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Comments on news posted 2014-08-05 12:28:58: Last month news emerged that Verizon would begin throttling the company's unlimited LTE customers, unless they moved to a metered plan. ..

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gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned) to ashman454

Member

to ashman454

Re: Wireless rules

So the FCC does have authority. Wheeler is doing his job and Verizon is trying to squirm out of the agreement claiming it's network management.
Thank you for the correction and understanding of the details.

koitsu
MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
Humax BGW320-500

koitsu to sbrook

MVM

to sbrook

Re: Everybody's doing it ... trying to rape the customer any way they can

quote:
"This practice has been widely accepted with little or no controversy," writes Grillo.
Apparently Kathleen Grillo was not aware of the Comcast debacle. Yes, that had slightly different ramifications (injecting falsified TCP RST opens a humongous can of worms), but Comcast's goal was to throttle.

I haven't forgotten you, funchords See Profile!

So no, it is not "widely accepted with little or no controversy". It's "commonly used" but often with a large amount of controversy if applied to core pieces of infrastructure or major points of ingress/egress (versus, say, throttling an individual customer who is behaving badly / destroying things for everyone else).
houghe9
join:2008-02-27
Lexington Park, MD

houghe9

Member

i am.so tired

" Verizon can refuse to serve you, as a customer. They are free to end the contract at any time. "

I am so tired of hearing that. I should thank them for using ky because hey they could be screwing you without? Unlimited is unlimited. They should be required to sell it or quit not continue to bastardize it and still call it unlimited.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to karpodiem

Member

to karpodiem

Re: while I have quite a few issues with telecom policy in this country...

said by karpodiem:

. Verizon can refuse to serve you, as a customer. They are free to end the contract at any time. Other providers have essentially killed their unlimited. I'd like to see the Droid-Life or DSLR crowd who were posting screenshots of hundreds of GB of usage try this on any other carriers. You would be stopped cold.

In that case Verizon is free to cut off service to all their unlimited customers. That would only alienate... 22% of their customer base? I'm sure their shareholders wouldn't mind a massive, unprecedented overnight revenue drop.

AT&T is the only other carrier to get rid of unlimited. As for people posting screenshots, you obviously haven't perused Sprint or T-mobile forums before. People do the exact same thing there. You really think Verizon's users are somehow special?
sonicmerlin

sonicmerlin to openbox9

Member

to openbox9
Your words make no sense. Singling out only unlimited users is an obvious ploy to shift them over to tiered plans. That's artificial network management.
broadbandmav
join:2014-01-08
New Rochelle, NY

broadbandmav to IPPlanMan

Member

to IPPlanMan

Re: Usage doesn't mean congestion...

You would think Sprint would be happy that someone is using their network...
broadbandmav

broadbandmav to houghe9

Member

to houghe9

Re: i am.so tired

Their goal is to "tick off" the unlimited customers until they leave or switch to Share Your Wallet plans.

Ending device subsidies on grandfathered plans, no free tethering, and now throttling what you pay for

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan to broadbandmav

Member

to broadbandmav

Re: Usage doesn't mean congestion...

They are... Sort of.

karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium Member
join:2008-05-20
Troy, MI

karpodiem to sonicmerlin

Premium Member

to sonicmerlin

Re: while I have quite a few issues with telecom policy in this country...

said by sonicmerlin:

said by karpodiem:

. Verizon can refuse to serve you, as a customer. They are free to end the contract at any time. Other providers have essentially killed their unlimited. I'd like to see the Droid-Life or DSLR crowd who were posting screenshots of hundreds of GB of usage try this on any other carriers. You would be stopped cold.

In that case Verizon is free to cut off service to all their unlimited customers. That would only alienate... 22% of their customer base? I'm sure their shareholders wouldn't mind a massive, unprecedented overnight revenue drop.

AT&T is the only other carrier to get rid of unlimited. As for people posting screenshots, you obviously haven't perused Sprint or T-mobile forums before. People do the exact same thing there. You really think Verizon's users are somehow special?

can you provide a citation to Verizon still having 22% of their postpaid customers still on grandfathered unlimited and link a screenshot a Sprint/T-Mobile/AT&T (any of the three would work) customer using more than 50GB in a month?

Verizon would _love_ to get rid of a most of these unlimited users or put them on metered data. There is no in-between, and they have no intention of keeping the prior status quo with respect to unlimited data. They'll lose a good chunk sure. They've been losing post-paid subs for two quarters now and adding tablets to offset this (wtf?), because the public is too stupid to realize that they can tether their phone to their tablet, and love free tablets on a 2-year agreement.

ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Danbury, CT

ieolus to karpodiem

Member

to karpodiem
How is it that unlimited customers on that tower can successfully "pound it" with Netflix or whatever... but those on limited plans for some reason have degraded performance? Some kind of magic is happening on that tower!
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9 to karpodiem

Premium Member

to karpodiem
I would suspect that if there's contention, the throttling engages.
openbox9

openbox9 to sonicmerlin

Premium Member

to sonicmerlin
What exactly do you think my words imply

karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium Member
join:2008-05-20
Troy, MI

karpodiem to ieolus

Premium Member

to ieolus
Where are you making that inference from? Anyone can congest a tower, I think you and I both know it's more likely that an unlimited user will do it since he has no economic incentive not to do so. Certainly a large group of metered users could congest a tower. It's just more likely that the tower becomes congested quicker when you have a non-zero number of unlimited users utilizing the tower.
AmericanMan
Premium Member
join:2013-12-28
united state

AmericanMan to karpodiem

Premium Member

to karpodiem
said by karpodiem:

link a screenshot a Sprint/T-Mobile/AT&T (any of the three would work) customer using more than 50GB in a month?

