KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
Kearnstd
Premium Member
2014-Jul-30 2:51 pm
Has to happen eventuallyOne cannot just continue to cling to old technology just because a few may still use it. After all if we did that gas stations would still have been selling leaded gas in the 1990s for the handful of people clinging to cars that could not run unleaded. it will not be an easy pill to swallow for embedded users but its something that is going to happen. Technology does move on. |
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One example of an M2M issue"Cell phone users are easier to force-upgrade than M2M (machine to machine, or non-phone devices with embedded cellular chipsets) users." One example of the M2M issue, 2G cellular backup systems: What Does the End of 2G Mean for Your Security SystemBy Jeff Bates, Vector Security - April 1, 2014 » www.vectorsecurity.com/b ··· y-System |
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Zenit_IIfxThe system is the solution Premium Member join:2012-05-07 Purcellville, VA ·Comcast XFINITY
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T-MoT-Mobile plans to keep a small chunk of their PCS spectrum for 2G even in areas where HSDPA & LTE have been deployed. Its about 15% of the PCS spectrum will be used for 2G.
Good reasons for this - older devices, M2M systems, redundant final backup for failure of higher-level service.
Friends I have on AT&T are complaining big time about how their 3G network is going to shit in this area as they deploy more and more LTE. 100kbps or less is the norm now, AT&T's solution is to buy a new phone but that is not an option for everyone.
T-Mobiles 3G network delivers consistent speeds. And soon it will be overbuilt with a new LTE network over all the existing EDGE.
The next decade is looking good for competition in wireless, so long as Sprint stays away from T. |
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-1 recommendation |
to Kearnstd
Re: Has to happen eventuallyThese are mostly contract deals with the companies whose equipment use the network (see: OnStar and the protracted analog and then TDMA shutdown several years ago) so it is hardly a couple of grannies clinging to their 2004 phone here... |
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Imathrowaway to Kearnstd
Anon
2014-Jul-30 3:55 pm
to Kearnstd
I'm willing to bet money you wouldn't say that if an ISP announced they'd be shutting down their IP network.
Ethernet, TCP, and UDP/IP are all quite older then GSM. |
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to Zenit_IIfx
Re: T-MoLOL...they have to keep some of it up to imprison all the people who go past their monthly "unlimited" data allowance. |
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tobyTroy Mcclure join:2001-11-13 Seattle, WA |
to telcodad
Re: One example of an M2M issueI was curious about this for my alarm system, so I looked it up. I use a Teleguard TG-4 with our alarm company. » www.telguard.com/Product ··· TG4.aspx3G cellular radio. - GSM 850/1900MHz. - UMTS WCDMA FDD 850/1900MHz So I just hope I'm connected to the 3G signal now, for me it's connected to both cell and landline for backup. |
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1 recommendation |
to RadioDoc
Re: T-Mosaid by RadioDoc:LOL...they have to keep some of it up to imprison all the people who go past their monthly "unlimited" data allowance. Nope. They don't drop you to EDGE. They throttle your HSPA+ or LTE to 200k. It's actually usable. |
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Zenit_IIfxThe system is the solution Premium Member join:2012-05-07 Purcellville, VA |
Exactly. I have not gone over my 1GB limit in a while but it never knocked me off of 3G. Just throttled down to 200k which is perfectly usable for email, navigation, weather, iMessage. |
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to Kearnstd
Re: Has to happen eventuallysaid by Kearnstd:One cannot just continue to cling to old technology just because a few may still use it. After all if we did that gas stations would still have been selling leaded gas in the 1990s for the handful of people clinging to cars that could not run unleaded. You've got your analogy backward. Old cars can (and do) run on unleaded. They ran more efficiently on leaded, but it doesn't ruin them to use unleaded. Plus you can achieve a similar boost on old cars via a fuel additive. It's newer cars that would get ruined by using (now unavailable) leaded gas. |
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jdbob Premium Member join:2009-07-04 John Day, OR |
jdbob
Premium Member
2014-Jul-30 5:01 pm
CarsFord's MyFord mobile system on the Focus Electric, C-Max Energi, and possible the Fusion Energi use AT&T's 2G data. No word from Ford on what they intend to do about this. Maybe another "we're sorry" check. |
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Cabal Premium Member join:2007-01-21 |
to Kearnstd
Re: Has to happen eventuallyThe sad thing is that Nissan is still selling LEAF cars with 2G-only connectivity *today*. » www.nissanusa.com/innova ··· cle.htmlquote: *CARWINGS® requires compatible 2G GSM/GPRS cellular network provided by AT&T. 2G cellular network not available in all areas and/or available at all times. Cellular technology is evolving, and changes to cellular networks provided by independent companies are not within Nissan's control. AT&T has announced that on December 31, 2016, AT&T will terminate 2G network availability. Like other devices that rely on 2G network coverage, once the 2G network is terminated, CARWINGS will not function unless equipment replacements, upgrades, or alternative 2G network coverage are available at that time, which Nissan cannot guarantee. Nissan not responsible for associated costs that may be required for continued CARWINGS operation due to cellular network termination (including equipment upgrades, if available, or roaming charges on alternative networks).
