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Comments on news posted 2014-04-28 13:00:18: With Hulu's owners being Comcast NBC, Viacom and Disney, it's probably not particularly surprising to see news that Hulu is now blocking VPN users over "piracy" concerns. ..

pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

It makes sense, they want to know who you are

It makes sense, the companies concerned want a valid real IP address of the accessing user.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: It makes sense, they want to know who you are

They have no right to have my ip address if I dont want to give it to them.
The whole IP address location thing makes no sense anyways. IPs can be from any country and used in any country.
If I want to use a VPN for security then I should have that right.

This again is why we need laws to prevent these companies from limiting the internet.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: It makes sense, they want to know who you are

IF as you say IP's are meaningless, why be concerned?

nekkidtruth
YISMM
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nekkidtruth

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Re: It makes sense, they want to know who you are

said by pandora:

IF as you say IP's are meaningless, why be concerned?

Nowhere did he say "IP's are meaningless".
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN

Chubbysumo to pandora

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to pandora
IPs do not mean anything in todays internet connected world. I can buy an IP and have it appear as if its from anywhere in the world, and with IPv6, it becomes even more irrelevant, as its a per device IP and not a location based IP.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: It makes sense, they want to know who you are

Really, you can purchase a single IP and it will be routed worldwide?

Elbert
@24.131.37.x

Elbert

Anon

From a copyright point of view, it might make sense, but not privacy

I don't see why I, as the end user, have to give up my privacy to use Hulu.

Perhaps I use a VPN 24/7 simply because I choose to make it more difficult for the various trackers (of which there are many) to know my identity. I live in the US, pay my taxes, but don't want the entire world to know who I am.

Why would I want to lower my personal gates just in order to satisfy Hulu?

Answer: I wouldn't. Seems like Hulu needs to get with the program and realize that they don't trump MY needs.

nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium Member
join:2002-05-20
London, ON

3 recommendations

nekkidtruth

Premium Member

Re: From a copyright point of view, it might make sense, but not privacy

I say let them shoot themselves in the foot. They must be confident that there won't be a significant loss of revenue due to this. Something tells me they'll be in for a little bit of a surprise.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72

Member

Re: From a copyright point of view, it might make sense, but not privacy

Its like taking out a blowtorch and burning down the entire forest to kill one mound of ants.

Primitive, nothing less expected from the hammer heads over at Comcast.

So now the VPN companies will adapt and use IPV6 or cycle IP's. In the end they will make more money because it will cause them to spend more time playing whack a mole with the doorknobs that run these media companies.

How many IPV6 addresses are there out there

So again this is what the bully does? And now we want to let Comcast gobble up another bully. This is starting to look like a Marvel Comic...

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: From a copyright point of view, it might make sense, but not privacy

"How many IPV6 addresses are there out there "

Even with a huge number of IPv6 IPs it's still not that difficult for Hulu to block the VPN providers. The VPN providers can't keep going back to ARIN (or their Regional IP Provider) and asking for more IPs just because Hulu is blocking them.

coldmoon
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Fulton, NY

1 recommendation

coldmoon

Premium Member

Total BS...

You have to sign into Hulu to use Hulu so what difference does your current IP have to do with you having a valid account?

This is nothing more than an attempt to track site users by force of policy and not because it has any useful relevance for "privacy"

JMHO
ptb42
join:2002-09-30
USA

ptb42

Member

Re: Total BS...

said by coldmoon:

You have to sign into Hulu to use Hulu so what difference does your current IP have to do with you having a valid account?

Your login is associated with a billing address, but there are obviously ways to create a billing address elsewhere.

Hulu's licensing agreements limit distribution to the United States. It's like the region coding on a DVD: you are only supposed to play it in the region for which it was manufacturers.

Other companies have the rights to distribute some of Hulu's content outside the US. So, Hulu is technically violating those agreements if someone outside the US streams the content.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: Total BS...

unfortunately these agreements and the delays they cause for content leaving the US. Which in some cases can be weeks or months only continues to drive piracy.

