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Comments on news posted 2014-06-12 12:31:31: In what's one of the bigger rulings in recent years, the 11th Circuit appeals court this week declared that police will need to get a warrant to track someone's location using cell phone location data. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

KnightAR

join:2004-04-22
San Marcos, CA

It remains to be seen

If this will change the way other courts think, There's an argument for precedent in both directions now but I this starts to skip the scale the other direction anyway.


fiosultimate

join:2014-06-09
San Antonio, TX
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

prepaid

I love that with a prepaid phone plan there are no overcharges. But also that as far as T-Mobile is concerned my phone belongs to Lebron James, thata how I registered my number under , but considering how bad the Heat is playing, I might go back to changing it to Barack Obama


Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

devil's advocate

my cell phone has a few setting on it - i can enable/disable it's GPS, and i can enable/disable it's use of the cell tower network, and just use any local WiFi. so if I can do all that manually, why should I expect privacy when I'm the one in control of those setting. are they talking about tracking data the phone company may have simply because my phone is powered, even while all GPS/Network features have been manually disabled by the owner?


fiosultimate

join:2014-06-09
San Antonio, TX
U keep on believing u are in control, that's what big brother preffers


PlusOne

@50.182.54.x
reply to KnightAR

Re: It remains to be seen

said by KnightAR:

If this will change the way other courts think, There's an argument for precedent in both directions now but I this starts to skip the scale the other direction anyway.

+1

If this was the Federal Appeals Court based in San Fran(9th circuit, the commie court), I'd say it had no chance of being upheld by the USSC. But this came out of Atlanta, so I'd say there is a chance USSC might uphold the decision if it comes to them.


davidc502

join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1

I'm good with it

I expect a reasonable amount of privacy with my service. If someone needs to be investigated as to their whereabouts then it should require a warrant to over-ride the 4th amendment.

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
reply to fiosultimate

Re: prepaid

I assume you bought the prepaid phone/SIM with cash? At a store without security cameras? And that you always refill the phone with cards paid for in cash from a similar establishment?

Additionally, people don't have your phone number stored in their contacts under your real name? And you don't call your mom, or brother, or a bunch of other family/friends on a regular enough basis that it could be easily interpolated who owns/operates your handset? Do you log in to your bank or email or other accounts that are tied to your real name from the internet connection on that prepaid phone?

It's more than easy enough to figure out who owns a cell phone even from basic metadata. A prepaid phone can only be anonymous until it is used for the first time, after that all bets are off.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

Too late...

IMO the "cat's out of the bag" and cell phones, tablets and other "toys" with a wireless connection are being used for geolocating the owner by so many entities that it's too late to stop it. The phone companies do it, Google et all do it, the gummint does it and so on.

If you don't like it don't take your "toys" with you or put them in a Faraday cage and/or remove their batteries (not just turn them "off") if you do.

99.5% of people don't seem to give a shit that they're tracked 24/7/365 so...
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
reply to Packeteers

Re: devil's advocate

you cannot disable the gps the police use


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
Reviews:
·RCN CABLE
·Comcast
reply to davidc502

Re: I'm good with it

funny how some of us don't think it is unreasonable to expect location data of a device to be given freely to the police. It's not your location they want, it's the device.
--
A sane approach to our federal budget: Ignore the tea party


linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
Reviews:
·TracFone Wireless
·CenturyLink
reply to fiosultimate

Re: prepaid

I like your sense of humor.
I like that my pay-go Tracfone does not have GPS or front facing camera. I like that I don't pay 25% state tax plus a 9% local tax ($30) for the "privilege" of owning a phone that can access the Internet and send selfies.
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
reply to clone
said by clone:

A prepaid phone can only be anonymous until it is used for the first time, after that all bets are off.

Agreed.

