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Comments on news posted 2014-05-02 12:25:48: In the wake of the government's latest cash-drunk stumbleabout on net neutrality, most consumer advocates are urging the government to solidify FCC authority over broadband by regulating ISPs as common carriers (essentially utilities). ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


mixdup

join:2003-06-28
Calera, AL
Reviews:
·Charter

2 recommendations

Uh

Ok, so the cable goes out the same time the power does because they're on the same pole. Public regulation isn't why the power goes out when the weather is bad, physics is. And aren't most electric utilities private corporations as opposed to government-owned? I know my local utility, which is highly regulated, is a publicly traded corporation, and they make TONS of money. In fact, they essentially have a license to print it. Ask Southern Company if they'd like to be "deregulated" like California or Texas.


biochemistry
Premium
join:2003-05-09
92361

6 recommendations

Trust

Why should anything he says be trusted? He manipulated things into cable's favor which got him the cush job he enjoys today. The only thing that would break down under common carrier status is the maneuvering he did to get his job.
--
isheavenforreal.com


masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM

1 recommendation

Silly argument.

Did he just suggest that the more data that's transmitted along fiber and copper, the more it breaks it down? So they are already fighting the equivalent of potholes caused by moving large data across the network? Then he followed it up with leaky lines flooding the ground with packets? Never heard of a house being eaten by a data sinkhole, but hey he suggested it could happen. Power lines do go out in winter, when MILES of power lines go down in massive winter storms because they are hanging on poles above the ground. Which is kinda odd how alot of ISPs ALREADY use (and have no intention to stop using)those same poles that he's pointing a finger at for causing people to be powerless. In my experience though, power seems to be the most reliable of the utilities, and being that ISPs share the most in common with that utility, it isn't anywear near a bad outlook that he proposes. In fact, I'd be really happy if my ISP was as reliable as my electrical service.


Papageno

join:2011-01-26
Portland, OR

1 recommendation

He's fat and happy

Ugh, I just want to punch this guy in the face just to wipe that smug smirk off it, not to mention his shilling for the cable monopolies and his argument that we should just trust that we're somehow really better off when our fixed line internet is becoming an embarrassment among first world countries.


masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM

2 recommendations

Argument REALLY falls apart...

When you note that the dial-up days of the internet that the regulation he says would ruin the internet is what protected it and prevented it from being crushed by telcos. Also when regulations are protecting consumers and NOT a companie's profits, you shouldn't ask companies what their opinion of regulations are.


YDC

join:2007-11-13
Hewlett, NY

2 recommendations

reply to masterbinky

Re: Silly argument.

If Powell said something, it is obvious. They do not want this to happen as it will slow the gravy train down too much. Government can be controlled as we all know, but it makes it a little harder to get away with some things. It definately slows them down. That goes for anything the government is involved with. I would rather pay the increases to the government than to the new ISPs. Once I was the network engineer for an ISP (not a telco or cable company) until that was taken away from us circa 2002. That was the end of the dot-com bust of 2001. I have since focused on computers, network services and Internet products like web hosting in general. I no longer sell or maintain the pipes. I have done quite well, but I was much happier when I did. You may notice things in technology about to snap, just like in 2001. Twitter makes no money but got a huge IPO out. Others preceded and followed with similar stunts. Wall street has finally caught on and is becoming more cautious now. The next dot-com and probably the first dot-tech bust is near. If we can just get the telcos and cable companies to become dumb carriers once again this all can be fixed. If not, we will ALL be priced out of innovation and the Internet will go the way of the CB radio. If it becomes too expensive or too complicated to have, people will leave it, and then.. Poof! Gone!



MarcoA

@68.87.42.x

1 recommendation

Marc Andreessen says more net neutrality laws are not the answer

Click for full size
Utility?

»gigaom.com/2014/02/24/marc-andre···-answer/


Probitas

@206.248.154.x

3 recommendations

Pretty obvious what should be done.

The questions is, do people have the fortitude to force the change. The incumbents, and their lobbyists in and off the Hill will fight tooth and nail to protect their bosses, or their cushy after service tenure on the Hill. They aren't protecting anyone but themselves. You the elected person is so far down the list on what they care about I bet the fact their kid wants an iPod rates higher than you wanting consumer protections from predatory monopolies. But they have no issues paying Apple hundreds for that iPod since the taxpayer pays them the money for their work on behalf of the industry. Pretty odd optics on the whole thing from where I sit here in Canada. It's obvious what is happening but nothing ever changes....I guess the average peon on the street thinks someday he'll be just like Michael Powell. Dream on....


wkm001

join:2009-12-14

To regulate, or not

We can't decide to regulate just because we don't like the amount of money the ISPs are making / charging us. There has to be more need than that.

