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Comments on news posted 2014-06-04 10:33:34: Netflix may have struck interconnection deals with Comcast and Verizon, but the company continues to make it very clear they're not happy about it. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next

ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

HE

Our ISP is interconnected to HE and if I access Netflix at the office it buffers. So its just beyond what Netflix wants people to believe. Hulu has no problem, Redbox no problem. Netflix! YEP!



dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

Cost savings

But did Netflix save any money by reducing their bandwidth with their primary ISP. How does this compare to the additional cost of paying Comcast and Verizon? I presume Netflix is streaming from within the customer's ISP's network now correct?

If that is correct, then the congestion at this point can only be 100% the fault of the customer's ISP.
--
dnoyeB

"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes
9:16



IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

2 recommendations

Awesome...

Good stuff Netflix... Good stuff.

smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home

1 recommendation

reply to dnoyeB

Re: Cost savings

said by dnoyeB:

If that is correct, then the congestion at this point can only be 100% the fault of the customer's ISP.

But it doesn't necessarily mean that it is congestion causing the problem. Netflix has no idea what is going on in the ISP's network. They only know that the ABR had to adjust on a video.

It could be a temporary fiber cut or router outage causing some packet loss or temporary congestion.


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:2

NM


BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to smcallah

said by smcallah:

But it doesn't necessarily mean that it is congestion causing the problem. Netflix has no idea what is going on in the ISP's network. They only know that the ABR had to adjust on a video.

It could be a temporary fiber cut or router outage causing some packet loss or temporary congestion.

Not only that, but someone could have a sub par wireless connection within their own home, they would simply assume that everything is working. I've seen a number of consumer-based routers act up and either require a firmware update, or a flat out replacement. That would not be the ISP's responsibility.

Fast forward to them calling their ISP, claiming "Netflix told me it was your problem".

I don't quite agree with Netflix on this one. It's a method that makes a very large assumption.


karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Detroit, MI

6 recommendations

we don't know the mechanism by which Netflix is generating this warning yet, but I trust Netflix much, much more than the ISPs.

I would guess that if ABR needs to be adjusted for x% of users where X is greater than 5% of total number of the customers streaming for the ISP, the message is generated.



Best way

@205.153.54.x

1 recommendation

This is the best way to handle this

I honestly see this as the best approach to handle the situation. Instead of letting the ISP demand more cash, let the consumer see who is really at fault here so they can properly direct their dissatisfaction. If verzion and others dont like it they should maybe start doing their jobs and providing reliable and consistent service.

I am very much against the paying the ISP off model since it does nothing but encourage bad behavior



davidc502

join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN
Reviews:
·TDS

4 recommendations

Peering agreements

The ISP "TDS" has a open peering agreement >>> »as4181.net/peering.html -- They have over 1 million subscribers

Anyone who wants to peer with them can, and at no charge. Why no charge? Because it's in the interests of both the ISP and the company wanting to provide content to TDS subscribers. Frankly, it's GREED that's driving these other ISPs to charge in the millions for the peering with Netflix.

Netflix is now starting to fight back against this corporate greed, and I'm sure we will all be hearing more about it in the future.
--
Cord Cutter Hauppauge DTV Tuner Card PlayOn.tv Hulu.com Netflix.com Windows Media Center Guide.
Here's how »homes.yahoo.com/news/how-to-pay-···275.html



I agree

@205.153.54.x

2 recommendations

reply to karpodiem

Re: Cost savings

I agree, netflix has proven to be more honest and straightforward than all of the ISPs combined



whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to smcallah

said by smcallah:

But it doesn't necessarily mean that it is congestion causing the problem. Netflix has no idea what is going on in the ISP's network. They only know that the ABR had to adjust on a video.

Sort of... They can also look at metrics / flow data to determine which eyeballs are slow and out of what pop.

So for example - if a significant number of Verizon customers sucking content from their LGA pop have a drop in bit rate, they can probably make some generalizations about peering/VZ's network in the region.