I know this is why BBC-Worldwide started releasing Doctor Who the same day globally as it does in the UK. (International dateline permitting.)
The Antihero
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

1 recommendation

The Antihero to ptb42

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to ptb42
It's like the region coding on a DVD: you are only supposed to
quote:
play it in the region for which it was manufacturers.
...which is pretty damn stupid too.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984 to ptb42

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to ptb42
Using an IP address to guess at a users location is really stupid and makes no sense.
ptb42
join:2002-09-30
USA

ptb42

Member

Re: Total BS...

said by r81984:

Using an IP address to guess at a users location is really stupid and makes no sense.

IP geolocation is not perfect, but it's pretty good at determining at least in which country you happen to be.

Try this website: »www.iplocation.net/

It shows your IP geolocation from four different providers. All four are correct for my home IP address. However, only one has the exact correct location for my VPN endpoint. The other three put it in the correct state, but wrong city.

Hulu would work fine. However, Aereo also uses IP geolocation to determine whether you are in the broadcaster's reception area, so I probably couldn't use my VPN to evade their restriction.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to coldmoon

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to coldmoon
Now you're talking.
ptb42
join:2002-09-30
USA

1 recommendation

ptb42

Member

Set up your own VPN.

There are multiple fractional server providers around the US. Set up one, install Ubuntu or your favorite Linux, and then OpenVPN server. Put OpenVPN on your client (Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android), and you are set.

I already have one for a personal email and web server. It's $20/month, with a discount if I pay annually. Excess bandwidth above the generous allowance is 10 cents/gigabyte. You may find a better deal, but I'm happy with my existing provider.

However, I don't use it to stream video. My primary concern is security when I'm traveling and using unsecured WiFi in a hotel

nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium Member
join:2002-05-20
London, ON

nekkidtruth

Premium Member

Re: Set up your own VPN.

Not a very good idea for a service streaming video content.

test24kj54
@199.90.157.x

test24kj54 to ptb42

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to ptb42
Absolutely! I use Digital Ocean, for $5/month, a nice CentOS server with OpenVPN works very nicely!!!

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to ptb42

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Doing it your way will never get whacked. I do something similar where I have firewalls in various Datacenters around the country I can connect to for things like this.
bigboy
join:2000-12-04
Palo Alto, CA

bigboy

Member

Re: Set up your own VPN.

Yep. That's why a Slingbox is still probably the best bet for watching content internationally.
Master5c8
join:2002-09-15
Mansfield, IL

Master5c8 to ptb42

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to ptb42
You can get a VPS for much cheaper than that. I see some VPS for $12 per year that you could use for an OpenVPN endpoint for personal use pretty regularly on »lowendbox.com/ .
ptb42
join:2002-09-30
USA

ptb42

Member

Re: Set up your own VPN.

said by Master5c8:

You can get a VPS for much cheaper than that. I see some VPS for $12 per year that you could use for an OpenVPN endpoint for personal use pretty regularly on »lowendbox.com/ .

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep that URL in mind if I'm ever shopping for another VPS. I see that some of them even offer unlimited bandwidth, which you might need for streaming.
AVonGauss
Premium Member
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

AVonGauss

Premium Member

Blah...

My guess is its all about protecting the stone age concept of "regions".
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Except its not piracy to use a VPN

If someone from the UK got a US VPN to watch US programming it would not be piracy and in fact would not violate any laws at all. There is nothing in copyright law that states you must be in the country where the content originated. The VPN usage is not unauthorized access because the content is posted to the net for free anyway.

nekkidtruth
YISMM
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nekkidtruth

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Re: Except its not piracy to use a VPN

This isn't actually true. It's truly a big grey area. Realistically, you're required to have a U.S. address to be able to view the content legally. In essence, you're committing fraud by signing up for services. Like I said though, it's a grey area.

SysOp
join:2001-04-18
Atlanta, GA

4 edits

SysOp

Member

Re: Except its not piracy to use a VPN

No grey area. Company policy is not the same as usa or uk law. Hulu is prohibited by their agreements, not the consumer.

Not fraud since it's not criminal.

