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Comments on news posted 2014-08-22 10:01:03: Chalk this up as yet another fine example of Cox Communications customer support. After a homeowner ordered Cox TV/Internet, a Cox employee came by the house to install the service. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


Insurance

@73.160.110.x

1 recommendation

LOL - fall thru ceiling from attic

This broke me up. Obviously the homeowner knows nothing about unfinished attics with no flooring between beams. And also NEVER agreeing to working alongside a workman doing work inside the house.

Did the homeowner even check to see if the COX employee(or more likely a subcontractor) had the required insurance that every state demands be carried by workmen working in homes?



inteller
Sociopaths always win.

join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK

i was asked to go into attic as well

Cox installer wanted me to see how the wiring was "degraded" or whatever. Wasn't asked to help, but they certainly thought it was ok for me to follow them.
--
"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!"



journeysquid

join:2014-08-01

3 recommendations

Ceiling, not roof

The roof is what sits on the top of your house. FYI.


amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable

what?

People need to get that straight. You may feel that since the homeowner stepped onto the ground on the ceiling, he was at fault.

What? I'm not at all clear on this. If a person (who the article says is a "fitness enthusiast" - whatever that means) doesn't know their own attic, or the dangers involved, how is this Cox's fault?

If someone comes over to your house and says "go plug this fork into an outlet" ...you're not responsible for your own actions?

I'm glad this person and his kids are OK.

Should the installer have bolted? No. Should the employee be reprimanded somehow? Yes. Should Cox pay? ...I don't personally believe so, in this case...

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Been there

I was having the decking of my roof replaced.

On my way home from work my wife called to tell me a roofer fell through my daughters bedroom ceiling.

By the time I got home 12 minutes later, they dropped the circular saw through the ceiling of my kitchen.

Morons.



TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to amungus

Re: what?

said by amungus:

People need to get that straight. You may feel that since the homeowner stepped onto the ground on the ceiling, he was at fault.

What? I'm not at all clear on this. If a person (who the article says is a "fitness enthusiast" - whatever that means) doesn't know their own attic, or the dangers involved, how is this Cox's fault?

It depends on what you consider common sense. Not sticking a fork in an outlet is, IMO, common sense and something you'd learn before the age of 5. Walking around in an attic is a bit different, IMO, and not something that immediately comes across as a danger. Everyone has at least some experience with electricity (even if said experience is limited to plugging/unplugging things and turning circuit breakers on/off) and knows it to be dangerous, while not everyone has experience with attics, wiring, etc. (I'd say many, if not most, don't do that kind of work themselves and would just call a professional when necessary.)

In this case, you have a Cox cable technician, who the customer is assuming to be a professional with this kind of work (after all, presumably they've been trained on cable installation, working in attics, etc. and unless it's their first month on the job have probably installed cable and gone through attics many times before), asking the customer to do something. This "something" does not immediately look dangerous, so the customer agrees to assist. The technician should have asked the customer if he was familiar with working in an attic, and if not, provided some basic instruction on how things are done, the dangers (falling through), etc. If the technician said "OK, stick a fork in this electric outlet to help me," I think Cox would probably have a reasonable case for this being a joke and the customer should not have taken that seriously. But the tech going into the attic and saying "hey, come with me, I need help up here?" Cox is responsible.

All of us on this site know cable technicians, particularly contractors, vary in quality a lot and we'd be reluctant to take any such advice from them. But remember the _average_ person is a bit different and does not specialize in such matters. Cox themselves advertises the "professional" quality of their installation, and I've seen several other providers doing the same.


gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

1 recommendation

reply to amungus

It's a colossal screw up and a big no no to have homeowners working on a contracted job unless it's stipulated in the contract and they are covered on insurance for it.

Cox is responsible for their employees, they will pay.
--
Let them eat FIBER!



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

roof? more like ceiling...

Home owners insurance just went up!

Why>>>>>????
--
Splat



Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks

join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO

4 recommendations

Attic Tip

Never leave the joist.


Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to gaforces

Re: what?

they are not employees. They are 3rd party contractors / sub contractors.

and this is the same COX that had a Cable Guy Kill some ones Son that was an contractor / sub contractor.