"Burner phones" can be anonymous for a short period of time if they're only used to communicate with other burner phones and are then disposed of. Such phones are purchased, as you describe, by some intermediary (i.e. not the end users) from multiple locations.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to davidc502

Re: I'm good with it

so when you call 911 for paramedics and then stop talking/disconnect the operator/phone company/911 provider should have to see a judge Before rolling an ambulance? and if your mom says you are a threat to your own safety, she shouldn't call the police, but hire a lawyer instead?
and if someone believes you are a threat to others the police would need a warrant, rather then using the simple tech tool to contact you?
If you really want to be less tracable turn it off, take out the battery, and stomp on it.


Flyonthewall

@206.248.154.x
In Canada you can't force the 'mentally unsound' to take their meds. That's how someone ended up taking a head off a Greyhound Bus.


Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium
join:2000-09-20
DFW
kudos:2

E911 Phase II Data and tower site data.

AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile use E911 phase II data for precision location. Verizon uses RTT (return to tower) which is a network ping type of location algorithm.
All providers know what tower and sector (of the 3) on said tower you are connected to when you have a CALEA event.
Depending on what is demanded on the Court Order, is what is passed to law enforcement. Getting precision location as well as the standard "Pen Register/Trap&Trace with Cell Site info" is more expensive to the law enforcement agency.
--
"The level of sacrifice that you give is beyond my comprehension. If the rest of us in the Country showed the level sacrifice that you do on a daily basis, we wouldn't have any of the problems we have." - Comedian Lewis Black speaking to the US troops.


davidc502

join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1
reply to tshirt

Re: I'm good with it

Once again you've totally missed the point.

Not only that... do you exist to be naysayer? Or perhaps you just say everything to the contrary?

Inquiring minds want to know. lol


youmustbenew

@70.194.100.x
If you haven't noticed, certain forum regulars will tow the line for the police state every time.

They come up with wild-eyed scenarios justifying the invasive use of new technologies for the benefit of the megalomanaical control freaks who make up the majority of our public servants and intelligence communities.

News flash kiddies: every situation isn't on the level of Jack Bauer needing to diffuse a nuke in the middle of a city. Someone's mommy calls the cops on him? Don't give a shit, get a warrant to spy or do some good, old-fashioned police work boys.

In fact, just the other day I was listening to the local police scanner and a woman's daughter called the cops on her for some petty shit. Said the mother threatened her and the cops wanted to take her for "evaluation". In America, you don't submit someone to the mental health on th word of a child. But in Amerika, you do.

To make a long story short, the mother refused to go and was taken into custody, later walked out of the hospital when the guard or whatever wasn't looking.

What did the police do? Called up the telco and they gave her coordinates to the dispatcher. No warrant, no judge, no oversight. Just told them she was x feet north of tower at location y. Done, that was easy! I was appalled, to say the least.

But as to your original question, some folks are just so bought in to the police state from watching so many CIA spy dramas and so much network news that they really live their lives in fear, every day, of something terrible happening rather than just living their lives to the fullest while they can. They're pathetic, weak little people who support the black mask of the police state because it's just too hard and scary to embrace freedom.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

2 recommendations

Just saw this

quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Obama administration has been quietly advising local police not to disclose details about surveillance technology they are using to sweep up basic cellphone data from entire neighborhoods, The Associated Press has learned.

Citing security reasons, the U.S. has intervened in routine state public records cases and criminal trials regarding use of the technology. This has resulted in police departments withholding materials or heavily censoring documents in rare instances when they disclose any about the purchase and use of such powerful surveillance equipment.

...

One well-known type of this surveillance equipment is known as a Stingray, an innovative way for law enforcement to track cellphones used by suspects and gather evidence.

»news.yahoo.com/us-pushing-local-···b7zQtDMD
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


fiosultimate

join:2014-06-09
San Antonio, TX
reply to clone

Re: prepaid

Just dont forget they sell tin foil hats by the dozen now at Target, if u mistrust the government so much, why did u vote for Obama and surrendered all of your rights??


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to davidc502

Re: I'm good with it

said by davidc502:

do you exist to be naysayer?

