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Comments on news posted 2014-08-05 12:28:58: Last month news emerged that Verizon would begin throttling the company's unlimited LTE customers, unless they moved to a metered plan. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


ptrowski
Got Helix?
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join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:5

3 recommendations

Loved how Karl stated this....

"The company suggests that only the top 5% of network users will find themselves throttled, with around 4.7GB per month of congestion per month placing you in that metric".

So true. It should not be called Usage anymore, it is now called Congestion. Well played Karl!!!

houghe9

join:2008-02-27
Lexington Park, MD

what speed

what speed are they slowing it down to?


gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

Wireless rules

Didn't they intentionally make the wireless rules weak? Contract disputes belong in regular courts, not public FCC bluster about things they do not have authority over.

Why does Wheeler have a backbone about these things that will accomplish nothing but advertising to make him look good?
--
Let them eat FIBER!


IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

Usage doesn't mean congestion...

The two aren't related. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

I mean, just ask Sprint: any level of usage is congestion or at least looks like it.

existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2
reply to gaforces

Re: Wireless rules

Wasn't there a condition to not throttle on 700Mhz spectrum? Tmobile and Sprint don't have 700Mhz so don't have that restriction.

existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to IPPlanMan

Re: Usage doesn't mean congestion...

I realize you're upset Sprint hasn't completed Spark in DC (and justly so) but I get 20-60Mbps in completed Spark area any time of day with no congestion.

sam64

join:2006-07-31
Newtown, PA

1 recommendation

reply to ptrowski

Re: Loved how Karl stated this....

+1


karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Detroit, MI

1 edit

while I have quite a few issues with telecom policy in this country...

this is not one of them.

What's actually happening, on the ground - grandfathered VZ users in a major US city just pounding a tower with Netflix, streaming video, whatever. These towers are now congested, with other users experience severely degraded performance.

Good or bad, this is what's happening. Verizon can refuse to serve you, as a customer. They are free to end the contract at any time. Other providers have essentially killed their unlimited. I'd like to see the Droid-Life or DSLR crowd who were posting screenshots of hundreds of GB of usage try this on any other carriers. You would be stopped cold.

So with this new policy VZW is still letting you hit that tower hard, provided it's during off-peak hours. Now the real question here - isn't this highly site specific? What level of congestion (as a percentage) relative to total capacity, triggers this throttling? Isn't this dependent on what kind of backhaul the site has and whether AWS is being used at the site?

Time will tell, and we will need to stress test and crowdsource the data, either here or on Howard Forums.


karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Detroit, MI
reply to existenz

Re: Wireless rules

I recall that case pertaining to tethering, not network management - »lifehacker.com/5933152/the-right ··· s-to-you


IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1
reply to existenz

Re: Usage doesn't mean congestion...

Sounds good to me, but as the saying goes: "all politics is local".


IPPlanMan
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Washington, DC
kudos:1

2 recommendations

reply to karpodiem

Re: while I have quite a few issues with telecom policy in this country...

It would be nice if they were transparent as to what loading/congestion level triggers this.

Furthermore, if they really want to do this, they should throttle everybody, more everything included.

Or, throttle your unlimited customers once they reach your top tier of data based on congestion...
--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army

ashman454

join:2004-03-10
Manassas, VA

2 recommendations

reply to ptrowski

Re: Loved how Karl stated this....

If it's Cough Cough...Congestion...then why aren't they throttling the pay per usage plan people who pay for 10 gigs or 20 gigs or ETC!!


ptrowski
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kudos:5
reply to karpodiem

Re: while I have quite a few issues with telecom policy in this country...

So let me ask a question. If that is true, how does that congestion mysteriously disappear when moved to a tier plan? AT&T is the same way....


ptrowski
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reply to ashman454

Re: Loved how Karl stated this....

Exactly.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to IPPlanMan

Re: while I have quite a few issues with telecom policy in this country...

said by IPPlanMan:

It would be nice if they were transparent as to what loading/congestion level triggers this.

said by Network Optimization Practices :

To optimize our network, we manage data connection speeds for a small subset of customers - the top 5% of data users on unlimited data plans - and only in places and at times when the network is experiencing high demand.

Seems fairly clear.

ashman454

join:2004-03-10
Manassas, VA

1 recommendation

reply to existenz

Re: Wireless rules

Yes, they did.....