I would hope that the buffering message is taking those metrics into account, rather than showing regardless for any buffering for users on VZ's ASN.

RJW1678

join:2003-01-15
Wilmington, DE

Netflix buffering problems

I have FiOS 150/65 and the only time I have Netflix buffering problems is between 8pm and 11pm, but not every night(a couple times a week). Any other time of the day I do not have any buffering problems. Hopefully as Verizon implements the changes under their agreement with Netflix it will get better. By the way on nights I have buffering problems on FiOS with Netflix, I do not have any buffering problems on Verizon 4G/LTE watching the same movie(I decided to try it one night), but with the 4G/LTE cap I can only watch about 2-4 movies then I am almost at the cap.

Later, Bob W


guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

6 recommendations

reply to davidc502

Re: Peering agreements

said by davidc502:

Netflix is now starting to fight back against this corporate greed

That's the funniest post I have ever seen about this, in case you don't know there is zero difference between the company's, there both publicly traded corporations.

All Netflx is pissed about is that THERE not getting as much PROFIT, that's it


PlusOne

@50.182.54.x

-3 recommendations

said by guppy_fish:

said by davidc502:

Netflix is now starting to fight back against this corporate greed

That's the funniest post I have ever seen about this, in case you don't know there is zero difference between the company's, there both publicly traded corporations.

All Netflx is pissed about is that THERE not getting as much PROFIT, that's it

+1


PlusOne

@50.182.54.x
reply to dnoyeB

Re: Cost savings

said by dnoyeB:

But did Netflix save any money by reducing their bandwidth with their primary ISP. How does this compare to the additional cost of paying Comcast and Verizon? I presume Netflix is streaming from within the customer's ISP's network now correct?

If that is correct, then the congestion at this point can only be 100% the fault of the customer's ISP.

The streaming problem may not be the interconnection point with Verizon. The problem may just be with the millions of Verizon customers that are still on SLOW DSL and not on FIOS. Improving interconnection points won't help slow DSL users at all.


jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1

6 recommendations

reply to guppy_fish

Re: Peering agreements

They are probably upset that they have to pay multiple times for the same service, when they really should only have to pay their own ISP once.



davidc502

join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN
Reviews:
·TDS
reply to guppy_fish

said by guppy_fish:

That's the funniest post I have ever seen about this, in case you don't know there is zero difference between the company's, there both publicly traded corporations.

All Netflx is pissed about is that THERE not getting as much PROFIT, that's it

That has absolutely nothing to do with the price of beans in China!

You're just trying to confuse the issue.
--
Cord Cutter Hauppauge DTV Tuner Card PlayOn.tv Hulu.com Netflix.com Windows Media Center Guide.
Here's how »homes.yahoo.com/news/how-to-pay-···275.html


davidc502

join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN
Reviews:
·TDS

4 recommendations

reply to jmn1207

said by jmn1207:

They are probably upset that they have to pay multiple times for the same service, when they really should only have to pay their own ISP once.

Bingo! As they have pointed out many times before... They consider it to be double dipping.
--
Cord Cutter Hauppauge DTV Tuner Card PlayOn.tv Hulu.com Netflix.com Windows Media Center Guide.
Here's how »homes.yahoo.com/news/how-to-pay-···275.html


bluefox8

@65.216.195.x

6 recommendations

Not bad

That's great. I have FiOS and I am tired of Verizon playing games. They charge me for the dumb pipe, then they charge Netflix again for the dumb pipe. That's a shakedown like no other. Then they try to play it both ways by claiming Title II for benefits such as rights of way but not regulation such as common carrier classification. They use your own money to lobby against your interests.

When dumb pipe starts acting smart, it's time to fix things. What Netflix is doing is a great job informing the average customer. Notice that the message is straight from netflix to customer, nothing Verizon can do about it. Which is the way dumb pipes should be.



Wow User

@137.128.79.x

2 recommendations

reply to RJW1678

Re: Netflix buffering problems

I have WOW! old-fashioned coax 30/3 and the only time I have Netflix buffering problems is never.


