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Comments on news posted 2014-03-17 08:29:39: With a growing number of ISPs playing content nanny (as seen in the "six strikes" copyright warning system), an equally growing number of users are turning to VPNs and proxies to hide their behavior from the ever-watchful eye of their Internet servic.. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

4 edits

2 recommendations

another biased list

ordered by who paid TF the most for placement.
major privacy players like airvpn and ibvpn are
omitted as they would not pay extortion money.

good article pointing out privacy issues, but
anyone believing a USA based VPN like PIA
keeps you safer is only kidding themselves.

about half of the providers listed may require
real information during registration or payment,
which is major privacy issue that article ignores.

any VPN that asks more than an email address
a password you designate, and your public IP
(it gets automatically) is a VPN to be avoided.
as long as they somehow can get your money,
they should not care at all who you really are.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Can you trust these VPN providers?

How do you know you can trust them? What's to stop an MPAA/RIAA from running one and collecting information about your habits? Several people say they will just go with one over seas. Again what's to stop the MPAA/RIAA from setting up shop there. These are about as secure as the lists of IPs that supposedly list MPAA/RIAA computers that are tracking download via torrents.

The only thing these will do is hide what you are downloading but they don't hide the fact that you are downloading stuff form your ISP. You ISP isn't stupid and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the VPN tunnel you're using is being used to download stuff.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


graysonf
Premium,MVM
join:1999-07-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by battleop:

You ISP isn't stupid and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the VPN tunnel you're using is being used to download stuff.

But seeing that you are using a VPN tunnel to download stuff doesn't tell them what that stuff is. Same thing when you use an SSL enabled web browser and surf to » web sites - and who doesn't do that?


Riusaki

join:2000-09-14
Space
reply to battleop
Yes, we get. We should all stop using VPN's so all of our info can be collected. Like you we must sign away our lives and our first borns to our corporate overlords because when we don't they get very angry.

The MPAA/RIAA could log every packet of mine. I don't give a shit. How can they bring a case if they can't even tell what the packet says.

Stop with your moral high ground bullshit. My ISP can't do a fucking thing if they can't read it either.

"Oh no, we just saw an encrypted packet on this guys connection! Why doesn't anyone think of the children!!"
--

Make the homies say HO and the girlies wanna SCREAM!


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
quote:
Stop with your moral high ground bullshit. My ISP can't do a fucking thing if they can't read it either.
Obviously you dont work in the entertainment industry. Moral High ground? How bout just being moral ? , and thats the end of it. IMO, youre no different than someone who goes into a store, and pockets an item. Yea yea yea, its been said a thousand times, copy, borrow, who gives a crap, youre not allowed to break the laws just because there are ways to circumvent them. If you were a mad scientist that creates an "invisible pill" do you have enough morals to avoid robbing a bank, undetected ?


Riusaki

join:2000-09-14
Space

2 recommendations

Yes I don't work for the entertainment industry and I don't give a shit about them either.

Stop caring about people you don't know and don't know you.

I'll keep using my VPN and doing w/e the fudge I want with it. See how easy that was.
--

Make the homies say HO and the girlies wanna SCREAM!
Expand your moderator at work


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
reply to Packeteers

Re: another biased list

Why don't you list 2-3 VPN providers that meet your criteria?
Expand your moderator at work


Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

4 edits
reply to morbo

Re: another biased list

because i would be biased to the half dozen i actually tried

i can confirm mullvad is great for privacy, but they are expensive.
(mullvad also uses a ridiculously higher encryption level than most)
for a single vpn user, ibvpn is just as private and the cheapest.
airvpn costs a bit more, is private, and allows for multiple vpns.

i've used all three for over a month, and did multiple p2p ubuntu
download tests, and all three have great availability and speed,
whether you use their clients or a generic openvpn install.

one provider I have used that made TF's list to be avoided is; TorrentPrivacy
their network performance is terrible, and their vpn client is a resource hog,
but since they only required an email address, i guess they are private
Expand your moderator at work


Riusaki

join:2000-09-14
Space
reply to Anon

Re: Can you trust these VPN providers?

You must be replying to the wrong person.
Expand your moderator at work


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to Riusaki

Re: Can you trust these VPN providers?

"Stop with your moral high ground bullshit. My ISP can't do a fucking thing if they can't read it either."

No morals, just facts. You may think that a VPN hides what you are doing but it really does not, it only hides the content. If you see a connection from an end user to news.giganews.com on port 563 it does not take any real brain power to know what that connection is used for.

A lot of VPN users are using VPNs to circumvent network management or to try and hide their identity when the RIAA/MPAA tolls come knocking. There is no real way to verify if the VPN provider is going to protect you or not. The VPN providers provide a false since of security.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to graysonf
"But seeing that you are using a VPN tunnel to download stuff doesn't tell them what that stuff is"

They don't care about the content they just care about the traffic. Some people think they can use a VPN to circumvent the ISP's traffic management systems. It would be a trivial task to apply traffic management to these connections. I think the ISPs leave that alone for now because it's another can of worms they are not ready to open yet.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


Riusaki

join:2000-09-14
Space
reply to battleop
Assumption is not evidence. Here in the United States you need real proof someone is committing a crime. In your words anyone who happens to drive through a supposed bad neighborhood must be looking to score drugs. Nope, that is the only reason to go or drive through there so arrest anyone who comes through.


