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Comments on news posted 2014-07-14 14:13:14: The war of words between Netflix and Verizon continued last week, with Verizon announcing they'd conducted a thorough review of their network and found absolutely no possible cause for the Netflix streaming issues their customers are experiencing. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


anonomeX

@71.207.157.x

Darn...

where's a video rental store when you need one?!


IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

6 recommendations

Figures...

Despite Verizon's pushback and pretzel twisting, the truth is coming out. Thanks Netflix!


buzz_4_20

join:2003-09-20
Limestone, ME

1 edit

So here we are

Both companies waving their d**ks around and only customers are suffering.


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

6 recommendations

reply to IPPlanMan

Re: Figures...

Yeah, Verizon's statement last week was really an amazingly transparent smoke and mirrors attempt. Glad they were directly called out on it.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to buzz_4_20

Re: So here we are

Intercon agreement? My routes are still the same. No changes, but also no congestion PQ issues in my area.

Unless someone walks into the intercon com closet and looks at the traffic flows, or ports this is all smoke and mirrors.

We will never truly know if it's the CDN cheaping out,(somewhat likely) or Verizon standing fast at the border (very likely).

Financially speaking Verizon has the most to gain (like retrans) by forming the argument and twisting the truth. The CDN has little to gain by holding back ports, but if there is a balance contract, maybe they say no to paying and Verizon simply lets the intercon ports suck wind (VERY VERY LIKELY).

Since Verizon is an ISP and they charge out the ying yang for internet, they also have a duty to provide competent network management, and fix flows if they are getting continually throttled. Netflix provides the data, so what's next?

The $50k in in ports is mice nuts compared to the BILLIONS they are raking in.

brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

Netflix

They should just say pay us $5 million a year and we will stream to you
with no problems.


Plus One

@50.182.54.x
reply to IPPlanMan

Re: Figures...

said by IPPlanMan:

Despite Verizon's pushback and pretzel twisting, the truth is coming out. Thanks Netflix!

LOL. Netflix is as likely lying as is Verizon. Until Netflix turns over their network statistics to a 3rd party, we shouldn't trust them either.

dfxmatt

join:2007-08-21
Evanston, IL
reply to IPPlanMan
the usual people who trot out to defend verizon are noticeably quiet today. surprise surprise.


Plus One

@50.182.54.x
said by dfxmatt:

the usual people who trot out to defend verizon are noticeably quiet today. surprise surprise.

»Re: Figures...


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

Netflix streaming has been superb for me lately..

on FiOS. I've been getting SuperHD within a few seconds to 30 seconds from the time I start streaming a title. I've been getting SuperHD any time of the day, any day of the week lately.


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11
As a very New Netflix user I was pleasently suprised by the quality I am getting on FIOS.

Hob


Anno

@68.62.236.x

1 recommendation

reply to elefante72

Re: So here we are

said by elefante72:

Intercon agreement? My routes are still the same. No changes, but also no congestion PQ issues in my area.

Unless someone walks into the intercon com closet and looks at the traffic flows, or ports this is all smoke and mirrors.

We will never truly know if it's the CDN cheaping out,(somewhat likely) or Verizon standing fast at the border (very likely).

Financially speaking Verizon has the most to gain (like retrans) by forming the argument and twisting the truth. The CDN has little to gain by holding back ports, but if there is a balance contract, maybe they say no to paying and Verizon simply lets the intercon ports suck wind (VERY VERY LIKELY).

Since Verizon is an ISP and they charge out the ying yang for internet, they also have a duty to provide competent network management, and fix flows if they are getting continually throttled. Netflix provides the data, so what's next?

The $50k in in ports is mice nuts compared to the BILLIONS they are raking in.

I have access to a few peering locations for a few providers, Comcast, BHN and AT&T included and let me just say it's a sad state.

I won't single any provider out specifically but in some cases.

CDN side 40GE, ISP, 10GE
CDN 100GE, ISP 10GE

In other cases it's:
CDN 10GE, ISP 10GE, CDN willing to give another port, ISP wants to be paid for it.

Situations of course exist where in almost all of these money changes hands but in my opinion the ISP should be the one paying, they are the ones selling "internet" to customers, when they don't have internet, they have "intranet". Comcast doesn't reach globally, Level 3 and Cogentco do. Without these peers these residential ISPs have NOTHING to offer customers. Just like Comcast and others want Netflix to pay them for putting BW load on the residential network, I think the peers are fair if they charged the ISP for the same thing, but instead it's other way around and even if the tables turned the customers end up paying more. The fact is in a lot of cases the CDN are willing to provide the links/connections free and the ISPs still don't want, they want money... CDN makes money from the content owner.

Now yes, sometimes they double dip too but who doesn't these days.

Verizon is the guilty one here. They blame netflix for who they pick as a provider but netflix simply picked a global provider for simplicity and costs. Does Verizon offer global service? Nope! Who would you pick if you had a global company? a global provider or 20 small ones that want to be greedy?

sides14

join:2007-11-29
Glendale, AZ

4 recommendations

reply to Plus One

Re: Figures...