I would love to take a "let's wait and see what happens" approach. But we all know it is harder to stop something already happening rather than plan for it ahead of time.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to mixdup

Re: Uh

said by mixdup:

I know my local utility, which is highly regulated, is a publicly traded corporation, and they make TONS of money. In fact, they essentially have a license to print it.

And that's what you seek in a Broadband provider,? In fact the sole provider, as a utility they will have exclusive right to provide that service in your area.


spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1

1 recommendation

When Powell speaks...

lies and b.s. come out of his sewer hole! What an a--hole!



mixdup

join:2003-06-28
Calera, AL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to tshirt

Re: Uh

said by tshirt:

said by mixdup:

I know my local utility, which is highly regulated, is a publicly traded corporation, and they make TONS of money. In fact, they essentially have a license to print it.

And that's what you seek in a Broadband provider,? In fact the sole provider, as a utility they will have exclusive right to provide that service in your area.

Well, just classifying broadband as a utility wouldn't mean enshrining any monopolies into law. You could regulate both MSO-provided and RBOC-provided broadband as a utility, and in the areas that the RBOCs haven't gotten rid of DSL, have competition but still have a regulated market. Airlines and railroads were once heavily regulated (and I'm not arguing for that level of regulation in the broadband market) yet they still had competition.

Electricity is the type of utility where it's inherently difficult to have actual competition unless you have weird constructs such as separating the delivery (the physical infrastructure) and the "energy company" that you buy the power from. Also, FWIW, my local electric utility is printing money and has a monopoly, but our rates are lower than than the national average. Not perfect but not horrible either.


newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·Comcast

1 recommendation

We want promises to be kept

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=djyWbVXeXlU

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

3 recommendations

He has it backwards

"the shiver you feel in a cold house after a snowstorm knocks out the power and the water main breaks along your commute should restrain one from embracing the illusory virtues of public utility regulation."

That shiver you feel is due to the utility companies behaving like public corporations instead of utilities. If they operated like utility companies, the power would have been restored considerably faster after Sandy and people wouldn't still be waiting for dial tone.

This is exactly the kind of lie I would expect from a cable company lobbyist.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits
reply to mixdup

Re: Uh

How many of each true Utility reach your home? Gas? Electric? phone? sewer? water?
One of the carrots for utilities is to have sole access because the cost of the plant, and RoW spacing make multiple providers prohibitive. The broadband industry already does have the "railroads" in the backbone/tier1 transport, what is lacking in some places is the local freight/UPS/FedEx that move the goods between the railroad and the end user residences.
In some areas electric "deregulation" has separated the delivery from the production>provider so you pay X to the "utility" which owns the poles/transformers and wires, and than pay one of several separate entity for providing the actually kilowatts used. While this mimics a competitive environment due to the inefficiency of those multiple middle-man power brokers(literally) has actually caused higher prices everywhere I've seen.
and the wholesale power market was still just as susceptible to manipulation as ever ---Enron

I certainly not defending Powell's silly argument against making but I do believe their are other factors that don't support it happening...At least not yet.
And remember even if it's a utility, that does not make it a "lifeline" service, ie something REQUIRED everywhere.

Many of the "Utilities" city dwellers must have to survive (gas, sewer, water, even electric service) are often up to the rural user to provide for themselves.
even indoor plumbing isn't a "Necessity" or even possible in a surprisingly high percentage of homes.



wizardry

@164.107.103.x

Haha he is getting nervous

"At first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then you fight, and then you win." The fact that he claims that some reasonable regulation would crater the industry and customer service quality shows that they are getting scared. Which is funny in a second way: the FCC is totally captured by lobbyists. What are they afraid of?

On the subject of regulation, can we discuss some specifics? What exactly would a common carrier declaration entail? What would be the benefits and costs? Are there any non-obvious problems with net neutrality? Personally, I'd like to see the FCC cultivate competition but I don't want to see the government replace Comcast et al. as the gatekeeper to the Internet. (ex. obscenity regulations on broadcast media).



ieolus
Support The Clecs

join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
reply to tshirt

Re: Uh

How is it I can have a choice of gas company using the same pipes but not ISP using the same pipes? Natural gas is a bit more substantial to move than 1s and 0s.
--
"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp



WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5

2 recommendations

Utilities Are Often Franchised

Utilities are often franchised meaning there is one and only one provider of a related incumbent service. An unusual exception decades ago was in Lubbock, TX where there were areas on outskirts of town you had three electric utilities and three sets of outside plant.

If ISP become turf protected utilities, that could very well shut out consumer choices of better services, lower costs, and higher speeds from new innovative companies.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to ieolus

Re: Uh

said by ieolus:

How is it I can have a choice of gas company using the same pipes but not ISP using the same pipes?

