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Comments on news posted 2014-07-21 08:14:11: Multichannel News has uncovered an FCC filing that suggests TiVO and Comcast are working together on a new set top box that would eliminate the CableCARD. ..


Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

Where is the promised gateway?

Years ago I read a number of articles that indicated the cable industry and equipment manufactures were working together to provide a gateway that would allow any television with a QAM tuner to received those channels the customer is subscribing to. Where is it? DirectTV is moving in that direction with the SWIM distribution system. I guess the Cable Industry just cannot resist charging subscribers for unnecessary STB's. The cable service providers sure cooked up the DTA fast so they could charge basic cable subscribers for additional outlets. I have a Panasonic NTSC DVR that could record any NTSC Channel until Comcast went all digital. How much will the cable industry try and gouge subscribers for each connected TiVO they own.


Napsterbater
Meh
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-28
Milledgeville, GA
Reviews:
·Xcelerate Broadb..
·Windstream
said by Mr Matt:

DirectTV is moving in that direction with the SWIM distribution system.

Citation? Because I don't see how SWIM (Single Wire Multiswitch) possibly means they are working on distribution in the home without the need for a set top box.

Unless your talking about RVU but that requires a TV from a very small list that is RVU capable.
--
IPv6 Sage - ipv6.he.net/certification/scoresheet.php?pass_name=Napsterbater
www.napshome.net

ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
The device he's talking about is like the one DISH has- its one box for 2 TVs. They run a coax to the 2nd tv. Just a dual tuner STB.


NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

1 recommendation

It's a trap

Right now by law comcast and any other cable provider have to provide you a cable card if requested. That allows any company to enter the market as long as they meet the specs of cablecard. How some TV's have this ability built in etc.

If Comcast uses this to circumvent cablecards then they can control who gets onto their networks via licenses. See it as how DVDCSS caused »www.kaleidescape.com/ all kinds of issues even though they got a license and met the specs etc.

The only reason they're working with Tivo is they know Tivo would be their worst enemy if they tried to shut them out.

big_e

join:2011-03-05

Customer owned equipment and outlet fees

Despite it being 100% customer owned equipment, watch Comcast continue to charge the owners of these boxes a $7 - $10 dollar per month additional digital outlet fee. They aren't going to give up that revenue stream.

Meanwhile with Netflix and Amazon Prime, you don't have to pay extra for additional boxes.


ieolus
Support The Clecs

join:2001-06-19
Danbury, CT
reply to NOCMan

Re: It's a trap

Agreed.

It isn't even as bad as it used to be (so I've heard) on hooking up a cablecard. Almost every cable company has a dedicated staff that handles cablecard installations, and they actually know what they are doing.
--
"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp

TazExprez

join:2002-04-27
Yonkers, NY
reply to big_e

Re: Customer owned equipment and outlet fees

With NetFlix you pay $12 if you want 4 simultaneous streams and $8 if you want 2. I don't know if Amazon Prime has a limit on simultaneous streams.


Flyonthewall

@206.248.154.x

3 recommendations

reply to NOCMan

Re: It's a trap

TIVO customers would be their worst enemy. They'll probably figure a way to ensure it forces you to watch ads too. Why work with them otherwise? Clearly another revenue stream in the making.


DaleQ

@66.193.32.x

My FCC feedback

Here is my feedback sent this morning to FCC...

Good morning,

I'm writing in opposition to proceeding number. 10-91
»apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/view?id=6018012343

The only thing that keeps cable companies remotely honest in regards to set-top-box hardware is the threat of a competitive product. CableCard is a standard that somewhat ensures a level playing field for manufacturers to introduce their own products.

Therefore, it's ironic that Tivo wants to enter a special agreement with Comcast to side-step this industry standard for a privately licensed alternative. Tivo would have been forced out of business many years ago if it were not for CableCard. I assume that Tivo is doing this to gain an advantage over other competitors.

I use a SiliconDust HDHomeRun 'Prime' which uses a CableCard. I was forced to replace my perfectly working 'plain' HDHomeRun because the FCC lacked the mettle necessary to deny cable company's request to encrypt even local broadcast channels on 'limited basic' cable. If the FCC approves this application, I'll probably have to *hope* I'll have the opportunity to purchase yet another box to work with the new pseudo-standard. Of course, SiliconDust will have to kiss the ring on Comcast/Tivo's hand to be allowed to license the new pseudo-standard. Tivo will not likely agree (since direct competitor) and Comcast is probably disinclined to agree unless it's some sort of bone to throw to FTC as a TW merger 'concession'.

Again, please vote against 10-91.


atcotr

@65.60.144.x
reply to Mr Matt

Re: Where is the promised gateway?

There are two massive incentives for keeping the a box for every TV system. They get to charge box fees for pad revenue. Second the copyright industry gets an aneurysm over fair use made possible by any kind of uncrippled video output. I predict that this downloadable security scheme will be nothing but a way to upgrade existing boxes that have been in service since 2002.


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric

Why are cablecards dying?

The answer is simple. Cablecards require you to purchase your own hardware. I have a cablecard setup at home. HDHomerunPrime, Windows Media Center Server, a couple Xbox 360 extenders, and Comcast Preferred Digital package. All total, with cable internet, I spend $100 a month. If I didn't have this hardware, I would be spending about $140 (probably more) for the same capabilities. The issue is that all these devices cost money.

My parents have a rented Comcast X1 and love it. I tried to turn them onto the Tivo, but they didn't like the idea of spending $300+ on a new Tivo system when what they have now "just works" and is fully supported by Comcast.

