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Comments on news posted 2014-06-30 14:03:52: Previously, we have discussed a number of instances in Kansas City where those installing Google Fiber were "butchering" the homeowner’s property. ..

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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

day and age

In this day and age, you'd think that if someone's personal property is being disturbed, they'd want to contact those people FIRST and get the best way to deploy the fiber causing the least expensive (to fix) disturbance.. Fiber optic lines do not have to run in straight paths for miles anymore-- not even the areal cables.

nevertheless, it's a problem many outside the GF build would love to have..
as opposed to being raked over the coals held upside down or bent over on subscription fees for what can barely be considered broadband in the 21st Century (just about anywhere AT&T and CenturyTel deploy broadband)

with some training, these problems are minimized.. many muni towns/counties have maps and hotlines to coordinate utility builds on where to dig and where not to dig. with some luck, these are digitized and updated regularly. Verizon was "allowed" to do many shady things in the early days of FIOS building (stop traffic, install new poles, install in backyards, route wires over residential roofs, etc), that is until the cable companies cried foul.. nowadays, you barely hear a peep ever since collusion became the new normal.
ITGeeks
join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

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Re: Contractors

And you estimate that number of customers how???? Free customers don't count as they're not paying for services.
ITGeeks

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It is with Google since the City will take on any and all legal expenses that arise from any law suits.
ITGeeks

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That is true. But their contract with the cities state that the City is on the hook for any and all legal expenses. So KC would be suing themselves.
ITGeeks

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Who cares that EPB had 80years to build out. Google is no different. They want to be a utility or want to use the ROW then they should have to comply with any and all laws and rules that are there and shouldn't be paying their way in with clauses that state the cities are on the hook for legal costs. But then there are people that think this is great and let the cities pay for it since after all- It's Google and a learning curve. If some new company came in and did the same thing they'd be on the hook just as TWC or AT&T or any other company would be.
ITGeeks

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Re: Fairly predictable...

If you're name is Google yep! That's why www.scroogle.com is there.

DeathK
Premium Member
join:2002-06-16
Cincinnati, OH

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Premium Member

to tshirt

Re: Eye witness account

said by tshirt:

There are methods for CHECKING the accuracy

Yes, and like you said it's expensive, which is why they won't do it. The cost of hitting a line every now and then and repairing it will be a fraction of the cost of re-surveying everything over the entire installation area. I can see how it would be absolutely prudent for a project like you mention. For burying fiber lines, not so much. I'm sure the records aren't that inaccurate anyway.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

said by DeathK:

cost of hitting a line every now and then and repairing it will be a fraction of....

General Motors USED to feel that way too.

MontyH
@71.94.49.x

MontyH

Anon

Complaints

It's most certainly not the case that competitors are a source of 'complaints'.
rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT

rahvin112 to smcallah

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to smcallah

Re: Contractors

Any sort of linear excavation is going to hit utility lines even when marked. It's not possible to miss everything even if you spend huge engineering money on locating services. The older the area the more likely. This is standard knowledge in the construction industry and a fact of life. The contractor is void of any liability if they had the utilities marked and followed the local laws for digging across or adjacent to markings in every state I'm aware of.

Low pressure gas lines (frequently plastic) are a breeze to fix and there is very little risk of the gas back flowing into the house when you are dealing with an open trench.
rahvin112

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Re: Eye witness account

Hitting utilities when digging trenches is unavoidable. Even potholing every 100' you still don't know what the line does between those 100'. This is a fact of construction. As long as the contractors are following locating laws in the jurisdiction they face no legal liability in every state I've encountered.

Even when following all the rules and having everything located they are still going to hit stuff. I was observing construction one time where a trackhoe was excavating a 30' deep sewer trench, they had a power line marked and were digging parallel to the line and exposing it as they went per local law. At one point the line zigzaged for no apparent reason and the hoe caught the line with a tooth on the bucket and severed it before the operator even knew he had it. Even with perfect marking you will have a very small percent of hits and marking is rarely perfect.

bbbc
join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica

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Re: Contractors

said by jap :

Yeah, but brains and experience cost more.

Yep, good ol' America. Let's get the lowest common denominator to place crap in the ground. I'm sure glad Google didn't hire all those union scoundrels who make too much money.
onthecake
join:2003-08-08
Kansas City, MO

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Re: day and age

Most of the work I have seen is in the right of way/easement. If you have personal property in that area (sprinkler) then your SOL. I have seen them come back through over the last 3 weeks and fix neighbor's sprinkler heads, underground dog fencing, and of course their driveways that were torn up.