Example: I own the copyright to "sysop the movie". I own the server hosting the movie in the usa. I sell or rent the right for a consumer in the uk to stream or download the movie with or with out a proxy vpn. Consumer paid. Taxes paid. Fees paid. No laws have been broken. Using a proxy vpn did not prevent taxes, fees, royalties etc from being collected or paid. Nothing fraudulent.

The difference is Hulu has agreements with the copyright holders. Hulu is bound by those agreements.

tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

1 recommendation

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: Except its not piracy to use a VPN

However Hulu's terms of service " for US audience" are binding on the HULU purchaser of their service. This allows SAY Hulu UK, to buy UK rights and ONLY serve UK audiences, someday there may be a Hulu China, etc. if there is wide demand. otherwise individual programs MIGHT be liesnced via iTunes amazon etc.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: Except its not piracy to use a VPN

Which makes it interesting when talking the free version of Hulu though. At that point you are just someone visiting a website rather than a customer bound by a purchase agreement.

I think we will start to see more of this VPN lockout though, the entertainment industry is going to focus on their regional lockouts for a few more years before they have no choice but to go global with everything.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

1 edit

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: Except its not piracy to use a VPN

It still has a ToS even if provided "FREE" just like you can offer copy of your book for free doesn't not give away your copyright or make it public domain. All IP is basically the same, You can offer unpaid usage, without losing the right to control HOW it is used. (which could protect you AND your actual ideas it some deliberately misrepresented what you said, or choose to claim credit (with or without direct payment to themselves) for your work.
And yes the IMPORTANT security uses of VPN's are going to be lost to the abuses by "the pirate community".

Pirates are not Robin Hood, they are entirely self-serving, greedy/cheapskates and the legal reactions to their abuse will once again lead to the loss/further eroding of a free and open internet.

•••••••••
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

1 edit

jjeffeory to tshirt

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to tshirt
...and Hulu would be serving their content to a "US audience" or device, which is then in turn being viewed from afar. I see it as fair use.

nekkidtruth
YISMM
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nekkidtruth to SysOp

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Hulu currently only provides service to the U.S. and Japan (Canada is listed in certain places, but being Canadian I still have yet to be able to sign up and receive services without work arounds).

So basically what you're saying doesn't really make sense. In your example, you have given express permission and or licensed your content to another country. Hulu has not done this so you are breaking your terms of service by doing so. In order to break the terms of service, you are fraudulently providing incorrect information. It's certainly not criminal fraud, but it's still dishonest and against the terms of service. The chances that someone would go to court over it are slim to none, but that doesn't make it any less fraudulent.

Side note: Personally, I do this with Netflix and had intended to do so with Hulu. These copyright and licensing issues are absolutely silly.

•••••••

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984 to nekkidtruth

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to nekkidtruth
Its not a grey area.
It is legal.

nekkidtruth
YISMM
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nekkidtruth

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Re: Except its not piracy to use a VPN

If we're going to use the law in it's strictest form, you're right. However, you would still be in breach of the ToS.

The legal aspect actually falls unto Hulu who is licensing the content. It's entirely their responsibility to ensure it isn't viewed outside of the U.S. (or wherever they've purchased licensing). They could technically be held liable. Pretty sure that wouldn't happen though.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to nekkidtruth

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Are you an attorney? Just asking because when you say things like "legally" it means you're giving legal advice to many people, which isn't a good idea unless you're an attorney.

wizardry
@164.107.211.x

wizardry

Anon

Yet another example of big content hobbling tech

There's currently a conflict between the business models of tech companies and content companies. Right now the tech industry is fairly competitive so startup and established companies alike have to deliver innovation or lower prices to keep up. When it comes to video entertainment that means coming up with services that let you watch whenever and wherever you want. Content companies have to be dragged kicking and screaming into licensing their wares out to new mediums. Movies studios tried to suppress TV and owned the theaters. VCRs were decried as the end of Hollywood ... until they became a big revenue source. DVDs were going to cause massive piracy with bit perfect copies. Once again they became a massive commercial success. The industry even equated "downloading" with copyright infringement until they saw the money from iTunes and Netflix.

SONY made incredible products. After they bought Columbia Pictures, they started adding all sorts of anti-features like DRM. In the short term you may be able to squeeze every last dollar out of customers by region-locking and encrypting their memory cards from themselves, but eventually people get tired of artificial limitations and choose not crippled hardware.