»consumerist.com/2011/10/05/coupl···eir-son/



IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Installer damaged my home once

I was having Comcast Digital Voice installed once (that I no longer have) and the installer broke the wire to a doorbell on the transformer on the service panel. I fixed it myself.
--
Stop the Comcast-Time Warner merger, I'd rather Time Warner buy out Comcast.



wiggie116

join:2013-10-31
Pittsfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

1 recommendation

Wow

Being in the business myself (not for cox) I've had customers that feel like they are attached to my tool belt. They will follow you everywhere go even out to the van. Just recently I was working on roof that required a fully extended 28 foot ladder. I'm drilling into the Facia and I look up and the customers right there, no safety gear nothing but flip flops! He also used my ladder. I told him if he wanted go his roof that's fine but please use your own ladder. I tried explaining how dangerous it was to be on steep pitched roof with no safety gear. I was thinking if he ever fell off somehow they would blame me. Most people will not follow you every step you take. That being said, he/she should of never asked for help in the first place. Also leaving the customers home after they just feel through the attic is just wrong! There is always two stories the techs, and the customers.



TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

2 recommendations

reply to Joe12345678

Re: what?

The employee/contractor designation does not matter. Cox contracted with the customer, so Cox is ultimately responsible. Cox can take it up with their contractor but that's a separate issue and the customer is not a party to that.


Poetique

join:2007-08-05
Birmingham, AL

1 edit

9 recommendations

Mind. Blown.

Specifically, the homeowner says that the Cox employee asked her to follow him into the attic to help her.

You may feel that since the homeowner stepped onto the ground on the ceiling, he was at fault.

A Cox spokesperson claims Levi took it upon himself to follow the cable installer into the attic, at least that's what the installer told his Cox supervisors.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah so... I'm completely mindfupped as to the gender of the parties in question here.

Apparently the female Cox employee asked the female homeowner to help her. But also apparently, no females were actually involved in the incident lol.

Or maybe 4 people were in the attic, which is probably a general nono in general

Perhaps... Ghosts!? :O


AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
reply to amungus

Re: what?

The homeowner is responsible, even though I'm sure that will be an unpopular view on this thread. What's more sad than the Cox installer running off is that we often seem to feel it is somebody else's responsibility when our own actions have undesirable results.



Overtkill
Premium
join:2005-09-21
Magna, UT

Lesson learned here?

This is why you install plywood into the attic to walk/crawl on, just in case you actually have to get in there to do anything. Wisdom of grandpa from childhood. What a person may spend on the plywood is less than dealing with the hassle of a single fall through repair, and any person can do the plywood thing with little more than a cordless drill and a box of grabber screws.

BTW, most people who follow their installers around are mainly concerned the dude is going to break something in the first place. I for one don't do this, but I do walk through every step with them when they are done, to inspect their work. Most of those guys won't mind showing you their work if they have done it right. If a job requires help, those installers need to bring another man along instead of pestering customers to be their helpers. Most customers wouldn't know the first thing about what those guys doing, beyond drilling holes in their homes.



atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Conroe, TX

RE

It's not funny but when I read this I imagined the homeowner falling from the attic through the ceiling and landing on the floor and then it turned into a life alert commercial with the woman calling out for someone to please help her.


rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

2 recommendations

reply to TAZ

Re: what?

said by TAZ:

The technician should have asked the customer if he was familiar with working in an attic, and if not, provided some basic instruction on how things are done, the dangers (falling through), etc.

I doubt any service company would condone their employee asking the customer to get involved in any part of the service beyond verifying the status of the job when finished.

Any other involvement is a potential liability disaster -- especially if the customer is even remotely involved in anything dangerous.

While it may be a convenient for the customer to become involved so their service need can be satisfied without rescheduling the appointment, the service company is still at risk of involving the customer in the repair and even if nothing else, the BAD PRESS when something unexpected occurs.

I recently had a water heater replaced and offered to help the associate remove it from his van. He politely refused and mentioned it's for my protection. I understood and let him do his thing.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to cableties

Re: roof? more like ceiling...

Unless they file a claim, the insurance company isn't going to raise their rates.



TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to rradina

Re: what?

said by rradina:

said by TAZ:

The technician should have asked the customer if he was familiar with working in an attic, and if not, provided some basic instruction on how things are done, the dangers (falling through), etc.

I doubt any service company would condone their employee asking the customer to get involved in any part of the service beyond verifying the status of the job when finished.

I agree, the tech's actions were probably against company policy, but that doesn't change the fact that it happened. The customer still needs to be made whole and Cox can take it up with their employee/contractor.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to Overtkill

Re: Lesson learned here?

Modern houses use 2x4, prefabbed roof trusses on 18 or 24" centers with blown insulation. That's going to make it tough to install plywood without compromising the insulation's R value. It's possible but beyond the simplicity you describe. You'll likely need 1" plywood with massive spacers on the trusses or you'll have to overlay the plywood with rolled insulation that you can move out of the way when you need access. These trusses also don't lend themselves to installing plywood as they have many angled boards that form a reinforced grid so the 2x4 lumber can support the weight of the singles.


