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Comments on news posted 2014-05-13 16:32:01: For years now Chinese hardware vendor Huawei has been used as a political bogeyman, numerous politicians claiming repeatedly that the vendor is little more than a spy for the Chinese government. ..


sandman9r
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join:2003-11-09
Franklin Square, NY

1 recommendation

sandman9r

Premium Member

All For It

I see this as a logical step to avoid cyberspying. We must keep the Chinese in check. This has nothing to do with helping boost the profits of U.S. companies. Let's not get too cynical.

Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
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join:2004-09-11
San Diego, CA

1 recommendation

Edrick

Premium Member

Re: All For It

What? Did you read the article? Avoid cyberspying? Did you read that the US is using our hardware to spy on other countries?

ArrayList
DevOps
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join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

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ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: All For It

and it provides no evidence that it is true.... excellent reporting.

Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
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join:2004-09-11
San Diego, CA

Edrick

Premium Member

Re: All For It

Give me two reasons I should for one moment think the US government wouldn't do such a thing? It's not like they have a clean or even somewhat acceptable record of privacy.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 recommendation

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: All For It

It is illogical to assume guilt without evidence of guilt.
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN

Chubbysumo

Member

Re: All For It

The government and corporations do it all the time, why can't we?

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 recommendation

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: All For It

Prove that corproations do it all the time.
Prove that the government does it all the time.

Make a claim, back it up with proof. Surely you will provide some.

Astyanax
Premium Member
join:2002-11-14
Melbourne, FL

Astyanax

Premium Member

Re: All For It

Edward Snowden
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned) to ArrayList

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to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:

It is illogical to assume guilt without evidence of guilt.

What evidence do you want? Here's some evidence:

»arstechnica.com/informat ··· e-magic/

How about stop burying your head in the sand and read about the way the NSA has used metadata, which they assured us was innocuous, to carry out targeted assassinations:

»rt.com/usa/158460-cia-di ··· -people/

So, obviously, if they'll hand off geolocation data from SIM cards and other metadata for drone strikes, installing hardware backdoors in domestic and foreign computers doesn't really require you to suspend disbelief.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

Re: All For It

said by 54761437:

What evidence do you want? Here's some evidence:

Don't bother replying to the troll. No matter what you post he'll either just dismiss it outright or say what they're doing is fine and legal and we shouldn't know or learn about it as "we wouldn't understand it anyway."

/M
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Re: All For It

said by mackey:

said by 54761437:

What evidence do you want? Here's some evidence:

Don't bother replying to the troll. No matter what you post he'll either just dismiss it outright or say what they're doing is fine and legal and we shouldn't know or learn about it as "we wouldn't understand it anyway."

/M

It's fine. When he's flagged as a deviant and a tax cheat by the NSA, and the jackboots kick in his door and waste him, maybe he'll have a couple seconds for reevaluation.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to ArrayList

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to ArrayList
I agree, but tell that to the government!

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

2 recommendations

battleop to ArrayList

Member

to ArrayList
It's on the internet dude. It's true.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: All For It

lol!
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov to battleop

Member

to battleop
said by battleop:

It's on the internet dude. It's true.

Big Brother's Mission is to know all that is possible; the sky is the limit in means.

Remember: British Spy Chiefs Secretly Begged to Play in NSA’s Data Pools

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

David to battleop

Premium Member

to battleop
said by battleop:

It's on the internet dude. It's true.

Bon Jour!

ColdWar
@50.182.54.x

ColdWar to Edrick

Anon

to Edrick
said by Edrick:

Did you read that the US is using our hardware to spy on other countries?

Thank God. National Defense is one of the few legitimate responsibilities of the Federal Gov't. That and regulating trade.

Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
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join:2004-09-11
San Diego, CA

Edrick

Premium Member

Re: All For It

So it's acceptable for the US to spy on other countries with equipment shipped out of the US. But it's not acceptable for other countries to spy on the US with equipment shipped out of their country?

Just trying to understand your logic in how any of this is considered acceptable.

ColdWar
@50.182.54.x

-1 recommendation

ColdWar

Anon

Re: All For It

said by Edrick:

So it's acceptable for the US to spy on other countries with equipment shipped out of the US. But it's not acceptable for other countries to spy on the US with equipment shipped out of their country?

Of course. All's fair in war. And make no mistake about it, we are at war. The golden rule doesn't apply. The rule is "Do unto others and stop them from doing unto you". Read Sun Tzu »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th ··· t_of_War
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Re: All For It

So who are we at war with, exactly? Is it fair to breach the Constitution and monitor your own citizens, dragnet style? The myriad three-letter agencies are ONLY seeking to justify their own existence and their enormous budgets. We need to get our shit together, economically and socially, before we worry about China, Russia, or girls being kidnapped in Nigeria.