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Rural accessThere goes our rural cell phone service! |
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Does AT&T still have EDGE-only areas? Wouldn't surprise me if they did. |
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koolman2 Premium Member join:2002-10-01 Anchorage, AK |
koolman2
Premium Member
2014-Jul-30 7:01 pm
There's a few of them around. It sounds like they plan on completing their upgrade of all service areas to 3G and drop 2G altogether. Maybe those last few areas will be getting 3G installed in the next year or two before the turndown? |
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ilikeme Premium Member join:2002-08-27 Stafford, TX |
to RadioDoc
Re: Has to happen eventuallyYea, 2G now is mostly car telematics systems, burgular/fire alarm systems, and people who have not upgraded their basic model phone in about the past 5 years.
Our alarm company, Smith Thompson, upgraded our system to HSPA a few months ago. It also uses our U-Verse landline as a second path. |
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BiggA Premium Member join:2005-11-23 Central CT |
to jdbob
Re: CarsThat's pretty pathetic. Hopefully they have an upgrade plan. |
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BiggA |
to ISurfTooMuch
Re: Rural accessThe shutdown of 2G in urban and suburban areas to reclaim spectrum for B5/B2 LTE is not mutually exclusive with continuing to operate GSM/EDGE in the middle of bum**** where they don't have Faux G or Four G to need the spectrum anyways. |
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BiggA |
to koolman2
I just looked, and there are literally a handful of EDGE-only towers left in the country on AT&T, and they are only in a couple of states. I didn't realize that they had come so far in the last couple of years... |
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Mdg Premium Member join:2009-01-10 Allentown, PA |
Mdg to BiggA
Premium Member
2014-Jul-30 8:07 pm
to BiggA
2 years ago I got upset and smashed my AT&T blackberry and exiled myself back to my old edge 2g only one. I used it for almost a year before I ordered a new one. The edge network was full of holes in the middle of the Philly area. I would drop calls in the same spots everyday that we're never a problem with the 3G network. The demise of the 2g network has already happened. |
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to Imathrowaway
Re: Has to happen eventuallysaid by Imathrowaway :I'm willing to bet money you wouldn't say that if an ISP announced they'd be shutting down their IP network. Except this is completely irrelevant to what he said. IP networks won't be going. |
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KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
to Imathrowaway
And they have all kept up as carriers for modern services. The IP network is just a physical and software set of systems to convey data. Show me 2G that can perform like 4G, you can't . however the IP network is totally scalable because it is just a method of moving the data. IP is still here because as long as you can modulate the data stream into something else you can send the IP network over anything. NASA has even linked to Mars probes with an IP network. You cannot compare a transmission technology with a protocol. Ethernet is here but we have shed older methods, I bet you would not defend a coaxial ring network over switched gigabit over cat5e. |
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to ISurfTooMuch
Re: Rural accessThere's a lot in Wisconsin and Iowa. Slowly it's getting better. I90 just after LaCrosse until the Dells is Edge to no service. Madison is LTE. Many roads that you exit off of 35 in Northwest Iowa gets you edge as well. |
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betam4x join:2002-10-12 Nashville, TN |
to Kearnstd
Re: Has to happen eventuallyThe problem is that there are a bunch of M2M devices still in use (by scientists, the government, etc) that AT&T can't simply shut down. Things like weather/temperature sensors, etc. all tend to use older 'cheaper' radios. |
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BiggA Premium Member join:2005-11-23 Central CT |
to Big Dawg 23
Re: Rural accessThat's roaming, not AT&T EDGE. That won't change until AT&T builds out their own network in that area... |
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to betam4x
Re: Has to happen eventuallysaid by betam4x:The problem is that there are a bunch of M2M devices still in use (by scientists, the government, etc) that AT&T can't simply shut down. Things like weather/temperature sensors, etc. all tend to use older 'cheaper' radios. The problem is at&t announced this 2 years ago and the shut is still 2 1/2 years away. If one can't get their shit together with 5 years heads up, that's their problem. |
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to Kearnstd
Bad analogy. Tetraethyllead was banned in gasoline because it literally poisons people and the environment! 2G GSM technology doesn't effect anyone's health or the environment. It simply occupies a small slice of spectrum that could be used for AT&T's 4G deployment. And no, shutting down 2G won't raise anyone's data caps or have any kind of noticeable impact on speeds. |
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IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA |
Alarm systemsMany people are going to be stuck replacing cellular transceivers on alarm panels. Or even worse, have to replace the entire panel if the transceiver is proprietary to the panel (such as the DSC Alexor or Ademco Lynx) where the cellular card is embedded in the panel. And since the sensors are proprietary to wireless systems, you could end up replacing the entire alarm system just because a cellular provider shuts down a network.
It can cost upwards of $500 to have an alarm company replace a cellular transceiver (parts and labor), more if the panel needs replacing. |
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KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
Kearnstd
Premium Member
2014-Jul-31 12:51 pm
However AT&T should not just keep something around because people have alarms, They are giving plenty of warning time for pennies to be saved up.
Any time you buy into a technological system that depends on an outside source for something there is the risk of that outside system being closed down to make way for the provider to offer new services. |
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IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA |
AT&T needs to realize that there are literally millions of fixed non-mobile devices that rely on their network. I think AT&T is the #1 provider of cellular service to non mobile devices that rely on the cellular network. Even when I first got a CPAP machine, the DME provider attached a radio unit (that communicated over the AT&T network) to monitor compliance.
It's not just alarms that are going to be affected. |
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