Verizons release last week said it was all about peering (34% egress utilzization and 100% ingress utilization). That is a Verizon issue since they haven't upgraded their peering agreement.

Bob61571

join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL
reply to anonomeX

Re: Darn...

Family Video, 775 stores in 19 states, largest chain still left out there.

»www.familyvideo.com/about_us.php

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

2 recommendations

reply to sides14

Re: Figures...

Not really, peering points - like arguments - have at least two sides.

O1OOO1O

join:2005-12-23
Lewisville, TX

2 recommendations

Still a good read on this topic


Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

3 recommendations

reply to elefante72

Re: So here we are

Why pay $50k in ports when you can negotiate with a content provider to actually pay you millions?

That is quite a turnaround for the profit hungry ISP that is holding their subscribers hostage.

existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Google Fiber

1 recommendation

reply to Plus One

Re: Figures...

The bottom line is that Netflix performs well on many ISPs and not on others. ISPs can choose not to optimize network/peers to certain services but then they are telling their customers that they (ISP) will choose what sites will work or not. They may as well come out with a statement that they will not help video services compete with their own offerings and get it over with.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

1 recommendation

reply to elefante72

Re: So here we are

Actually, they all have a stake...

NetFlix is deploying their own CDN and hence paying transit fees directly now - the less the better from their perspective.

Transit providers are / were selling transit to NetFlix, it is to their advantage to provide the transit with the least amount of cost (i.e. paid peering).

Verizon / Comcast wouldn't mind picking up the transit business and eliminating the middle guy.

It's all about money, and like another poster already stated, its the customers that are the ones getting jerked around...


pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

reply to Plus One

Re: Figures...

I disagree, Netflix has a company history of being honest and open. Verizon as well as Comcast etc have a company history of being dishonest, and self serving.

I'm not saying Netflix isn't out to make a buck, but I think they are a much more honest and honorable company that Verizon/Comcast any day.


anonomeX

@71.207.157.x
reply to Bob61571

Re: Darn...

I never much liked the chain stores. The mom&pop store I joined back in the '80s called it quits 20+ years ago (killed by the big chains, I guess), before DVDs even made the scene. I still have the Laserdisc player I bought there... don't much use it, of course.

I miss that little shop.


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to elefante72

Re: So here we are

said by elefante72:

The $50k in in ports is mice nuts compared to the BILLIONS they are raking in.

As compared to Netflix with 45 million streaming customers @ $10 a month(what they are aiming for) =$450 million per month= $5.4 billion a year....
Neither of these companies are non-profits, both needs to pay their share of the costs.


RockCake
Premium
join:2005-07-12
Woodbridge, VA
reply to aaronwt

Re: Netflix streaming has been superb for me lately..

Damn, lucky you. It's still shitty for me. Can I come over to watch at your house?


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

1 recommendation

reply to AVonGauss

Re: Figures...

said by AVonGauss:

Not really, peering points - like arguments - have at least two sides.

Good point. When is Verizon going to pay for Cogent's upgrades? Verizon's numbers show that they're clearly a subscriber to Cogent's network.


chip89
Premium
join:2012-07-05
Independence, OH
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to Anno

Re: So here we are

yep even Sprint is better outside of being unlimited since they are a Ter 1 nexflix can get to there phone with out paying since it will stay on the Sprint network. With Verizon once nexflix gets to Verizon from the Ter 1 Pay up, if you want it to get to the phone!

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to nothing00

Re: Figures...

Unless we're looking at different "charts", Verizon's numbers do not detail Cogent specifically. Regardless, I'd be willing to bet a very large sum of cash that Cogent sends Verizon far more data than Verizon sends Cogent.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to sides14
Exactly. Verizon's own report used misleading words to make it sound like it was Netflix's fault, but when you read the report, it's pretty clear that it's interconnection- and we know Verizon was the one holding up upgrades to those...

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

1 edit
reply to dfxmatt
Since I'm probably on "your list", its also possible that its less a desire to defend Verizon (or Comcast) but rather a desire to dispel the junk propaganda NetFlix has been putting out more so the last six months...

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to pumpkinhead7
said by pumpkinhead7:

I disagree, Netflix has a company history of being honest and open.

Honest and open?

Tell that to the DVD subscribers who found themselves throttled.

Tell that to the California taxpayers who are told he's a Republican.

rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House
reply to Plus One
said by Plus One :

said by IPPlanMan:

Despite Verizon's pushback and pretzel twisting, the truth is coming out. Thanks Netflix!

LOL. Netflix is as likely lying as is Verizon. Until Netflix turns over their network statistics to a 3rd party, we shouldn't trust them either.

In what context? Everyone-- including Verizon-- knows Verizon is letting their peers saturate, and we all know why.