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Comments on news posted 2014-06-06 15:37:45: During the Snowden leaks the discussion has been preoccupied with the collection of "metadata" (time, participants, length of calls), even though AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein proved back in 2007 a bigger issue is telecom companies giving intelligenc.. ..


bmccoy
join:2013-03-18
Port Orchard, WA

bmccoy

Member

W00T!

"As long as they give us money, we'll give them all of our customers' information!"

DarkMushroom
@50.170.133.x

DarkMushroom

Anon

Re: W00T!

And hey, if that fails, the criminals with badges can just tear the place apart trying to 'find' the information.
SunnyD
join:2009-03-20
Madison, AL

SunnyD

Member

Granted it's a European company...

But the fact that Vodafone is talking publicly about this, especially given their presence in the UK, and speaking out no less drives this home. There's no need to even try to wonder and you don't have to really read between the lines to know that while the carriers are complicit they're only complicit by force. Now they don't want to be, especially since it's going to affect their bottom line.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

1 edit

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: Granted it's a European company...

The "operator" has always been able to listen in, or put you on a partyline. in the age of computerized switching they don't even have to be in the building...except that the Telco wants billable hours at Gov't rates in return.

batman
@50.182.54.x

batman to SunnyD

Anon

to SunnyD
Check out other country's wire tapping policies when complaining about the USA:
»www.vodafone.com/content ··· try.html

chip89
Premium Member
join:2012-07-05
Columbia Station, OH

chip89 to SunnyD

Premium Member

to SunnyD
& Don't forget they owned part of VZW for a long time.
clone (banned)
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN

2 recommendations

clone (banned)

Member

Hooray!

While for a while I worried that, perhaps, the United States was the only country that was involved in the wholesale monitoring of the entire public's communications, I can rest easier knowing that both Europe as well as 3rd world banana republics are involved in the same type of activities. To keep us safe, of course.

I'm glad this is happening, because it's keeping us safe from all the terrorists, nonwhites, and other evildoers who definitely use twitter, POTS lines, and other establishment monitored systems to communicate with each other in plaintext. And remember kids, don't stand up and say anything about any of this, because that makes you a pinko lefty bastard. Congress and the courts have stood up for this time and time again and if you don't like it you can go find the nearest flagpole, and sit on it.

This is all 100% legal and fine, the judges and congress agree, so sit down, shut up, bend over, and keep paying money to the corporations, who have no choice but to comply with the government regulations because otherwise they would have to stand up for morality rather than make truckloads of cash, and selling everyone out is perfectly acceptable because they have businesses to run. Can you imagine what chaos could ensue if some telecom execs decided not to play ball with tyrants and had to make a few cents less profit that year? They may have had to forego installing that second hot tub this year or had to buy their daughter a Lexus instead of the BMW she really wanted.

The thought makes me want to cry, and I'm glad this article confirms that there has been no waves made and no profit lost due to "privacy", which remember you have no right to ever because you signed up for telephone service and they own the network and they can let whoever they want listen to your phone calls because they own it and it's all 100% theirs and besides the 4th Amendment only covers papers and effects and it's an outdated piece of fucking paper anyway, that doesn't matter because 9/11 and the world has changed and bend over and take your socks off because, well, terrorists!!

I think that about covers it.
mgamer20o0
join:2003-12-01
Norwalk, CA

mgamer20o0

Member

Re: Hooray!

said by clone:

This is all 100% legal and fine, the judges and congress agree, so sit down, shut up, bend over, and keep paying money to the corporations, who have no choice but to comply with the government regulations because otherwise they would have to stand up for morality rather than make truckloads of cash, and selling everyone out is perfectly acceptable because they have businesses to run.

close enough quote.

Bart:
How could you, Krusty? I never lend my name to an inferior product.
Krusty:
(gasps and sobs) They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house! I'm not made of stone!

CST
@76.103.77.x

CST to clone

Anon

to clone
"the corporations, who have no choice but to comply with the government regulations"

Likely, the corporations pushed the gov't into this in the first place.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

there never has been privacy online

"Vodafone's acknowledgement of the fact puts to rest the notion that there's any privacy online for the six remaining people worldwide that still actually believe that."

I do not understand where any one ever had the idea that there is or ever was privacy online. I have never lived as though there was. In other words i never put something online that i want to keep private. As far as the internet is concerned i'm a ghost under my real name etc. You can search my real name and location etc as till the cows come home and will never find out any thing about me. Sure i suppose you could use public records searches. But will come up with a po box no phone number address etc shows online. My emails are not in any way tied to my real name etc. But this post and 4k others here and 100k or more on various other forums under this nick or Nanaki are all fully public as they were always intended to be. Do i use email sure i do who doesn't. Do i even bother trying to keep it from being public nope. I just never email or post any thing i want to be private.

