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Comments on news posted 2014-06-19 12:07:33: Last June Comcast announced that the company's new customer gateways would be configured to start sharing user Wi-Fi with local passers by, noting that the service could be disabled and that other peoples' usage wouldn't count against your usage cap. ..

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Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One

MVM

I haven't seen it myself, but....

I've had a few calls from friends in areas where this has gone live, and they all say the "opt-out" option is confusing. Their web panel gives the option to turn off XFinity Wifi, but the wording makes it sound like they are shutting off their own internal wifi, not the free hotspot option.

Again, I haven't seen it myself yet.

jlibuszowski
Premium Member
join:2005-10-25
Hoffman Estates, IL

jlibuszowski

Premium Member

Re: I haven't seen it myself, but....

Hello,

From a security and/or legal standpoint Comcast should certainly provide more disclosure regarding this open wifi model, to their customers.

Now from strictly a marketing standpoint, this is pure genius, since now you are creating... in essence virtual open mesh networks. Just a few years ago with WiMax proliferation in some rural markets and even some business parks in Chicago, where comcast and or AT&T didn't provide high speed access, WIMAX and wireless business internet was all the range in these areas.

You may recall in early 2002 when Sprint launched a similar service using WiMax signals that were broadcast off the top of the Sears or Willis Tower in Chicago. And if you had a "pizza box" is what they commonly referred to it as (antenna) you could pick up the signal from well over 40 miles away with a clear line of sight.

The second part of it is, consider the average user I hate to say this but non (geek, telecom representative or telecom lawyer) and having an opt-in service where you can roam freely, don't have to worry about setting up passwords for guests (this is pure genius).

I still remember the time where I had to travel from Chicago all the way out to Joliet to service an Enterprise account as well as pop in to a small Greek restaurant as they were having some issues with their AT&T dsl service. Turns out they forgot the password on the account ...

The password for the router was greek



So even after we reset it and changed it. There are a lot of people that just want things to be incredibly easy, so if they can connect with their laptop/tablet and just have it connect to the internet because they are a comcast subscriber/ AT&T ect it makes perfect sense.

Best Regards,

Joseph Libuszowski
Sr. Telecom Legal Analyst
21st Century Telecomunications Initative

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

1 recommendation

cableties

Premium Member

Like a good neighbor,

wifi is there!

Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Re: Like a good neighbor,

LOL

But look at this

"noting that the service could be disabled and that other peoples' usage wouldn't count against your usage cap." I would be hooking my laptop up to the public hotspot well actually separate ap hooked to it then to my laptop. That way i can download 300 gb with out it counting against my cap .....

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Like a good neighbor,

Do you really think they are that stupid? I think you have to have an XFinity account to make use of it so they could/can track your usage on other people's APs.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Re: Like a good neighbor,

Um this is comcast were talking about here .....

I thought i read where it was public hotspot and not one you have to log in to with a paid account.

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

RARPSL to Nanaki

Member

to Nanaki
said by Nanaki:

LOL

But look at this

"noting that the service could be disabled and that other peoples' usage wouldn't count against your usage cap." I would be hooking my laptop up to the public hotspot well actually separate ap hooked to it then to my laptop. That way i can download 300 gb with out it counting against my cap .....

There is only one problem with this bypass scheme. To connect to the WiFi you have to log on. If the router can link the UserID with the fact that the router belongs to you, it might count against your cap or the router might have a black list it checks against that lists the UserIDs of the account the router was issued to and block your logon attempt.

Otherwise, I do not see how using the router's WiFi to bypass the cap differs from what would occur if you connected to a real public hotspot WiFi connection away from home.
djeremy
join:2004-07-12
San Francisco, CA

djeremy

Member

It's running on my Xfinity router

I haven't turned it off because I haven't really seen the need to since it's sandboxed from my home network. Those Xfinity routers also don't have the best range so it really doesn't broadcast all that far. I use another device for WiFi on my home network.

As far as speeds go, I'm paying for 50 down and 10 up and am getting 57 down and 11 up. They do seem to be pushing a little extra bandwidth.

We've all been in situations were cell phone reception was spotty or needed WiFi on an iPad, so I kind of like the idea of it being on. If I can help someone out without any affect on my home network, great.

nothing00
join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

nothing00

Member

Re: It's running on my Xfinity router

said by djeremy:

If I can help someone out without any affect on my home network, great.

But who you're really helping is Comcast. Because the only people that can take advantage of it are people who pay Comcast. Either via subscription or just for their WiFi service:

»wifi.comcast.com/#customer_block

Why don't you ask Comcast for 50% of what they make off of your router?