YDC

join:2007-11-13
Hewlett, NY

6 recommendations

Netflix is just one of many having problems

Verizon has been saturated on their FIOS network periodically. You can blame it on Netflix or whoever you want to, but Verizon has been reaching capacity, specifically in their BPON enabled markets for most of the year. In these areas, only 100 Mbps is possible to the ONT. Additionally, the speed carried between their delivery points is quite limited. They really need to upgrade these neighborhoods using either newer GPON technology or do break-off routing to make their nodes smaller and have local GPON feed points if they have to use a band-aid. There are times when I cannot even get to on-demand. It times out. So, is it Netflix? No, it is Verizon.



Grrrr

@137.128.79.x

6 recommendations

Attention Comcast and Verizon!

The only reason I pay for your service is to get to content. If you mess with my ability to get the content I pay to have access to, you have no reason to exist and I have no reason to pay you. People do not need 50meg service to use Facebook, Twitter, and whatever. Again, the only reason you have a service that you can sell is due to content providers.



JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL

I'm siding with Netflix

At least for now.
J



nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
kudos:2
reply to Grrrr

Re: Attention Comcast and Verizon!

Exactly.



pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV

4 recommendations

reply to guppy_fish

Re: Peering agreements

You cant be serious? You have to be trolling or an industry shill.

Anyone in their right mind can see that netflix is 100% in the right on this issue, the ISPs need to start doing what they are supposed to be doing which is providing a service for pay instead of expecting to get paid 15x for the same traffic.



Zenit

join:2012-05-07
N. VA, USA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon Online DSL

1 recommendation

reply to YDC

Re: Netflix is just one of many having problems

If VZ wont spend to complete the FIOS rollout and bring a large chunk of their footprint out of the telecom stone age, and they wont spend to maintain the copper (yay trash bags and tape), why on earth would they invest in more backbone for FIOS?

I dont think BPON is the issue, but rather congestion up ahead between COs. And these long-haul regional inter-CO backbone links are expensive.

The current VZ leadership is going to run the company into the ground, banking entirely on a silly 4G LTE is good enough for everyone future.



AgentSmith

@209.242.148.x
reply to Grrrr

Re: Attention Comcast and Verizon!

Yes! I agree 100%.



Probitas

@206.248.154.x

2 recommendations

reply to BlueC

Re: Cost savings

Simple assumption.

1) You are a customer of an ISP and you pay for up to X speed (can't guarantee the speed) with Y bandwidth (they can guarantee to charge you if you go over) for $Z monthly (plus overages).

2) Your Netflix experience is crap. Buffering all the time.

3) Netflix is paying beaucoup dollars to ensure they can send the data to you (bits and bytes, doesn't matter what that means when assembled back together) at a speed fast enough for you NOT to buffer

4) Only person left to blame at this point IS the ISP, who should do troubleshooting to rule out the router and modem, that's part of the job of BEING an ISP. Not just deflecting it back and claiming Netflix is the issue. That pass the buck mentality isn't going to work anymore.

They now have to PROVE it's either the customer equipment or Netflix, not just make statements that their pipes are fine and working wonderfully. It's about damn time.



wdoa

join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA

Verizon is def. playing games

I have Verizon DSL and have a pretty solid 14/1 connection (I'm within a few blocks of the CO). Speed tests all come back with full speed and low latency. All was good until the last few months when I started getting poor quality and buffering on Netflix, Youtube and other video intensive sights. I'm pretty sure it's Verizon because once I fire up my Private Internet Access VPN Connection (using US East Coast) all problems with buffering and poor quality disappear.


silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
reply to I agree

Re: Cost savings

Have they? They whined about having to make a deal with Comcast, lead the media to believe it would cost a fortune and is the reason for their price hike, yet told investors the deal would have little impact financially.

When it comes to their monthly speed results, they could not be any less straightforward. No details on how the results are compiled. They refuse to help ISPs improve results or even tell them how they got the results unless they join OpenConnect.