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Comments on news posted 2014-04-30 16:28:07: For years the FCC has doled out money to telcos to help them expand telecom services, historically then being quite lax in accurately tracking how (or even if) that money was spent. ..

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

1 recommendation

Not to stand up for an ILEC

But I wouldn't want to be in Frontier's position. Verizon took over the old GTE areas and neglected them for over a decade while dumping the money from those areas into the Bell Atlantic areas and wireless.

Frontier can never recover. They may as well turn off the lights and close the doors. Frontier, as far as I'm concerned, is just a shell company that never had any intention of providing a modern service. They were only there to adopt Verizon's bastard-children and then eventually go out of business.

Trimline
Premium
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL

1 recommendation

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

I don't disagree with that thought, however, where did all of that money go? GTE and Verizon should not be left off the hook for an audit.

That's a whole lotta money missing...
Bob61571

join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL
Reviews:
·MTCO Communicati..
·DIRECTV
·Frontier Communi..

2 edits
It must be really be embarrassing to be Frontier!! Other Internet providers keep talking about 1 Gig Fiber, while you complain (to the FCC on the public record) that you can't even provide 10 Mb DSL service. Literally orders of magnitude in difference.

Historically in the IT business, companies that act like this are not going to be around very much longer. However, because they're involved in a heavily regulated business with federal grants divvied out all the time, Frontier will continue to hang around. In a non-regulated IT business, Frontier would be gone quickly.

For a technology company to have such low goals and expectations in 2014, is just painful to watch since I live in Frontier territory. If this were the year 2000, I could accept it.

BTW, FTR only can offer me 3Mbps/768Kbps DSL here. 1 year ago, I asked for faster speeds and the Local engineer said that I was at the highest speed possible here.
ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

Actually FTR offers speeds faster than 10meg on their DSL network:

Product Up to Speed
Lowend 1.5M/384K
Lite 3M/512K
Max 7M/1M
Ultra 12M/1M
Ultimate 24M/1M
Extreme 30M/1M
bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

Since I personally know people that get 768K actual on a 6 mbit line I would qualify your statement with UP TO (never seen)
ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

All speeds on the Internet are up to- the same as with GF- nobody gets the full speed at any time unless its a dedicated leased line with SLA.
MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

And why is that? Because Frontier refuses to spend any money to address their backhaul and other capex issues? lol
ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

It's just not Frontier that uses "up to" other's use it as well. including GF and FiOS.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 edit

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

Removed:
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

If they are truly using WDM-PON (multiple subscribers each have their own wavelength on a single fiber) like their presentations have suggested, then it isn't truly dedicated like the Active Ethernet deployments often used in smaller telcos.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

4 edits

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

Removed: Sorry can't talk anymore than I have!
clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

But you haven't said a thing...?

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

said by clone:

But you haven't said a thing...?

Sorry about that I said plenty, but I had to remove it. I forget sometimes I am on a public forum.
MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC
"Up to" makes it easy to hide behind crappy service in this day and age of oversubscribed Internet service. Peak-hour congestion is Frontier's bread and butter and they seem apathetic about fixing it.

Odyss

@166.147.104.x

-1 recommendation

Maybe if you offer to put your own money to upgrade the connection you would have the high ground. You can offer to have fiber installed, it will only cost you $10 per metre. Its cheap and you know it. Offer to pay for it yourself.

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
said by clone:

But I wouldn't want to be in Frontier's position. Verizon took over the old GTE areas and neglected them for over a decade while dumping the money from those areas into the Bell Atlantic areas and wireless.

Frontier can never recover. They may as well turn off the lights and close the doors. Frontier, as far as I'm concerned, is just a shell company that never had any intention of providing a modern service. They were only there to adopt Verizon's bastard-children and then eventually go out of business.

Verizon upgraded my GTE area to FiOS in 2007. I'm not complaining.
clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

Of course, yes. Verizon did cherrypick the GTE markets that were adjacent to their Bell territories or the ones that actually served urban areas and upgraded them.

The vast, vast majority of the ex-GTE service area was sucked dry and left to rot on 3M DSL if you could actually get it, and it was actually working.
ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

Not true. Ft. Wayne Indy has FiOS and it was a GTE market. not anywhere near Bell.
Bob61571

join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Re: Not to stand up for an ILEC

Ft. Wayne, Indiana area is/was the ONLY GTE/Verizon FiOS site in the Midwest. Oh, except for the Verizon FiOS satellite farm, just west of Bloomington, Illinois(behind the Wal-Mart and Farm&Fleet).