Deremus

join:2011-09-01
Chandler, AZ
reply to Overtkill

This touches on the point I've been wondering about (aside from the gender confusion...).

If the install job requires someone to help the installer, Why wouldn't they bring an extra worker? Seriously. I understand that a homeowner might want to peek over their shoulder to make sure stuff isn't unneccessarily broken, but unless it's explicitly stated or agreed ahead of time (in writing) that this will be some sort of self-install or that the customer contributes to labor, the installer has no business asking a non-employee/contractor for help.

Yes, it's nice if the homeowner/customer ensures attic access is unobstructed, but if the workman realizes that he's going need an extra after they arrive, it's much more appropriate (I would even say required) to go and make arrangements to come back when they have the proper resources. If they show up having known ahead of time they would need more help, we have another problem on our hands.

I also get that people like to be 'helpful'. It's natural. This is why I'm not sure who would be more at fault in this situation. The worker for 'asking' or the homeowner for 'complying'. My point is; this should not be happening in the first place, because the workers should never ask, and the homeowner should never 'help'.



wiggie116

join:2013-10-31
Pittsfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

1 edit
reply to Overtkill

After the install is complete it's mandatory to perform a " walk through" that way you can explain your work and have the customer sign the work order.

I do not mind customers following me every step that I take. It's when they talk your ear off. That's when mistakes are made. Personally it's hard for me to concentrate on the work. Some of my coworkers love to talk and work and that's fine. It's my personal preference

I also enjoy interacting with customers. It should be done before and after installation I believe.

I also don't understand why he/she would have the customer hold the cable. I think Cox uses Comscope. I believe the coax is in a box with the reel built in, pulls perfectly. Unless it was the "drop" which is not in a box. In that case the coax would be on a cable caddie.



mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:12

2 recommendations

reply to wiggie116

Re: Wow

said by wiggie116:

There is always two stories the techs, and the customers.

Actually there are 4. The techs, the customers, what actually happened, and what the settlement/verdict says.

/M


Darknessfall
Premium
join:2012-08-17
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to atuarre

Re: RE

said by atuarre:

It's not funny but when I read this I imagined the homeowner falling from the attic through the ceiling and landing on the floor and then it turned into a life alert commercial with the woman calling out for someone to please help her.

"I've fallen and I can't get up!"

uberjon

join:2010-02-10
Kane, PA
reply to wiggie116

Re: Wow

When I have an installer at my home I too follow them everywhere, except up a ladder.. I wait a bit away from the ladder on the ground. A person shouldn't be going up a ladder without someone on the ground. (if i was inside fiddling my thumbs i couldn't call for help if he fell...)

for the OP. i would think running suggests the installer did ask for help.. therefore cox should pay.


tommy2text0

join:2011-05-24
Stratford, CT

1 recommendation

Kind of silly

If you are a homeowner and you have never been in your attic that is a little weird. I would say it is common knowledge that if you walk in between the rafters in an attic then you are obviously going to fall through, sheet rock or plaster ceiling is obviously not going to hold a person's weight. It's shady that the tech took off though. If the tech fell through Cox is responsible, if the homeowner fell through then it's on them. The tech didn't force the homeowner to help and he didn't push the homeowner over and make them fall through. Even if you have somehow never managed to ever need to go into an attic in your entire life (kind of unbelievable), as soon as you get up there it's obviously apparent if there is a complete floor or not.



pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1

2 recommendations

reply to Topmounter

Re: Attic Tip

Attic Top #2:

Plywood is cheap.



HunterZ

join:2003-07-16
Kent, WA

1 recommendation

reply to wiggie116

Re: Wow

said by wiggie116:

Being in the business myself (not for cox) I've had customers that feel like they are attached to my tool belt. They will follow you everywhere go even out to the van.

As a homeowner, trying to figure out how much attention I'm expected to pay (or not) to the contractor is often a bit awkward. I don't want them to feel like I'm crowding/micromanaging them or not trusting them to do their job, but I also don't want them to think that I don't care. I've also had movers rip off a bunch of my stuff before during a job, so I'm leery of letting people be around my house completely unsupervised.

In any case, I leave the dangerous stuff to the professionals. That's what I'm paying them (or the service provider that called them out) for in the first place! I've never had a contractor ask for my help; I would probably hold that against them or their employer as being a bit unprofessional, as they ought to show up with everything they need to do the job (including additional personnel if it turns out to be a multi-person job).

If they need me to inspect something in a potentially hazardous area, they could always snap some pictures with a cell phone or whatever and then show them to me. That's the way home inspectors, roofers, and other contractors have done things for me in the recent past.


HunterZ

join:2003-07-16
Kent, WA
reply to mackey

At that point you may as well count the tech's employer(s) as well.