ColdWar
@50.182.54.x

1 recommendation

ColdWar

Anon

Re: All For It

said by 54761437:

So who are we at war with, exactly? We need to get our shit together, economically and socially, before we worry about China, Russia

Russia is being ruled by a Hitler wannabe who is intent on retaking all of Eastern Europe and resurrecting the Iron Curtain. As long as Putin and his KGB cronies rule Russia, they are our enemy.

And China has spent the last 30 yrs gearing up to destroy the US economy. And, unfortunately IMHO, we are complicit in our own destruction by continuing to trade with them. Opening up more of our economy to Chinese trade is a grave error. Keep Huaweii out of US.
54761437 (banned)
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Durham, NC

1 recommendation

54761437 (banned)

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Re: All For It

said by ColdWar :

said by 54761437:

So who are we at war with, exactly? We need to get our shit together, economically and socially, before we worry about China, Russia

Russia is being ruled by a Hitler wannabe who is intent on retaking all of Eastern Europe and resurrecting the Iron Curtain. As long as Putin and his KGB cronies rule Russia, they are our enemy.

And China has spent the last 30 yrs gearing up to destroy the US economy. And, unfortunately IMHO, we are complicit in our own destruction by continuing to trade with them. Opening up more of our economy to Chinese trade is a grave error. Keep Huaweii out of US.

But exactly how are we going to continue along our current trajectory with deficit spending and a $600 billion defense budget? The military does not generate revenue; it takes, takes, and takes. China is a paper tiger. Their economy is hollowed out and they have to keep up massive infrastructure spending to give the appearance of a booming economy. The Chinese cook their books to make their GDP growth look stronger than it really is (sort of like we do). You're putting the cart before the horse. Nothing works without a strong economy.
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103 to Edrick

Member

to Edrick
Are you surprised ? Do you think this is the first time this has been done.
NSA 'owns' Cisco, just as much as China owns Huawei - possibly even more.

Having keys to Cisco through certificates / backdoors, etc. will effectively give you the keys to almost all data. Many servers use F5 or Cisco load balancers to host their SSL certificates. Forge certs or inject data...hmmm.

Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
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join:2004-09-11
San Diego, CA

Edrick

Premium Member

Re: All For It

This isn't having keys, this is the US government intercepting shipments to over seas apparently. Inserting / modifying their own backdoors and re sealing the shipment as if it left the vendor untampered.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: All For It

said by Edrick:

This isn't having keys, this is the US government intercepting shipments to over seas apparently. Inserting / modifying their own backdoors and re sealing the shipment as if it left the vendor untampered.

Does that even make sense? Why open all the boxes when you can use a back door (physical or hardware/software based) at cisco to preload it straight from the factory, if they can insert spies overseas how hard would it be to find someone at a US corp. ready to do as they were told.

Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
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join:2004-09-11
San Diego, CA

Edrick

Premium Member

Re: All For It

1) Cisco isn't the only network vendor
2) Not every network vendor is in the backpocket of the NSA / CIA / Other Organization

tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: All For It

said by Edrick:

2) Not every network vendor is in the backpocket of the NSA / CIA / Other Organization

you're "pretty sure" about that?

Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
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join:2004-09-11
San Diego, CA

Edrick

Premium Member

Re: All For It

Where did I say I was "pretty sure"? I left no hint of doubt in my statement.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to Edrick

Member

to Edrick
There is Juniper. Cisco is the biggest network vendor.

ArrayList
DevOps
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join:2005-03-19
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ArrayList

Premium Member

really????

do people really believe this cloak and dagger bullsh*t?

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: really????

said by ArrayList:

do people really believe this cloak and dagger bullsh*t?

Cause it reads like a Hollywoodyoutube grade B script. so it has to be true.
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

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54761437 (banned) to ArrayList

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to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:

do people really believe this cloak and dagger bullsh*t?

Do people like you revel in their own ignorance? What does it say about someone who refuses to accept facts? The government engaged in suggestion and innuendo to run Huawei out of the country, and nothing was ever proven. What the NSA has done, however, is proven. Deal with it.

ArrayList
DevOps
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join:2005-03-19
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ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: really????

how is it proven that they tampered with American products being shipped out of the country?
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
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Windsor, ON

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HeadSpinning to ArrayList

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said by ArrayList:

do people really believe this cloak and dagger bullsh*t?

I dunno - how many times has the US government proclaimed they don't spy on citizens, collect data on citizens, etc., whatever, then months later we find out that is EXACTLY what they've been doing, and the congress critters all act aghast like they never knew and demand inquiries.

Lather, rinse, repeat...

•••

Astyanax
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join:2002-11-14
Melbourne, FL
·AT&T FTTP

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Most didn't until Snowden came along. You should watch the PBS Frontline documentary "United States of Secrets". I saw it last night. If you thought it was all BS like I did before, you won't anymore. It was a 2-hour long program and was only part 1. Part 2 will be 2 hours of how they know everything you electronically do.
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ColdWar
@50.182.54.x

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ColdWar

Anon

Cold war never ended

That is the way it is in the world. Spy on them and try to stop them spying on us. Those who try to out US spying should be treated as traitors to the US.