»Hello to all who are inside the coverage area for T-Mobile LTE

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

1 recommendation

aaronwt to karpodiem

Premium Member

to karpodiem
said by karpodiem:

Where are you making that inference from? Anyone can congest a tower, I think you and I both know it's more likely that an unlimited user will do it since he has no economic incentive not to do so. Certainly a large group of metered users could congest a tower. It's just more likely that the tower becomes congested quicker when you have a non-zero number of unlimited users utilizing the tower.

Whether I am metered or unlimited, I am going to use the same amount of data. I use what I use. It won't change anything on a metered plan. Only with Unlimited I am currently paying around $70 a month after taxes. And if I had to switch to the Verizon metered pricing, I would be paying close to $140 a month after taxes.

Which is why if Verizon does get rid of unlimited I will need to switch to another carrier. My price would go up no matter what. But I would rather pay less on another carrier than pay close to $140 a month on Verizon.

karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium Member
join:2008-05-20
Troy, MI

karpodiem

Premium Member

said by aaronwt:

said by karpodiem:

Where are you making that inference from? Anyone can congest a tower, I think you and I both know it's more likely that an unlimited user will do it since he has no economic incentive not to do so. Certainly a large group of metered users could congest a tower. It's just more likely that the tower becomes congested quicker when you have a non-zero number of unlimited users utilizing the tower.

Whether I am metered or unlimited, I am going to use the same amount of data. I use what I use. It won't change anything on a metered plan. Only with Unlimited I am currently paying around $70 a month after taxes. And if I had to switch to the Verizon metered pricing, I would be paying close to $140 a month after taxes.

Which is why if Verizon does get rid of unlimited I will need to switch to another carrier. My price would go up no matter what. But I would rather pay less on another carrier than pay close to $140 a month on Verizon.

well unfortunately there are other unlimited users who are not as virtuous as you are on limiting their consumption. It's like offering someone unlimited electricity, water, or gasoline, for a flat monthly. Bandwidth isn't an unlimited commodity at the distribution level closest to the user (tower capacity)

ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Danbury, CT
Netgear R6400

ieolus to karpodiem

Member

to karpodiem
said by karpodiem:

Where are you making that inference from? Anyone can congest a tower, I think you and I both know it's more likely that an unlimited user will do it since he has no economic incentive not to do so. Certainly a large group of metered users could congest a tower. It's just more likely that the tower becomes congested quicker when you have a non-zero number of unlimited users utilizing the tower.

I dunno, maybe from your post...

"What's actually happening, on the ground - grandfathered VZ users in a major US city just pounding a tower with Netflix, streaming video, whatever. These towers are now congested, with other users experience severely degraded performance."

Now, since you changed your mind and now you say anyone can congest a tower, how come Verizon only is out to punish unlimited customers with this policy?

karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium Member
join:2008-05-20
Troy, MI

karpodiem

Premium Member

said by ieolus:

said by karpodiem:

Where are you making that inference from? Anyone can congest a tower, I think you and I both know it's more likely that an unlimited user will do it since he has no economic incentive not to do so. Certainly a large group of metered users could congest a tower. It's just more likely that the tower becomes congested quicker when you have a non-zero number of unlimited users utilizing the tower.

I dunno, maybe from your post...

"What's actually happening, on the ground - grandfathered VZ users in a major US city just pounding a tower with Netflix, streaming video, whatever. These towers are now congested, with other users experience severely degraded performance."

Now, since you changed your mind and now you say anyone can congest a tower, how come Verizon only is out to punish unlimited customers with this policy?

They're trying to prevent a situation where a handful of unlimited customers in a city setting are completely saturating a tower. They want to get in a situation where the economics of adding additional capacity isn't influenced on unlimited users saturating a tower.

They want to be able to say - "Tower X is in New York City is at 95% capacity with ALL users, along with any unlimited users who may be throttled and using it as well. We should probably upgrade the capacity in this area"

vs.

"Tower X in New York City is at 95% capacity, with 4 grandfathered unlimited users utilizing 60% of the backhaul capacity."

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to IPPlanMan

Member

to IPPlanMan
"It would be nice if they were transparent as to what loading/congestion level triggers this."

They are not going to give their competition's marketing monkeys any help.
houghe9
join:2008-02-27
Lexington Park, MD

houghe9 to broadbandmav

Member

to broadbandmav

Re: i am.so tired

agreed i am just tired of hearing the opinion that because they could take it away that it is ok to let them screw me. that opinion is totally invalid.

i have a boring story of getting raped by verizon i would like to share.

my kids were on a 2gb share everything because it is great for every customer. my son was streaming youtube late on a friday night through wifi and fell asleep. his mom was cleaning the next morning and accidentally unplugged that router so it dropped to verizon data. i start getting alerts that the data was almost over the limit that will be 15 dollars or 10 if you upgrade...feeling a twinge in my backside and remembering prison movies i decided to pay the 10. about an a little while later i get another warning..again prison movies i pay and again it happened then he finally woke up. never once did they give me an option to have it stopped or cutoff for the month. but hey i saved 15.00.
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