TKJunkMail
Premium
join:2005-12-09
As grandma used to say, "tough titty". No-one forced Frontier to purchase those areas. If they didn't do their due diligence, it's their own damned fault.

Anno

@68.62.236.x

Same place as rest of your tax money...

What do you mean where did all that money go and it's a lot?

Where does any of your Tax money go? I would bet 50-75% of it doesn't go to things you and me think it should go to lol.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

10 Mbps in 10 years?

Reading the FierceTelecom link makes me cringe at the thought of 10Mbps being what's provided in 10 years time. That is already snail speed. In 10 years it will be like dial-up.

Odyss

@166.147.104.x

Re: 10 Mbps in 10 years?

What application are you using that needs so much bandwidth? Phone, surfing, and even HDTV can be delivered by 10 MBps. I'd really like to know the application of the future that consumes more than TV

treichhart

join:2006-12-12

how the hell 10mbps on there dsl line isnt possible?

How the hell 10mbps on there dsl line isnt possible? I know some local independent telco is doing 15mbps on there dsl lines so frontier is trying to get out of doing this but they want to take that connect money for something else like fatten up the CEO's pocket.

You know I am in rural ohio and I am on there dsl they sold me 6mbps but the local co can only do 3mbps but I can only get 1mbps if I am lucky yes I have brand new line installed to my house.

Sarick
It's Only Logical
Premium
join:2003-06-03
USA
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

Re: how the hell 10mbps on there dsl line isnt possible?

Distance lowers the speed.
They could bond more lines to double the speed.
Their bandwidth may be over saturated with users.

I can get about 5mbps on my end but they've provisioned me down to 3.7 to reduce the line from disconnects. For some reason the ADSL2+ isn't connecting. It did once though.
--
Sarick's Dungeon Clipart
FastLearner

join:2003-09-14
Arvada, CO

1 recommendation

That is what is misleading about this article. Frontier never said it was not possible they said "10 Mbps download without any increase in funding or other change in terms is not economically feasible".
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
They are not trying to get out of offering 10 Mbps. They are saying the threshold is too high for the money offered. There is probably a great deal of truth to that. Their network was terribly neglected by Verizon. On top of that, 10 Mbps provides less distance from the DSLAM than slower speeds and will likely require upgrades in infrastructure leading up to the DSLAM. Lines may have to be replaced to deliver higher speeds. That all costs.

treichhart

join:2006-12-12

Re: how the hell 10mbps on there dsl line isnt possible?

they can run fiber to the remote dslam or co to fix this problem they are trying to get out of upgrading the speeds end of story ask centurylink how they offer speeds over 5mbps on old age copper lines.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Re: how the hell 10mbps on there dsl line isnt possible?

The problem they are talking about is on the other side of the DSLAM. The terribly neglected copper that Verizon left frontier that faces the customer needs to be repaired or replaced to do more than 10mb at the longer distances.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.
ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
Frontier does offer speeds higher than 10meg. But in areas where you have all that copper that's basically dust, who is going to pay to replace it?

TKJunkMail
Premium
join:2005-12-09

Re: how the hell 10mbps on there dsl line isnt possible?

Frontier? Keeping the standard at 4Mb because they don't want to spend the money is like putting a retarded kid in an advanced placement class.

Odyss

@166.147.104.x

Re: how the hell 10mbps on there dsl line isnt possible?

I would hope the parents would step up to help that child. It is the government who put the child in the class, the same people you rely on to go after Frontier. Ain't that ironic?

Odyss

@166.147.104.x
I would hope the parents would step up to help that child. It is the government who put the child in the class, the same people you rely on to go after Frontier. Ain't that ironic?
masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM

...really?

After all the crappy purchases from companies with larger pockets that could afford those upgrades, frontier is going to cry foul when they are forced to be competitive?

Zenit

join:2012-05-07
Purcellville, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon Online DSL

1 recommendation

Hey, GTE territory people, dont feel bad

VZ hates its Ex-Bell territory too. Their FIOS deployment vs overall footprint size sucks, VZ has skipped cities and towns, entire counties in their ex-Bell footprint.

VZ is just a horrible company, and there is at the moment nothing we can do about it. They even weaseled out of their Opportunity NJ obligations!

I cant say I feel bad for Frontier...before buying VZs ex-GTE and the 1 Ex-Bell (C&P of W.VA) they could have gone and looked at the condition of the physical plant...but it looks like Frontier bought it on good faith.

VZ Management selling something in good faith! HA!