Yes.

said by davidc502:

Inquiring minds want to know.

for exactly that reason.

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
reply to StuartMW

Re: Just saw this

Of course! Hoovering up everyone's personal and private data is being used to keep us safe! What if terrorists have their base down the street in your sleepy suburb? How would the local-yokel police ever know about it if they couldn't monitor everyone in the neighborhood wholesale?

But remember, don't file a FOIA request about the use of tax dollars in your local burg, lest the police department get raided by U.S. Marshals before they can answer any questions about their perfectly legal and constitutional activities.


firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA
reply to PlusOne

Re: It remains to be seen

Careful there partner, you wave that patriotic flag too hard you'll knock the comcast flag over in the mud.
--
Say no to those that ‘inadvertently make false representations’.


firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

1 recommendation

reply to ArrayList

Re: I'm good with it

said by ArrayList:

funny how some of us don't think it is unreasonable to expect location data of a device to be given freely to the police. It's not your location they want, it's the device.

But then they'll what route my phone takes when I tell it to go to the store to fetch some ice cream.. Or when my phone decides to take a Sunday drive up in the mountains just to get away from all the other phones and ringing, or when my phone goes out late on a Wednesday night in a dark part of town to get some company.. or worse of all they could track my phone so they knew it was fraudulently voting at the wrong polling place right next all to the upstanding and honest corporate charters waiting in line to vote!
--
Say no to those that ‘inadvertently make false representations’.


Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to ArrayList

Re: devil's advocate

said by ArrayList:

you cannot disable the gps the police use

do you have any evidence of this? or just quoting Movies & TV shows.


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

1 recommendation

I should have been more specific. If you don't have a smartphone, you cannot disable the gps.
--
A sane approach to our federal budget: Ignore the tea party


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
reply to clone

Re: Just saw this

My sarcasm detector just pegged at 100%

Once the gummint, at every level, gets this kind of technology they're very unlikely to give it up.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


davidc502

join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1
reply to tshirt

Re: I'm good with it

said by tshirt:

...

That's funny!

cheers


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to fiosultimate

Re: prepaid

That might not last much longer when big government steps in and requires telecom carriers to obtain and verify customer ID when setting up a line of service like banks do with bank accounts.

Let's not forget how out of control the NSA is. Fortunately telecom was left out of the patriot act with customer ID requirements but that might not be much longer.
--
Stop the Comcast-Time Warner merger, I'd rather Time Warner buy out Comcast.


davidc502

join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TDS
reply to tshirt

Re: I'm good with it

said by tshirt:

so when you call 911 for paramedics and then stop talking/disconnect the operator/phone company/911 provider should have to see a judge Before rolling an ambulance? and if your mom says you are a threat to your own safety, she shouldn't call the police, but hire a lawyer instead?
and if someone believes you are a threat to others the police would need a warrant, rather then using the simple tech tool to contact you?
If you really want to be less tracable turn it off, take out the battery, and stomp on it.

BTW ---

PII%u2014personally identifiable information%u2014exists within your databases for all users, customers, vendors, and contacts and includes such things as their phone number, address, credit card number, employee status, and so on. In general, any attribute of any person is considered PII and is thus subject to privacy protection issues.
--
Cord Cutter Hauppauge DTV Tuner Card PlayOn.tv Hulu.com Netflix.com Windows Media Center Guide.
Here's how »homes.yahoo.com/news/how-to-pay-···275.html

clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
reply to IowaCowboy

Re: prepaid

It's extremely doubtful that this would happen. It's much better for the NSA to allow people like the OP to have their illusion of anonymity when, as I said, you can tell them your name is Donald Duck when you sign up for all they care. It's trivial for them to determine who owns and/or operates the handset after a call or two or an internet session.

And when people think they are anonymous, as the internet has proven time and time again, they will be as open and honest as they want to be. Why would the NSA want to quell the free flow of information from the uninformed masses who actually think they are "beating the system"?