»www.fcc.gov/document/verizon-wir ··· tigation

or the juicy bits

Verizon Wireless offers customers its 4G LTE service on C Block spectrum. Verizon Wireless bid at
auction to acquire that spectrum, understanding that it was accompanied by open device and application
obligations. Specifically, licensees offering service on C Block spectrum “shall not deny, limit, or restrict
the ability of their customers to use the devices and applications of their choice on the licensee’s C Block
network,” subject to narrow exceptions.
P. Michele Ellison, Enforcement Bureau Chief, said, “This case was the first of its kind in enforcing the
pro-consumer open access obligations of the C Block rules. It underscores the agency’s commitment to
guarantee consumers the benefits

openbox9
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Germany
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reply to ptrowski

Re: while I have quite a few issues with telecom policy in this country...

It doesn't, but you pay for the privilege to be throttled by the congestion like everyone else.


karpodiem
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Detroit, MI

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reply to ptrowski
how can this be known if the throttling policy hasn't been enabled yet?


IPPlanMan
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join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
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reply to openbox9
No it isn't. What tower congestion level triggers this?


karpodiem
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join:2008-05-20
Detroit, MI
reply to openbox9
actually it's not. There are two components to this - the maximum number of simultaneous data connections to the tower (users) and the total bandwidth the tower has. You conceivably could have 5 unmetered connections using all of the tower bandwidth (backhaul).

You could also have 5000 'metered' users on a tower, which is the maximum number of users the tower supports.

What percentage of total capacity, for each of the two variables, yields throttling? Verizon has yet to say.


cowboy
So Much For Subtlety
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Louisville, KY
reply to karpodiem
Just ran speedtest here, it would seem to say it is already happening, and not just for those using 4+GB (I average ~2GB/mo)!

4.24Mbps up, 2.77Mbps down

That is in Louisville, KY with a 4G signal :-(
--
Richard Nelson


Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH
reply to openbox9
That's not tower loading/congestion level. That's an individual's overall usage. Two completely different things.


IPPlanMan
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join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Exactly.

Usage on a tiered data plan is usage.
Usage on an unlimited data plan is congestion.

/snark


karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Detroit, MI
reply to cowboy
I...don't think that has anything to do with throttling. That's just the performance in your area at this time.

Do you have older speedtests to compare this to? Perhaps VZ is doing work in the area?


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
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1 recommendation

reply to ashman454

Re: Loved how Karl stated this....

its all about the benjamins!


ev

@74.140.91.x
reply to karpodiem

Re: while I have quite a few issues with telecom policy in this country...

Yeah, except for that whole part about them intentionally neglecting wirelines in a major US city like NYC -- practically forcing people over to wireless.

Verizon refuses to upgrade miles and miles and miles of copper to fiber. They should least spend a buck or three of their insane profits to throw up more sites in heavily congested areas and call it a day.

But they don't want to do that, either.


tito79

join:2010-03-14
Brewster, NY
kudos:1
reply to karpodiem
I heard they started with there own employees already to phase out unlimited.

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·ooma
·Verizon FiOS
reply to IPPlanMan
Tower Friction. You need to pay more for the tower to send you the bits faster.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN5UR3Wf ··· UR3Wf33o

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

2 recommendations

reply to openbox9
The level depends upon the situation on the sector. It appears they put the users into two QoS buckets. The "paying" undergo normal traffic management, and the "freeloaders" get de-prioritized into a lower tier. WHAT that level of QoS IS has not been divulged.

Also I can somewhat agree with the logic, what is appalling is further down in the FAQ they mention that if you get "labeled" a bad actor you could be put into the penalty box (under throttle conditions) for up to 60 days. What is also disturbing is that like the other yoyos if you say use 30GB at 2AM when nobody is on the cell, this still can put you in the penalty box during the day when say there are more users on. So really its looking more like AT&T draconian model every day, without the fixed hard cap.

The whole thing seems fairly arbitrary, which these guys like because the whole reason for this is to frustrate users to move to the vastly overpriced plans. At that point you are better off going MVNO and if you don't like the arbitrary rules, you go elsewhere.


sbrook
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join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
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2 recommendations

Everybody's doing it ... trying to rape the customer any way they can

We've seen this in Canada for wire based internet services.

Originally it was "congestion", and there was ... but as technology improved it became more and more apparent that throttling was purely for monetization and our regulator realized this and required that ISPs clearly state the traffic management protocols and make them temporary.

The result = throttling went away and the emphasis on caps resumed as a way to "reduce congestion", which has been proven a bald faced lie, since congestion is essentially an instantaneous problem where caps are a monthly process. People downloading when others aren't about are still getting hit by caps, and congestion during the peak hours continues.

They're both just a way to rake more money from the consumer.