Comcast really wants to cash in on eliminating the cablecard. I certainly hope that they don't do that. The cablecard setup saves me a ton and I will never go back to the Comcast craptastic boxes they sell.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

Three possible options

From:
The Post-CableCARD Path
Which One Will Comcast Take?

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - July 21, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/blog/baumin···h/382628
quote:
After speaking to some parties with knowledge on how they might tackle this one (with FCC waivers and other potential regulatory requirements notwithstanding) here are just three possible options:

-To develop a new, proprietary downloadable security system for an all-IP video product. While Comcast is already delivering a full linear IP simulcast for its Xfinity On Campus product, that rollout is limited and small in scale. It’s not known when Comcast would be ready to pull that off on a massive scale, but it's not expected to occur anytime soon.

- Combine a version of security used today for Digital Transport Adapters (DTAs) with an IP-based video security system that could be used in hybrid (QAM/IP) TiVo boxes sold at retail. The idea would be to use DTA security, which is already deployed on a broad basis, to secure linear QAM video, and use downloadable security on the IP side for VOD and other video services that can be delivered over IP. The good news is that DTA security works, as it’s in use on tens of millions of devices. So-called “universal” DTAs work on digital cable networks based on the Arris/Motorola or Cisco Systems platforms, which is another plus. But the approach might be tricky to implement in boxes with DVR functionality due to the limitations of the current FCC ban on set-tops with integrated security.

- A new interoperable, downloadable conditional access system that works with the legacy security systems. But one industry source views this possible path as an “outlier” that’s fraught with legal and contractual issues, because it would likely require full support from Cisco and Arris.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to NOCMan

Re: It's a trap

I read about that device you linked and its the one I think that even though it can back up a movie you still have to put in the disk or buy it from their store, It will not just serve the movie without some proof of legit copy on hand.
--
Filan - Aurin Spellslinger - Pago - Team Legacy


antennaguy

@98.243.145.x

Don't worry! Be happy!

I have an antenna. No cable box. No cableCARD. No monthly fees. See this smile??? ))))

cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:9
reply to Napsterbater

Re: Where is the promised gateway?

I think he's talking about "DECA", which is how the whole-home stuff works. (it can run over ethernet, but they hate doing that.)

cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:9
reply to NOCMan

Re: It's a trap

... unless they use a completely different system, say, IPTV (like Uverse)

(and one can do in software what the CC does "in hardware" -- it's just a cpu in a tiny card. It was once called DFAST, but I didn't follow how that went.)


fiosultimate

join:2014-06-09
San Antonio, TX
reply to antennaguy

Re: Don't worry! Be happy!

U mean u dont let tv control u?be careful comcast doesnt find out

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to Mr Matt

Re: Where is the promised gateway?

The gateway would be a good idea so that devices can move from provider to provider. You can mourn the loss of Clear QAM I guess, but don't complain about NTSC. NTSC had to go. I'd much rather have 70 HD's and no analog than 20 HD's and analog. That's just the reality of it since analog is a complete capacity pig.

ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
reply to cramer
DirecTV Whole House DVR runs over your coax and HSI.

ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
reply to NOCMan

Re: It's a trap

Your law is only a "rule" set forth by the FCC. They do not make laws, they make rules that are often over turned in court when taken there.

ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
reply to big_e

Re: Customer owned equipment and outlet fees

And why not? DirecTV, Dish, AT&T, VZ FiOS and every other TV provider does it.


jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1
reply to Flyonthewall

Re: It's a trap

said by Flyonthewall :

TIVO customers would be their worst enemy. They'll probably figure a way to ensure it forces you to watch ads too. Why work with them otherwise? Clearly another revenue stream in the making.

This was the first thing that came to mind when I read the story's title. They already have the option to lock down all VOD programming. If they fudge with the recorded programming, call me a pirate.

ITGeeks

join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH
reply to DaleQ

Re: My FCC feedback

The better question is- Who gives the FCC the right to decide on private contracts? There will be a day that the FCC is put into their place, and this could be it. Especially if Comcast/Tivo was to get other MSOs and the ILECs in on this. Their pockets are a bit deeper and are able to do a lot more than the FCC and their rules.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to ITGeeks

Re: Where is the promised gateway?

But it's not a gateway, and you can't use your own DVR with it...

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA

Cablecard was painless for me

Two Tivo-HD boxes took less than 5 minutes to get them up and running on cablecards.

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..
reply to Nightfall

Re: Why are cablecards dying?

said by Nightfall:

My parents have a rented Comcast X1 and love it. I tried to turn them onto the Tivo, but they didn't like the idea of spending $300+ on a new Tivo system when what they have now "just works" and is fully supported by Comcast.

Yup, that's called false economy.

My two lifetime subscribed Tivo-HD boxes have long since paid for themselves in savings over Comcast's DVR rental fees.
--
Netflix is not "pushing data" onto Comcast's network, Comcast customers are "pulling data" from Netflix.

Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
said by b10010011:

said by Nightfall:

My parents have a rented Comcast X1 and love it. I tried to turn them onto the Tivo, but they didn't like the idea of spending $300+ on a new Tivo system when what they have now "just works" and is fully supported by Comcast.

Yup, that's called false economy.

My two lifetime subscribed Tivo-HD boxes have long since paid for themselves in savings over Comcast's DVR rental fees.

Still, Tivo requires a pretty large outlay of money. Many consumers are happier just getting rental boxes for the time being.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net