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:4

BTGuard

works for me.

Blob


blackice

join:2014-01-02
Pittsfield, MA
reply to battleop

Re: Can you trust these VPN providers?

The Thing is, they wont see news.giganews.com on port 563. Not your ISP, or anyone that might be snooping the connection. (Though the NSA might using there fancy new super computer data centers, but that's just speculation)

When using a VPN all your ISP sees is VPN traffic on port 443, or whatever port the VPN is using. DNS requests are sent through the VPN's DSN server, and all packets routed through the VPN are encrypted.

Sure, someone might be able to see the amount of bandwidth/traffic you are using, but the ONLY thing they will know about that traffic is that it is being routed through an encrypted VPN. And that is not enough evidence to build any court cases on

pkorx8

join:2003-06-19
San Francisco, CA
reply to Packeteers

Re: another biased list

said by Packeteers:

but since they only required an email address, i guess they are private

Question:
How does "only required an email address" imply privacy?
Isn't email the easiest way to track and link someone? If you didn't notice, most of the major free email providers require a lot of identification info to have an email nowadays.

pkorx8

join:2003-06-19
San Francisco, CA

DNS queries

This may be off topic, but I can't seem to get a straight answer....
Is the DNS server giving away your internet queries, even with VPN running?

Some vendors has Smart or Secured DNS services, but is it necessary on top of VPN?

I'm referencing:
www.dnsleaktest.com


dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to blackice

Re: Can you trust these VPN providers?

True. But they will see a connection from the VPN to XXX or whatever they happen to be trying to monitor. So in the end its important that the VPN not give out your info when some third party comes calling on them.
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16


dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to pkorx8

Re: DNS queries

Maybe. Anyone sniffing your packets will know what you are getting from the DNS server if your DNS queries are not encrypted. Then they will know the web servers you visit if you are visiting by domain names.
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16


Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

4 edits
reply to pkorx8

Re: another biased list

i won't argue about which email address providers require what, but you may want to register with a vpn using dispostable.com
and prepay for a year. when the year has elapsed, just make a different dispostable, pay for that, etc.

i used dispostable to prepay a year with my hulu+ and netflix accounts - they have no idea who the i am and i get no spam

fortunately all my aol, hotmail, yahoo and gmail accounts are a decade old,
so when they demand my name and phone number, i just skip through it.

law enforcement can track people though a typical email, but if they already have your
public ip from your vpn login, then why go to the extra effort of tracking your emails


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to Riusaki

Re: Can you trust these VPN providers?

"Assumption is not evidence. Here in the United States you need real proof someone is committing a crime."

Are you randomly replying to posts? I never spoke of the legalities on anything.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to blackice
"The Thing is, they wont see news.giganews.com on port 563."

Do you understand how the internet works? Your ISP can absolutely see that you made a connection to news.giganews.com on port 563. They can't see what happens in that tunnel but they can certainly see the source (your IP) and destination (news.giganews.com) and what port the traffic was sent on.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to dnoyeB
Any network admin is going to know who GigaNews is and what they do. If I saw a maxed out connection talking to news.giganews.com it's not very hard to figure out what it's being used for.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


blackice

join:2014-01-02
Pittsfield, MA

2 recommendations

reply to battleop
If you setup your VPN client correctly, making sure you don't have DNS leaks, and the VPN isn't using a split tunnel, all your ISP will be able to see is encrypted packets with a source (your IP) and destination (VPN server). The VPN server then decrypts these packets, and sends DNS requests to it's DNS servers over it's own ISP. The bits of data that say (destination: news.giganews.com) are encrypted, until they reach the VPN server, by this time they are out of reach of your ISP.

When the data packets need to be sent back to your IP, the VPN server encrypts them, and sends them over the secure tunnel with the source (VPN server) and destination (your IP).

Here is a fancy diagram to better illustrate how a VPN works.
»i.stack.imgur.com/pEA5X.jpg

As dnoyeB sayed, if a government, or other authority wants to tap the connection after then VPN, or the VPN server itself, then your privacy is compromised. That is why it is extremely important to research the privacy policies, reviews, and reputation of a VPN provider before deciding to use them.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
"If you setup your VPN client correctly,"

Why is this so damn hard to understand? If I know the A side (your IP) and the Z side (news.giganews.com) I'm pretty sure I can make a damn good guess as to what you're doing.

As I've said several times they just won't know what content you are downloading but they will know who the tunnel is connected to. From there it's not very difficult to figure out what the tunnel to giganews is being used for.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to Riusaki
"In your words anyone who happens to drive through a supposed bad neighborhood"

No, if you were able to correctly understand my example it's anyone who pulls into the garage of the known crack dealer's house and you close the garage door. We can't see that you were or were not making a drug deal but we can safely assume that something's up.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.