It's kind of like RedBox putting a box on your lawn and having you pay for the pleasure.
clocks11
join:2002-05-06
00000

clocks11

Member

Re: It's running on my Xfinity router

said by nothing00:

But who you're really helping is Comcast.

That's not true. Anyone can connect for free for a fixed amount of time/data. It can actually come in quite handy. Comcast subscribers get unlimited.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo

Member

Re: It's running on my Xfinity router

said by clocks11:

said by nothing00:

But who you're really helping is Comcast.

That's not true. Anyone can connect for free for a fixed amount of time/data. It can actually come in quite handy.

Is that true? If so, my tune may change slightly. What is the fixed amount?

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: It's running on my Xfinity router

said by morbo:

Is that true? If so, my tune may change slightly. What is the fixed amount?

2 - up to 1 hour sessions per month.
Obviously it's a test drive, not really the intent to create a free net. There are also pay as you go and "buy a week/month" options at fairly high prices but it would serve as temporary connection for travelers, maybe while waiting for an install or repair, or waiting for a buses for those without unlimited cell data plans.

It's the "innovation" many here beg for, and we'll see if it really finds an audience.
For Comcast it provide a sensor net as to the demand, in high demand areas they can add strand mounted hotspots.
It also gives a wide area wireless option to those who don't want/can't afford a full service cell phone plan.

Flyonthewall
@206.248.154.x

Flyonthewall

Anon

Re: It's running on my Xfinity router

I really think users that allow this should be compensated. They are providing free electricity for Comcast to make a buck from. That doesn't sound right to me, since they charge customers, when a customer assists in providing services, they should be paid too.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

Re: It's running on my Xfinity router

And it doesn't take power to run the router with one less VLAN/SSID?

catchingup
@206.51.28.x

catchingup to Flyonthewall

Anon

to Flyonthewall
said by Flyonthewall :

I really think users that allow this should be compensated. They are providing free electricity for Comcast to make a buck from. That doesn't sound right to me, since they charge customers, when a customer assists in providing services, they should be paid too.

So you're saying when you use your modem for your own use it takes zero electricity, right?
djeremy
join:2004-07-12
San Francisco, CA

djeremy to nothing00

Member

to nothing00
I don't really see it that way. Say I go somewhere, need WiFi and find an xfinity access point. I can use it because I pay Comcast for my service. It's a nice little bonus because it normally wouldn't be there.

If you're not a customer, I'm pretty sure you can also get a free hour or pay for more time if you want to.

nothing00
join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

nothing00

Member

Re: It's running on my Xfinity router

The free passes make it a lot more reasonable.

Kuro
@75.151.50.x

Kuro to djeremy

Anon

to djeremy
I would have no problem with it but there is no advantage to me having it on. If they took off the rental fee, increase or drop datacaps or maybe you can only use others if yours is on.

Kilroy
MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

Kilroy to djeremy

MVM

to djeremy
said by djeremy:

I haven't turned it off because I haven't really seen the need to since it's sandboxed from my home network.

And there is absolutely no way that someone could jump from the "free" wifi to yours? Sorry, I've been around long enough to know that nothing that is useful is 100% secure. I'm not saying I know how, I'm not saying that there is a way, what I am saying is a way may be discovered in the future and as with most security issues we won't know about it until months after the fact, if ever.

I own my own modem, so this don't affect me, but I would turn it off as I am unwilling to take a chance that Comcast did everything right from a security stand point.
djeremy
join:2004-07-12
San Francisco, CA

djeremy

Member

Re: It's running on my Xfinity router

Anyone can get into anything if they try hard enough. My home network has an SSID that publicly broadcasts. They'd probably be better off trying to get into that than trying to get through the xfinity WiFi.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to Kilroy

Member

to Kilroy
"Sorry, I've been around long enough to know that nothing that is useful is 100% secure."

Then you better get off the internet all together if that's the reason for not wanting this service turned on.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Regulatory Capture

Comcast has paid off so many state and federal lawmakers that it is unlikely that they will pass any laws to provide relief to consumers from theft of their resources. Furthermore Comcast customers cannot file a class action suit because the fascist supreme court found that including language in a service provider TOS agreements prohibiting class action suits to be legal. Unless there is a ground swell of media attention relief from this scheme, is unlikely. If Comcast was ethical they would provide the modem at no charge and give the customer a discount if the customer allows Comcast to use their Wifi for public hotspot service. This is simply theft of their customers resources.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72

Member

Re: Regulatory Capture

It's not theft if they overprovision and are not impacting your service.

It's sad that a VAST majority of high speed users (say over 20 Mbps) rarely ever use that speed--and pay up, so it's just going to "waste".