I don't mind content companies earning copyright protection. But with the way the FBI pursues copyright infringers you'd think they are an existential threat to the country. Same thing with the Department of Homeland Security shutting down commercially unauthorized Super Bowl streams by seizing domains without due process. If the MPAA has their way, PCs will be nothing more than vending machines with a credit card reader and a webcam so they can charge per viewer.

Kilroy
MVM
join:2002-11-21
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Kilroy

MVM

Re: Yet another example of big content hobbling tech

Actually more like another entity attempting to apply imaginary boundaries to a global network.

nekkidtruth
YISMM
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nekkidtruth

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Re: Yet another example of big content hobbling tech

said by Kilroy:

Actually more like another entity attempting to apply imaginary boundaries to a global network.

Couldn't have said it better myself. There are so many imaginary limitations put on the Internet around the world. Oh well, soon enough they'll all learn that it's far too late to "own" the Internet. Unless you're Google haha.

TuxRaiderPen2
Make America Great Again
join:2009-09-19

TuxRaiderPen2

Member

There is a solution from many VPN providers

There is a solution that many VPN providers provide.

The HUGE DOWNSIDE is, it is NOT SECURE, but does allow you to access these sites. Several make a big splash about it. I am not listing it to see how it plays out, and see if it continues to work. If so, problem solved. I doubt it would take make to fix the loop hole this approach takes..

This is just an escalation in the IP arms race, that will see tech go nuclear on sites like this. I would love to see how much revenue they loose over this, which won't happen..but maybe some one has a good best guess estimate. I am betting that a good 10-15% or more of their traffic is probably of foreign origin from persons PAYING $$$$ (SUCKERS! )

With various actions on one side you knew that an assault against VPN users was inevitable. Here is the first salvo.

Yet another reason I won't be, and have not been using this one. They just don't get it.

JupiterFL
@50.150.166.x

JupiterFL

Anon

Re: There is a solution from many VPN providers

I just cancelled my Hulu account. I've jumped thru a enough hoops to figure out out to stream a 8MB HD stream over a 105MB Comcast connection. Now I have to turn off the VPN to watch Hulu. While I do not have a real choice for internet provider, I do have choices with streaming content providers. I do wonder though, why do I continue to pay for a 105 MB connection that can not even reliably carry a single HD stream without using a VPNing?

CosmicDebri
Still looking for intelligent life
join:2001-09-01
Lake City, FL

CosmicDebri

Member

Don't forget....

They've been intentionally trying to shoot themselves in the foot since Comcast/Disney/et al bought them. They don't want it to work, be convenient, or in any way whatsoever infringe on their self delusions of what they want us to want tv to be.

Hulu stopped being relevant years ago when they sold out to the same behemoths they were trying to disrupt/compete against.
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Solution: leave Hulu.

Hulu is for big TV networks, by big TV networks. NBC, Fox, and ABC all have big stakes in Hulu and not even mentioning their sad lack of content, who wants to fund those chumps?
tabernak4
join:2013-08-10

tabernak4

Member

It only hurts them

Since I live in the US it's no big deal, but all it is going to do is lose them some foreign subscribers. I guess it makes advertisers feel safer, but if they allowed content to be viewed internationally rather than the hodge podge of rights for different countries, they could just target more accurately.

I don't know how well it will work for P2P VPNs like Hola and TOR either. It's sad that at this point in the internet there's still a strong argument for a good ripped disc collection if you want real control.

There's likely shows from the UK, Australia and wherever I'd stream if I could (actually I have done the BBC before).

goalieskates
Premium Member
join:2004-09-12
land of big

goalieskates

Premium Member

Let them.

We don't subscribe to Hulu, and we're not going to with stupidity like this.

Their biggest "piracy concern" should be they don't have anything worth stealing.
bfreese
join:2003-08-18
Wadsworth, IL

1 recommendation

bfreese

Member

Re: Let them.

You aren't missing anything. The painful part of Hulu Plus is paying for the service, yet watching a never ending stream of commercials. Most often, the same commercial over and over.