••••••••

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

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battleop

Member

I didn't decide against Huawei because of spying...

I choose against them because most of the Chinese designed and build electronics coming out of China is crap in other areas.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

Re: I didn't decide against Huawei because of spying...

You do realize that the "high end" Cisco gear is made on the exact same assembly lines in the exact same factory as that "Chinese crap," right?

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: I didn't decide against Huawei because of spying...

The exact same? Source?

Alakar
Facts do not cease to exist when ignored
join:2001-03-23
Milwaukee, WI

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Alakar

Member

I'm shocked...

That US government agencies chartered with foreign intelligence gathering would gather foreign intelligence!

Simple lesson:

CIA/NSA spying within the US = BAD!

CIA/NSA spying in foreign countries = exactly what they were created for

fiostv
@24.243.21.x

fiostv

Anon

Re: I'm shocked...

Whats next?telecommunications companies trying to maximize profits?I am shocked!!!!!

meeeeeeeeee
join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 edit

meeeeeeeeee

Member

They are just doing what Amerikan Government does best..

Destroying the last little bit of our economy. Soon, NO ONE will want to do business with Amerikan companies for fear that their information will be stolen by the U.S. Government and God only knows what will happen to their trade secrets and confidential business information. It's already started. I know two companies that lost major European contracts over this and are now on the verge of closing. Another 100 or so good paying Amerikan jobs down the crapper. Do you really think this subject isn't coming up in board rooms around the world?

You know... looking at what Amerika has become... Osama WON.
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Duffman
@96.53.125.x

Duffman

Anon

...and no information

*who* these bugged devices were sent to? Were these sent to run the Great Firewall, or the DGSE, or Toyota, or Mama & Papa's Italian pizzeria? Cause there's a whole world of difference between bugging the 'competition' vs the public.

Zhuubaajie
@64.60.68.x

Zhuubaajie

Anon

Hypocrite Got Caught

What can you say. Just 6 months ago, the boards and forums were still filled with China bashers declaring that China is the largest thief where it comes to secrets. Revelations since Snowden has made it clear that America had always been the biggest of them all, going after data in all sorts of unauthorized manner (if anyone else did it you'd call it thieving), using the biggest of supercomputers and the biggest databanks manned by the most knowledgeable of data scientists. In terms of volume, it is about a million times what the rest of the world put together.

Now you do not hear about accusations of others doing data theft anymore (because it'd be leading with the chin).

Thief screaming stop thief can be most embarrassing when the thief gets caught.

tmh
@173.13.197.x

tmh

Anon

NSA branded routers

Why don't we make it easy for everybody and just have NSA market their own brand of routers.

"NSA networking equipment. 100% US made spyware. No foreign content. So you can rest easy knowing exactly who's spying on you."
jorcmg
join:2002-10-24
USA

jorcmg

Member

china

There is not much network equipment manufacturing left in the US anyways. If the manufacturers (now means business writing the check) are using foxconn there is nothing stopping china anyways.

China doesnt need to steal anything. The corporations give them everything gladly so it can be made at slave labor prices.
tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL

tkdslr

Member

I don't buy into this story..

Because most of these routers are dropped shipped from China/Mexico/Philippines/India/etc directly to target county..

Why bother importing them into the USA?? We don't manufacture this stuff anymore..

Besides, where do you think all these counterfeit/clone products are coming from.. The same factories which manufactured the originals.. (not in the USA).

2nd reason.. these extremely complex products are often firmware updated in the field. Just how is the NSA going to get past those QC checks. Intercept the patch, program new compatible patch/test it/validate it on the fly and then send to overseas client. I don't think so.

This story doesn't have the right smell to it..
smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home

smcallah

Member

Re: I don't buy into this story..

I agree, there are many things wrong with this story and it's not very thought through.

The NSA is not able to track every single device and what is being done with that device at any particular time.

Someone would have discovered the NSA hardware or software installed in these routers by now.

Take for example if a router broke and needed to be RMA'ed. The NSA isn't going to know that is happening, unless they also have an undercover employee at every network provider. So what if that broken router gets back to the repair center? And someone finds what was done to it?

Also considering that some companies get routers for spares or they sit on shelves for months before being turned on.

And then when routers are decommissioned, they are often times sold to a 3rd party that will dispose of them by selling them in a grey market in 3rd world countries. Another set of hands touching them that the NSA is not going to be able to track without thousands of undercover employees working at all levels in all companies.

This story has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

My guess is, that the pictures are actually the NSA, and they are hardening their own routers for use in their own network, and someone is trying to be sensationalist.

Overtkill
Premium Member
join:2005-09-21
Tooele, UT

Overtkill

Premium Member

Interesting... However...

What make people think that companies like Cisco, doesn't do the same for the DOD?

Back doors ISP tier hardware, does seem to be all the rage these days.
(/end sarcasm)