I don't particularly like it for security purposes, however the idea is wonderful, especially if you want to lower your caps and are somewhat stationary.

I wonder if people will try to get around caps in concentrated areas if usage counts against your cap. So this can lead to forms of abuse.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: Regulatory Capture

said by elefante72:

I wonder if people will try to get around caps in concentrated areas if usage counts against your cap. So this can lead to forms of abuse.

It does/will count against your cap, there is a space for the WiFi usage in the current version of the meter.
clocks11
join:2002-05-06
00000

clocks11

Member

It's not all bad

I wouldn't have a grip against Comcast doing this if A. it doesn't slow my own speeds and B. They reduce the cost or provide the modem/router for free.

There are some positives about this. I am noticing the free Xfinity wifi all over my neck of the woods.

nadams5755
join:2001-11-13
San Jose, CA

nadams5755

Member

Re: It's not all bad

there was an interesting discussion about it last month on NANOG, it seems that this service uses its own bandwidth (as i understand it).

don't forget to look at the responses. comcast does have a PR nightmare though. »mailman.nanog.org/piperm ··· 436.html
clocks11
join:2002-05-06
00000

clocks11

Member

Re: It's not all bad

I know it supposedly uses it's own bandwidth, but if you are on an already over-crowded node, free wifi isn't going to help the situation. Not everyone gets their full caps.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to clocks11

Premium Member

to clocks11
said by clocks11:

They reduce the cost or provide the modem/router for free.

That MAY happen, a user here reported getting contacted by phone, with CC willing to give a discount if he turned the public side back on. it would probably ONLY be offer if not enough subs had it on, and demand was high with strand mount not available yet (no permit or overhead lines) since you pay the same for the rented gateway giving you a discount doesn't make as much sense as say a free bump to the cap (you share, they share)
shmerl
join:2013-10-21

2 edits

shmerl

Member

Customers aren't stuck.

They can use their own WiFi router. But making it opt out rather than opt in is not proper indeed. Let them make it more attractive if they want to do this. For example, users who opt in into this program could get extra bandwidth for the lower price, or some other incentives.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

1 recommendation

BiggA

Premium Member

Re: Customers aren't stuck.

Exactly. It sucks to pay $10/mo for their crappy router in the first place, when you can own your own. I own all my own equipment except the CableCard in my TiVo.
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

1 recommendation

elray

Member

Copper Pot, Coax Kettle

Seems to me if Comcast actually felt like they needed to dignify Frontier's nonsense with a response, all they would need to do is illustrate that their shared gateway delivers 15Mbps or more to the sharee, while Frontier struggles to deliver 3mbps direct.
DeLiver3
Premium Member
join:2004-09-01
Cincinnatus, NY
Actiontec F2250
(Software) pfSense

DeLiver3

Premium Member

Re: Copper Pot, Coax Kettle

said by elray:

Seems to me if Comcast actually felt like they needed to dignify Frontier's nonsense with a response, all they would need to do is illustrate that their shared gateway delivers 15Mbps or more to the sharee, while Frontier struggles to deliver 3mbps direct.

That would require Comcast proving that Frontier is struggling to deliver 3 Mbps. They can't do it.

bigballer
@205.214.216.x

bigballer

Anon

Will comcast reimburse me for the electricity used?

Electricity aint cheap. The average price of electricity is $0.11.

I see no incentive for someone turning this feature on

•••••••••••••••••••
big_e
join:2011-03-05

big_e

Member

Pot kettle black.

I remember it was just a few years ago, that Frontier was sending out post cards to their ex-Verizon customers telling them that their free verizon provided modems/wireless gateways were obsolete and they must contact customer service to get a new one.

Buried in the fine print was that this new modem/wireless gateway would cost $15/month. Enough people didn't take the bait so in some test markets they started assessing customers with free verizon provided modem/gateways a 7 dollar per month modem support fee in lieu of a modem rental fee.

Frontier should simply keep their mouth shut as they lack any moral authority to chastise other ISPs about bundling unwanted things into their equipment.

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
United State

linicx

Premium Member

Re: Pot kettle black.

All cable and telephone companies lack morals and have no voice as neither is human. All the board appointed voices complain about each other in print for attention. No one company is better than, or less culpable than, another when it comes to pointing fingers.

Those who complain the loudest usually have skin in the game, pay outrageous fees for poor service.

As to the wordsmith, ROTFLOL. He is as amusing.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

1 recommendation

jmn1207

Premium Member

$?

How is Netflix going to afford all of these potential wifi customers?

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: $?

There won't be any.
this (due to pricing) won't add huge numbers of outside customers and those it does will be made up by cable customer who don't use this.
This just extending cable users Wi-Fi radius from "50 feet from MY modem" to "near any and gateway or strand mount.