They have been messy but from what I can tell they are trying to fix the issues they have been creating once they are done running their conduit.
APG
Premium Member
join:2007-01-13

APG

Premium Member

Everything old is new again

Why is it that every Google Fiber article and comments section reads like somebody dredged up an old article about FiOS and just substituted Google at the appropriate places?

It's all the same old deal... everybody seemed to expect FiOS to just suddenly materialize in their neighborhood. Google has even less experience at building a physical network than Verizon... it's not the type of project where you hire people in the morning and put them to work by lunch.

I expect the future to be much the same.

Back in the early FiOS days, everybody on this forum was certain that when the miracle of FiOS passed a house, the resident would be so excited by superfast internet that they'd stand in front of the house waving money until someone hooked them up. Except, of course, few actually cared. I work in cable customer service... not once in all those years did any customer leaving for FiOS or coming back from FiOS ever mention internet speed as the reason. Not once, ever. Not that many are going to care about Google's speed either... if I were ordered to sell two upgrades a week from 25mbs service to 100mbs at $10 for the upgrade, I wouldn't be able to make the goal.

And I'm sure everybody expects that Google is going to provide 100% happy customer service experience even though Google's experience with toll-free customer service and tech support is pretty much nil. It can't be that hard, can it?

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to rahvin112

Premium Member

to rahvin112

Re: Eye witness account

said by rahvin112:

Even potholing every 100' you still don't know what the line does between those 100'. .

That's just the start for this project it will follow all the other procedures including trench beside and hand dig.
It is possible to do it right.

Ganthet
join:2009-08-05
Kansas City, MO

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The break on my street happened back in May. The gas company told me the break was pretty minor. They did evac a few houses as a precaution. Most of us never even lost service.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

1 edit

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Re: Contractors

said by ITGeeks:

And you estimate that number of customers how???? Free customers don't count as they're not paying for services.

A KC city IT employee calculated it based on household count and % registered.

»kcrag.com/viewtopic.php? ··· #p532235

Sounds like a reasonable approach to at least get an idea, which estimates 88K have registered so far and it doesn't include 400+ buildings (actuals released by Google) where building owners come to agreements w/out need for individuals to register - potentially another 15K+. This is KCMO and KCK only, before registrations have started in the burbs.
existenz

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Re: Everything old is new again

said by APG:

And I'm sure everybody expects that Google is going to provide 100% happy customer service experience even though Google's experience with toll-free customer service and tech support is pretty much nil. It can't be that hard, can it?

Google did build up full tech support for Google Fiber - toll-free #, forums, live chat, physical local stores, etc. Support is surprisingly pretty good for being new at this, especially live chat. The phone reps seem to actually be capable of deductive reasoning and have problem solving skills - no script reading. Left hand knows what right hand is doing when handing off and they don't ask for your phone number a bunch of times like others do.

Is good for now but to be fair larger ISPs have millions of customers to deal with.
marctronixx
join:2003-09-08
Los Angeles, CA

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Re: Dear Google

Haha yes, and I'll rent the back hoe!
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray

Member

Nothing unusual or unexpected

There are always blunders when you have contractors involved, and sometimes even the much-lauded in-house union personnel - one need only look at the typical rats-nest that passes for copper in our iLECs to observe the typical "quality" that organizers boast of.

The difference with Google, is that they extorted the municipalities to indemnify them against their own neglect.

Must be nice when your legal competition is subject to the government boot at their neck, while you are exempt and free to cherry-pick your turf, all the while Washington turns a blind eye to potential anti-trust violations.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

From what I understand City of KCMO has offered other ISP's same terms they gave Google as long as they provide free service to public areas of each neighborhood as Google does, not sure about also requiring a similar 'free' home service as well. I don't have details but Mayor alluded to offering same terms if providing similar service.
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

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Re: Contractors

An evil plot? I'd happily let any of those mentioned companies tear a hole in my walls for 1 gig service. But they won't, won't they?
stingray71
join:2014-04-28

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Re: Dear Google

Ditto

Gimli
Premium Member
join:2006-01-03
l5a2o4

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Re: Contractors

Well - i would say half the time the locates did not locate correctly . You kknow how many times that I have received locates that were done by a lazy ass guy that went from outdated engineering plans to locate utilities. its not always as cut and dry as it seems - excuse the pun.
lol
dra6o0n
join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON

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If you were to get Canadian Contractors, then expect a pricy work but professional work at least.

Google must be hiring dirt cheap contractors for the wiring work.
Or cheap foreign workers like Mexicans or Philippines.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Have been to most of the major Canadian cities. Agree that Canadian standards are quite a bit higher than most of US - and you pay for it.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

Yeah, but everything is so much nicer up there... Coming back south, the US looks like a dump in comparison...
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