Assuming you don't mean Propane, do you think they actually remove the gas from one company from the main line and switch it over to another if you change your mind who you pay for it?
when they changed to this system, did it actually make it cheaper? more reliable? or as I described above did it just add 1 or more layers to the distribution and regulation chain and all their expenses.

I'm not opposed to the single pipe idea IF the pipe builder is fairly compensated for providing it, that the entire public recognizes and agrees to the extra cost "Utility" status brings,
and that the market is not so curtailed that the pipe provider finds it no longer worth building out/reaching the rest of the people.


ieolus
Support The Clecs

join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA

No, I don't mean propane. I have the choice of natural gas providers to my house, and I don't have one pipe for each provider... just one gas line into my house.

Good, I am glad you are not opposed to splitting up the infrastructure from the content. It really is the only way that makes sense going forward.
--
"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to WHT

Re: Utilities Are Often Franchised

It certainly would limit the likelihood of changing technology, ie If the cable provider was THE broadband company for your area, the fiber over builder would have little incentive to even seek a franchise to overbuild.

for the most part you would be stuck with whatever is the most pervasive technology in your area today.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to ieolus

Re: Uh

It does at some point, I think we are still in the build and consolidate phase. Cable HSI maybe close to being THE nationwide plant.
The other question is the cost of compensation for those businesses disrupted by the change, and who pays.
There are still a huge % with little to know interest in having internet service, leaving those that do to shoulder MOST of the transitional cost. and a lot of the "cheaper, cheaper, cheaper" crowd upset at the end starter cost (this system would advantage the heavy- MUST have user more then the casual user, with each paying and equal cost for a equal sized pipe, , plus usage on top, plus regulator fees.


tabernak

join:2013-08-10
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service

1 recommendation

My power and water has always been more reliable than my internet

Bring it on.

I easily average under 1 day per year without power and that's just because of an icestorm a few years back. Public water has been even more reliable, current house is well/septic and therefor corresponds to power availability. It took me a month to establish internet here and the last several years my internet has easily averaged a total outage time greater than 1 day/year (Cox, Comcast, At&t). These assessments come form having living in Arkansas/Alabama/Mississippi the last 8 years.

If the deep dirty poor south can provide more reliable utilities than ISPs can internet, that tells you something.


ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
reply to mixdup

Re: Uh

First Energy Corp is a highly regulated company as well. But they are also deregulated. They answer to the States they operate in, but to avoid their tariffs they own a non-regulated "reseller" of power- First Energy Solutions. They're the company that all of the cities/counties use in their service areas for bulk power deals.


ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
reply to tshirt

We have that in Ohio where we pay company X for billing/poles/meters, etc for power and gas, and then company XX for the service itself. on average the bills are higher than going direct to that company for everything. You're not saving anything up front nor long term with using another provider.


WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

Separate transport and content.

The only way a utility ISP would work is for the transport to be separated from the content. That is how the power and telco systems got built. In the beginning you had all kinds of competition in telco but it was expensive because every company had to place their own lines. The networks were also ugly because of the duplication and the first builds were iron wire on glass insulators.

AT&T had the best POTS network not because it was a local monopoly but because it was almost a monopoly in long distance. GTE and other networks covered large areas but their networks did not bring in the revenue because the more rural and they did not have the long distance revenue.

Just take a street with 10 houses and 3 ISPs that also provided TV and each ISP served 3 houses and 1 house was empty. Three times as much money was spent then if one company provided a dark fiber with just a connection on each end. I bet you may get more then 3 content providers if they did not have to cover the cost of building the fiber network. Do you think Netflix would have gotten off the ground if they had to build a network. Just like the cable companies would have had a hard time if they had develop and produce all their programing.

Just keep the transport a monopoly utility and separate from the content.


ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
reply to ieolus

Re: Uh

You have access to the non-regulated companies. Those are different and can be cheaper than the regular company. they don't also have the same costs of maintaining the lines,etc.


steevo22

join:2002-10-17
Fullerton, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·AT&T DSL Service

But the easements they got for free were for regulated services.

As long as those utility companies want to use the same easements on both my private property and on public property, they are supposed to be regulated.

Those easements were given to them for regulated services. Not for unregulated services.

I am against them getting a free ride on those easements to sell their "unregulated" services.

I charge $6,000 a month for easements to operate unregulated services on my property. I recommend all my neighbors charge the same.

This is something you don't hear them wanting to talk about.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to tshirt

Re: Uh

He is talking about the deregulation of certain utilities.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

reply to ieolus

"Good, I am glad you are not opposed to splitting up the infrastructure from the content. It really is the only way that makes sense going forward."

This is how Muni's should be run. It's like city streets. The city builds and maintains them and then private companies use the roads to deliver their goods and services to the citizens of the community. Provided you are qualified to do such a business (and it already exists in all 50 states) you can buy a connection it to the Muni network and deliver services.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.