As for the rest well yeh this is bad news it is far to easy with computer controlled phone systems to be tapped and all our private communications being over heard by an one with access. Cell phones land lines etc are all able to be recorded with ease. But truth is if you ever expected your text or those nude pics of your wife to be private that you took and sent with your cell phone best forget it. There have been cases of people buying supposedly brand new camera phones that were chock full of pics and text that showed up on the phone after it was activated. Not sure if this stuff is stored on a server after it is sent and some times the flag or what ever controls it gets fouled up and the text etc gets resent to the number when it becomes active. But this stuff was all over the news a few years back.

So if you do not want your texts being potentially public or seen by others (same for pics) do not send them. This has ALWAYS been the case ever sense a cell phone could send a text or pic. Bad part is this stuff was not being seen by the gov but some random buyer. If their servers leak like that then yeh we got more problems than just the gov.

So in short if you want to keep your stuff private online then do not put it out there. The internet was never designed to be private so how can you expect a email you send to be totally private?
totalradio
join:2007-09-15
El Dorado, AR

totalradio

Member

Re: there never has been privacy online

If you sit down and really think about it, no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, you're NEVER totally anonymous on the internet. SOMEONE always knows who you are.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Re: there never has been privacy online

said by totalradio:

SOMEONE always knows who you are.

Exactly
Even with things like tor etc there are always ways to track a person down. With tor it is a fair bit harder and more time consuming. But if the gov really wants to rack down some one using tor they could. It would require them tracking back from the exit node via isp records then upstream to the next and the next. Using ip connection logs it would just be a matter of time till they traced it all the way back.

Each isp knows what ip and isp connected to any given ip on their network at any given time. They would then turn this log over to the nsa or other 3 letter agency. Then the next isp does the same etc. In theory it would work. In practice you would really have to be doing something fishy for the gov to do so.

QuietRiot
@50.170.133.x

QuietRiot

Anon

Re: there never has been privacy online

This is precisely why some onion router networks and related technologies add a random delay. In fact this is one of the main benefits of Freenet that actually makes that slowness worth it.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Re: there never has been privacy online

How exactly would a random delay prevent any of what i mentioned? The rout your communications are going through is the same other than it has some random delays tossed in. The logs still exist. The benefit of tor etc is it makes people feel like they have a huge layer of protection from the gov. They in fact have no more so than if they just went to the site to start with out. At this moment in time our gov and others are just sifting data right from the isps no warrants no court order no nothing. In other words they just log in grab what they want and log out. At least this is what every one fears. So people use tor and the like in hopes of avoiding that. But tor is just as vunrable to it as surfing naked.The only thing tor does is creat a few more steps on how many isps they have to grab data from. Unless there were say 1k to 10k isps/ips they had to go after it does little to slow any one down. Truth is you'll be slowing your self down more than the gov or any one else who wants to snoop.

The name alone of tor should give you a clue as to all it really does . The last letter in tor stands for router. In other words it routs your connection through proxies.

Ive said this before and ill say it again. Use tor at your own risk. Numerous reasons for that statement but here are the 2 biggest.

Tor uses proxies set up on personal computers that could be infected with any number of viruses spyware etc. Related and included in this personal computer issue is this. A person running a tor proxy could set up various ways of collecting personal information including bank log ins etc.

and the 2nd reason

It makes you look more suspicious meaning our gov and other govs may look at what your doing more closely and take more time to find out who you are. In other words your sending up a big bright flare saying "hey look at me im hiding or trying to hide who i am behind all these tor routers. Maybe you want to see who i am i might be a terrorist so come take a look."

So you go right on ahead and sit behind tor routers and think your safe from the gov.Posting stupid stuff you would not normally do. Ill sit behind no tor router and know the gov can and maybe does monitor what im saying and doing. Ill post accordingly as well as surf. The difference is i wont be posting things i do not want public knowing all of these things. And you will post things you do not want every one seeing thinking your safe.

Now granted i don't know if you use tor or are just making a point nor do i know if you post things you should not that would get the govs attention etc. My point is just this. May who use tor have a false sense of security. Which imo is far worse than realizing the fact you are not secure . If you know you are lacking security in a area but know you can do nothing about it that is real. You can modify your habits to compensate for that lack.
sludgehound
join:2007-03-12
New York, NY

1 recommendation

sludgehound

Member

The President's Analyst covered this 1967

"The focus on metadata always seemed to me like losing the forest for the trees in the face of the fact that everything can be monitored, any time, and somewhere Mark Klein must consistently be frustrated by the fact he exposed this kind of behavior nine years ago"

Wasn't premise of 1967's The President's Analyst related to phone company?
At first, Dr. Sidney Schaefer feels honored and thrilled to be offered the job of the President's Analyst. But then the stress of the job and the paranoid spies that come with a sensitive government position get to him, and he runs away. Now spies from all over the world are after him, either to get him for their own side or to kill him and prevent someone else from getting him.

Random fortune from 'computers'
Thus spake the master programmer:
"You can demonstrate a program for a corporate executive, but you
can't make him computer literate."
-- Geoffrey James, "The Tao of Programming"

Shadow01
Premium Member
join:2003-10-24
Wasteland

Shadow01

Premium Member

How many have the guts?

How many are willing to toss that device in the east river and walk away as a protest to this type of behavior? No excuses. You either do and feel better about your choices or don't and live with it.