Here is some typical VZ - this pedestal contains a dedicated fiber circuit + T1 and POTS. Its been open for MONTHS. This is in a non-FIOS area, but ex-Bell. Surprised a VZ incompetent did not swing by and shove a trash bag over it, even though the doors could easily be shut.

This side just shows the fiber:



And on the other you can see some POTS copper just lying on the dirt, wet.



I am sure VZ's CEO Mr. McWireless would say that this dedicated fiber could be replaced with 4G LTE, right?

••••
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

Maybe...

...they should have been paying attention to the market a little more. With the increase in available speeds in urban and suburban areas, they should have known that the standards for rural areas would rise at some point. And, at any rate, they don't have to take the money if they don't want to offer these speeds. They're perfectly free to go it alone.
ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

Re: Maybe...

The thing is - other companies that are taking that same money aren't even giving 10megs the standard price. AT&T's standard in many areas is below 3megs. And they get plenty. But this "standard" of the lowest that is "broadband" should be noted as a suggestion and you're not going to see that speed in many areas and clearly the FCC can't and won't enforce it.
pittpete1

join:2009-06-12
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

1 edit

10Mbps OMG!

Wow, they might have to actually add a few more copper T's to feed their remotes...LOL
What a FN joke. Frontier is @ss backwards. Frontier in my area is being ravaged by the cable company and they sit on their hands with their promised upgrades that never happen. BTW, there is already fiber at the large remote that feeds our area. The techs here do everything in their power to keep customers from leaving. It's really sad in this day and age.

WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5

10 Mbps Too Far

CenturyrLink limits 10 Mbps out to around 5 miles, past that up to 8 miles they offer only 5 Mbps. This is the nature of DSL, regardless who the provider is. So Frontier ids saying they can't afford to drop in more remote DSLAMs and run fiber to them.

"The FCC's own USF budget does not provide adequate funding for a 10 Mbps ubiquitous deployment."
Translation: Century wants money from the government to make a profit for themselves.

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Take it or Leave It

Either meet the standard, or dont play. No one is forcing you Frontier to do this.

TKJunkMail
Premium
join:2005-12-09

Re: Take it or Leave It

But then they won't be able to get all the free money for not doing jack.

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: Take it or Leave It

Damit Jim, stop speaking logically
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

1 recommendation

Moving the goalpost, again and again...

Are Frontier customers even willing to buy the existing service offerings?

Are they willing to pay more for upgraded speeds?

Is Frontier supposed to re-engineer its plant every two years when a NYTimes writer or blogger decides the latest "broadband" definition is inferior?

While I sympathize with Frontier customers, including the newly acquired from VZ, low-density wired broadband is simply going to cost more - a lot more; I submit that our fearless blogger's claims of "historical overcharge" are baseless - but I agree that a public audit would be appropriate.

davidc502

join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1

How much are the execs making?

I guarantee the Executives are making bookoo bucks!
pittpete1

join:2009-06-12

Re: How much are the execs making?

»www1.salary.com/FRONTIER-COMMUNI···ies.html

davidc502

join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TDS

Re: How much are the execs making?

said by pittpete1:

...

Good find... Actually the salaries are a little less than I thought they'd be.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

What cheapskates

10mbps is soooooooo 2005. pfft

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·SureWest Internet

Re: What cheapskates

said by dvd536:

10mbps is soooooooo 2005. pfft

That should be Frontiers' new slogan! Add the tagline: "We are the wayback machine". Expect more? pffft!
SuperSpy

join:2012-06-15
Coldwater, MI

What a joke

Pfft. My line stats indicate I could get nearly the maximum ADSL2 rate of ~20 Mbit. Yet, I'm capped at 3 Mbit because Frontier's aging equipment on the other side of the line. They promised upgrades to faster equipment 2 years ago and I have seen nothing of it.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

4,000 feet

The issue is, the telco has to bring fiber optic cable to a dslam every 4,000 feet from a customer premise... any furher and the copper won't support it.. This is how AT&T got to that magic number of 25megabits using vdsl (barely), however the upstream maxed out at about 3 megabits (now 4?)

My complaint is, if your going to be forced to bring fiber THAT CLOSE to a customer premise... why not go all the way?!? It seems crazy not to.. Your taking a virtually unlimited superhighway of fiber and stripping it down to the equivalent bandwidth of a single AM radio station.

If your going to spend MILLIONS OF DOLLARS of TAXPAYER monies and overrun the cost, at least BUILD THE RIGHT TECHNOLOGY to the premise!!