I say Cable user because Comcast is not the only member of the Cablecos who agreed to do this, just the first to go nationwide with it. TWC had many of the early hotspots in the NE, eventually cable users will be able to roam almost everywhere cable is deployed.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207

Premium Member

Re: $?

If some areas experience any congestion from higher Netflix demand as a result of Comcast making wifi available to the public, it is Netflix's responsibility to ensure that the required solutions to resolve these issues are met. The way I understand it, Comcast is expected to be able to collect money for any customers using the wifi access and from Netflix. They don't really have to improve the congestion either, but everybody definitely needs to pay Comcast. Got it.
8744675
join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA

1 recommendation

8744675

Member

I want retransmission payments!

If they want to use my gateway, located on my premisis, using my electricity, to offer free wi-fi to other customers, they are going to have to pay me, just like they have to pay property and rental for their other equipment. There's no free ride, Comcast!

If they were a nice company I might think it was cool and help them out. Being the evil blood sucking company that they are, not a chance of any help from me!

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: I want retransmission payments!

You have the right to opt out/provide your own modem/discontinue service.
kmcmurtrie
join:2006-04-18
Sunnyvale, CA

2 recommendations

kmcmurtrie

Member

Urban noise

I'm not a fan of all of these XFinity modems bands clogging up the WiFi spectrum in urban areas. Comcast is essentially taking over public bandwidth by flooding it with their own traffic for private use.

••••

Anno
@68.62.236.x

Anno

Anon

Not unlimited

said by clocks11:

said by nothing00:

But who you're really helping is Comcast.

That's not true. Anyone can connect for free for a fixed amount of time/data. It can actually come in quite handy. Comcast subscribers get unlimited.

This is incorrect, Comcast users don't get unlimited. They couldn't do that because in capped/billing areas users would just hop on the Xfinity one instead of they own wifi to use the data to avoid the 300GB limit.

Sadly the Comcast WiFi does count against your usage the last I checked.

Now it doesn't count against yours if another user loggs onto yours BUT it does still count against them.

If they change this maybe I will just start getting on my neighbors public xfinity one and dl to avoid caps hah

CST
@76.103.77.x

1 recommendation

CST

Anon

Caps argument null

So, Comcast claims they need caps to prevent over-utilization of the network, but then they start encouraging more use via free Wi-Fi???
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom

Member

Re: Caps argument null

And doubling speeds. Though I guess it's not really a contradiction, Comcast could probably afford to offer 1Gbit and provide 100% continental wifi coverage using drones if there was a 2GB cap with a $25 charge for each additional 1GB.

catchingup
@206.51.28.x

catchingup to CST

Anon

to CST
said by CST :

So, Comcast claims they need caps to prevent over-utilization of the network, but then they start encouraging more use via free Wi-Fi???

It was pretty obvious that that argument for caps was completely bogus. It was only fools that kept repeating it over again as if repeating it would make it true. If they really wanted to deal with congestion in the areas where nodes were reaching capacity they would simply stop increasing the speed tiers and/or throttle peoples speeds at peak hours. Caps do NOT prevent congestion.

OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

OSUGoose

Member

Um

"the costs of potentially needing to run the fiber connection from the junction box on the street into their homes"

Since when is comcast running fiber for residential connections.

maxbrando
Premium Member
join:2014-06-01

maxbrando

Premium Member

Re: Um

Since they started offering extreme 305 in select areas.

Pegasus
Premium Member
join:2008-01-04
united state

Pegasus

Premium Member

LOL Really frontier.

This made me LOL

"The lack of consumer choice is disrespectful"

Really frontier. i don't even have to explain why that made me giggle. If you know frontier you will get it.
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Really?

Frontier criticizing any other ISP for anything is laughable. They can't even upgrade their 100% chicken wire and bubblegum based network.
neufuse
join:2006-12-06
James Creek, PA

neufuse

Member

just dont get a gateway then

I'm going to stretch this by saying you opted in when you asked for "Comcast WiFi" as part of your deal... you have the choice to get a device that doesn't have wifi built in or one that does. Most people just take what they hand them, but nothings stopping you from saying I don't want a gateway device, I want an eMTA or plain modem

Leafsley
@64.237.51.x

Leafsley

Anon

I'm just surprised that...

Comcast has not yet found a way to embed Bitcoin mining software into every router for some additional profit to them.

Doug Huffman
join:2007-07-27
Washington Island, WI

Doug Huffman

Member

Open Wi-Fi Copyright: Primer for Network Operators. EFF big fan of open WiFi

»www.eff.org/wp/open-wi-f ··· perators

»openwireless.org/
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