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Comments on news posted 2014-06-05 12:24:25: Yesterday we noted how Netflix had fired another shot over the bow in the ongoing peering war by changing their familiar buffering warning message to specifically single out ISPs when consumers see poor performance. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


why60loss

join:2012-09-20

1 recommendation

Good for them

I would likely do the same if I ran Netflix. It's time to put some of the blame on the crappy ISP's like Verizon.


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?

Have they tested to be absolutely positively certain that an ISP blockade is the ONLY circumstance that can trigger a warning?
That their definition of ABNORMAL is in fact abnormal?
and are they willing to open it up for independent testing and analysis?
perhaps even pay for continuing oversight and public disclosure?
Cause right now it still looks like a "misleading PR stunt"

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
Agreed, there is a lot more real data that NetFlix or even Level3 could release without violating non-disclosure aspects of their contracts.


IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

Peering question....

Comcast peering has improved performance.

Verizon peering has not.

Anyone have an opinion why?


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:42
Comcast's interconnection deal was announced in February, Verizon's in April. Should start seeing improvements the next two monthly reports for Verizon users.


pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV

4 recommendations

reply to tshirt

Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?

I dont see this as a PR stunt at all, I see this as a transparency measure. Anyone other than an ISP employee would see it the same way

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
I think that's the point, its lacking transparency and real supporting data.


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to IPPlanMan

Re: Peering question....

As Comcast said at the time they had started much of the interconnect work while negotiations under way so they could quickly complete it while the ink dried. perhaps V and Netflix have upgrades not yet finished, or inadequate in scale for the task.
OR perhaps this is one side or the other being unhappy agreement/result and wishing to yank the others chain hoping for further gifts to fall from the sky.
NF seems to have their hand firmly around V's "chain" and be yanking hard.


pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

3 recommendations

reply to AVonGauss

Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?

And an auditor paid for BY comcast is transparent? Please, comcast has been shown to be a greedy corporation that does not care about their customers. They have one of the lowest customer satisfaction rates in the country. I believe netflix any day over comcast.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
Yet the evil corporation actually goes to the trouble of having a third party perform the audit and releases (at least for the last one) the basis (data) and audit report for public viewing.


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to AVonGauss
See, this bothers me
"That's how it works now, but Netflix may modify/tune as they continue to roll out and learn more.
Sort of like " it's not finished, may not even work correctly, but the first thing we'll do, is put up a billboard and accuse them of stalling"
rather then quietly informing the new "partner/signatory" that the interconnect is not yet up to the task.
it's the highly publicized part of the stunt that doesn't seem to be quite right.

masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM

Accuracy?

How does accuracy help that when it's relative and the a few of the checks are discrete? People either can or can't maintain a certain bitstream. Unless the amount the measurement is off by is wandering, they are compareing the same connection points on it's capacity during peak and off peak times. So if netflix's meter is 10% high during off peak, and it's 10% high during peak, the difference between them doesn't change, so why does accuracy matter in that respect?

marctronixx

join:2003-09-08
Los Angeles, CA

Make me understand

I'm reading the Netflix blog and the graphic representation of how they are connecting makes sense visually, however I'm confused by something : isn't Netflix still using one of those content carriers like level3 for example to still be able to connect directly to Comcast? Whose pipe is it between Comcast and Netflix?

It's probably something I'm missing that's super simple.....

masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM
reply to tshirt

Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?

Some of their criteria is based on arbitrary set points, like what is "abnormally compressed". For credibility they want that to set that at a point where it still holds true that it's the trouble is on the ISP's end. They may even be conservative (a prudent decision when you begin pointing fingers) right now and have that value at a high level and then lower it later.

masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM
reply to marctronixx

Re: Make me understand

They could simply be doing a trace route to find the bottle neck when they identify one exists.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to tshirt

Re: Peering question....

NetFlix is, and has been for the last couple of months, yanking all of our chains.


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
reply to masterbinky

Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?

MAYBE, it has yet to be shown what their exact methodology and assumptions are, but they don't seem to have chosen the conservative approach to anything else so far.
Perhaps they will reveal actual numbers rather then unsupported conclusions.

Mystic95Z

join:2005-05-10
Sellersburg, IN
Why should they when you have the last mile corp ISP vultures make them pay twice....

dfxmatt

join:2007-08-21
Evanston, IL

1 recommendation

reply to tshirt
Please. Do you even know anything about networking? It's very plausible that this is deliberate congestion and does not read at all like "PR stunt"

ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

Apparently

Verizon has sent a cease & desist letter:

»www.cnbc.com/id/101728447


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
said by ke4pym:

Verizon has sent a cease & desist letter:

If they've resorted to legal threats it's obvious they don't have a leg to stand on.


PlusOne

@50.182.54.x
reply to tshirt

Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?

said by tshirt:

Have they tested to be absolutely positively certain that an ISP blockade is the ONLY circumstance that can trigger a warning?
That their definition of ABNORMAL is in fact abnormal?
and are they willing to open it up for independent testing and analysis?
perhaps even pay for continuing oversight and public disclosure?
Cause right now it still looks like a "misleading PR stunt"

Good point. People here demand that Comcast submit to federal regulators over their measurement claims. So where is the demand that Netflix do the same. Well???


PlusOne

@50.182.54.x
reply to nothing00

Re: Apparently

said by nothing00:

said by ke4pym:

Verizon has sent a cease & desist letter:

If they've resorted to legal threats it's obvious they don't have a leg to stand on.

Nonsense. Resorting to legal means does NOT mean you are in the wrong. It may just mean that Netflix is lying thru their teeth and Verizon knows it.


Probitas

@206.248.154.x
reply to AVonGauss

Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?

So when a pharma company has a third party they pay for release documents stating their drug is safe even if others have tested and shown NOT safe, it gets approved and then kills people, that was reliable and not bought.

When any company doing any auditing has financial ties to the company they are auditing, that's a huge red flag in my book. Government institutions are supposed to be paid for by tax payers because it's in the publics interest, not private (again, stating what it should be, not what it likely is).


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to nothing00

Re: Apparently

said by nothing00:

If they've resorted to legal threats it's obvious they don't have a leg to stand on.

Or that you are tired of being poked and don't see the short term PR scuffle worth taking it anymore.
It's put up or shut up time, Reed, stop acting like a little kid.
Expand your moderator at work

JSM88

join:2000-12-20
Falls Church, VA

1 recommendation

reply to AVonGauss

Re: Peering question....

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Taking a job posting in online forums for cable companies is no way to salvage your self respect, get help before you hit rock bottom.


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

1 recommendation

reply to PlusOne

Re: Apparently

said by PlusOne :

Nonsense. Resorting to legal means does NOT mean you are in the wrong.

Here it sure does.

The most factual Verizon has been is simply crying about how unfair life is, and just why, why can't they charge everyone on the Internet money. Bandwidth is sooo expensive and life is sooo unfair. We can't live and make record profits like this! No one is paying our bills. Waaah.

(There you go, I had a go at the rhetoric that ISP supporters use.)


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to tshirt
Yup, it's time for Lowell to realize that his customers actually deserve and demand the service they're paying for.


Jim Kirk
Premium
join:2005-12-09
Westerville, OH

1 recommendation

reply to JSM88

Re: Peering question....

The best way for trolls to hit rock bottom is to jump off a bridge.