter Communications.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72 to telcodad

Member

to telcodad

Re: The Peering Wars Continue

All this aggravation over putting a couple of $5k boxes in a Terremark datacenter? It's not like Verizon doesn't own a major backbone either (UUNET).

The only reason can be politics, not reality. And for large corporations, politics are reality, so we think the result is strange.

Redbox Instant, who cares. If Verizon bundled it w/ my FiOS I may look at it. Netflix is just too ubiquitous at this point for me to care, unless they have some unique value prop (and going to a Redbox kiosk) is not one of them for the streaming service. This project will be dead by the end of the year. I hear outerwall wants to deepsix the project. Verizon could turn this into a OTT cable-killing product, but Verizon's software history is D- at best, and follow through even worse. I wouldn't put a byte in their cloud.

Also as of October, Netflix started rating on PRIME (eve) not 24h so the results for NON OpenCDN ISPs naturally go down as there is more CDN/peering contention during that time. This was happening all along, it just wasn't showing up. Also Jan/Feb really sucked weather-wise so I'm sure networks were sucking more wind than usual.

I am also not seeing issues (nor really ever have), so IMHO I don't think it's simply peering issues, it may be network/DNS management in play as well.
elefante72

elefante72 to IPPlanMan

Member

to IPPlanMan

Re: My connection with Verizon is asymmetric....

With no caps. With caps, however the story changes, and network congestion magically disappears

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD

newview to Skippy25

Premium Member

to Skippy25

Re: Is that just the Wall Street Journal speculating?

said by Skippy25:

That would still be more truthful and transparent then what you would ever bring to the table in your blind defense of anything corporate.

... and is beginning to read more and more like a shill for the cable industry.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

said by newview:

...like a shill ...

Ah, yes The shill card... long known as a sign of intelligence and logical argument
page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next